43796 réponses à ce sujet

[Errol Dnamyx]

If parents can correct genetic disposition for near sightedness in utero (as described in Ashleys backstory), they can probably influence the eye and hair color of their children too.

[Prudii Aden]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...

I've been reading Ascension and blue eyes are described as "nonexistent." Miranda doesn't strike me as the type to use artificial tinting. Dad's creepiness factor just went up another notch.

I don't take that as canon. Doesn't seem likely blue eyes will vanish within 150 years. Me = ignore. BTW, you can give your Shepard blue eyes, what about that?

Anyway, Miranda's eyes are beautiful. Genetically perhaps a throwback if you take Ascension as canon, but not in the least inhuman. The world would still recognize them as what had once been in the human gene pool. Special, yes. Creepy, no.

Edit:
The author of the books should become better acquainted with biology. Taking such half-knowledge and writing an SF novel (or gaming universe) only yields disastrous results. Don't get me started.....

I was talking with a friend of mine in the pub about this last night funnily enough - in layman's terms, the gene/genes for blue eyes are recessive - i.e. unless they're paired with a similar gene/genes, nothing happens. They'll be gone in something like 5000 years or so (if I recall the article correctly!)

[Prudii Aden]

gutty47 wrote...

Vyndael wrote...

Is it bad that pic made me write this oddball scene?

Crewman Matthews moves hastily towards the elevator...
"EDI! Whats wrong with the elevator? Its not moving."
"There is no malfunction with the elevator Crewman Matthews. The emergency stop button has been activated."
"Emergency stop? Why didn't you tell someone?"
"There is no emergency."
"But you just said someone pulled the emergency stop button... look I'm not arguing with an AI just call Shepard."
"Commander Shepard is the one who activated the emergency stop."
"What? Then call Lawson. We have to get him out of there!"
"But there is no emergency. Besides, Operative Lawson is in the elevator with Commander Shepard."
"Why wouldn't it be an emergency? And what is Shepard doin-- oooohhh. Man, I hope they hurry up cause I really need to use the bathroom."

I have no idea why I felt like I needed to write that... considering I haven't written anything since I left highschool.

Going back more than a few pages...

I've no idea why Love in An Elevator just came to mind...

[Ieldra]

Prudii Aden wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...

I've been reading Ascension and blue eyes are described as "nonexistent." Miranda doesn't strike me as the type to use artificial tinting. Dad's creepiness factor just went up another notch.

I don't take that as canon. Doesn't seem likely blue eyes will vanish within 150 years. Me = ignore. BTW, you can give your Shepard blue eyes, what about that?

Anyway, Miranda's eyes are beautiful. Genetically perhaps a throwback if you take Ascension as canon, but not in the least inhuman. The world would still recognize them as what had once been in the human gene pool. Special, yes. Creepy, no.

Edit:
The author of the books should become better acquainted with biology. Taking such half-knowledge and writing an SF novel (or gaming universe) only yields disastrous results. Don't get me started.....

I was talking with a friend of mine in the pub about this last night funnily enough - in layman's terms, the gene/genes for blue eyes are recessive - i.e. unless they're paired with a similar gene/genes, nothing happens. They'll be gone in something like 5000 years or so (if I recall the article correctly!)

Quite correct. That's why I said "unlike to vanish within 150 years" instead of "unlikely to vanish." Recessive or not, it will take more time than five or six generations for that to happen. Quite a lot more, though I don't know how good the 5000 years are as an estimate.
Which means that statement in Ascension is nonsense. Unless there's another reason for blue eyes having died out.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 mars 2010 - 05:22 .

[jtav]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...

I've been reading Ascension and blue eyes are described as "nonexistent." Miranda doesn't strike me as the type to use artificial tinting. Dad's creepiness factor just went up another notch.

I don't take that as canon. Doesn't seem likely blue eyes will vanish within 150 years. Me = ignore. BTW, you can give your Shepard blue eyes, what about that?

Anyway, Miranda's eyes are beautiful. Genetically perhaps a throwback if you take Ascension as canon, but not in the least inhuman. The world would still recognize them as what had once been in the human gene pool. Special, yes. Creepy, no.

Edit:
The author of the books should become better acquainted with biology. Taking such half-knowledge and writing an SF novel (or gaming universe) only yields disastrous results. Don't get me started.....

The timeline already makes no sense. I've learned to just roll with the inconsistancies. Otherwise, I'd have to throw out half the game when writing. I never said Miranda was creepy or inhuman. The fact that Mr. Lawson chose for his daughter to have blue eyes is what's frightening. She's, as you said, a throwback to a time before humanity  "started losing their genetic diversity (Kahlee majes the connection in the novel)." And Miranda was even originally supposed to be blonde. Dad's a classical eugenicist. 

Modifié par jtav, 26 mars 2010 - 05:30 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...

I've been reading Ascension and blue eyes are described as "nonexistent." Miranda doesn't strike me as the type to use artificial tinting. Dad's creepiness factor just went up another notch.

I don't take that as canon. Doesn't seem likely blue eyes will vanish within 150 years. Me = ignore. BTW, you can give your Shepard blue eyes, what about that?

Anyway, Miranda's eyes are beautiful. Genetically perhaps a throwback if you take Ascension as canon, but not in the least inhuman. The world would still recognize them as what had once been in the human gene pool. Special, yes. Creepy, no.

Edit:
The author of the books should become better acquainted with biology. Taking such half-knowledge and writing an SF novel (or gaming universe) only yields disastrous results. Don't get me started.....

The timeline already makes no sense. I've learned to just roll with the inconsistancies. Otherwise, I'd have to throw out half the game when writing. I never said Miranda was creepy or inhuman. The fact that Mr. Lawson chose for his daughter to have blue eyes is what's frightening. She's, as you said, a throwback to a time before humanity  "started losing their genetic diversity (Kahlee majes the connection in the novel)." And Miranda was even originally supposed to be blonde. Dad's a classical eugenicist. 

I see nothing wrong with eugenics in principle - its the specific aims and methods that make it good or bad. Why should I care whether other people manipulate their children's genes for blue eyes and blonde hair? If it weren't for the historical accident of ****sm, I wouldn't think about it twice.
Regarding the timeline: There are aspects of the timeline you can't just ignore, nonsensical or not. But details like blue eyes having vanished from the gene pool I find easy to ignore.

Edit:
The things they censor on these forums.... Sometimes I wonder if I should go somewhere else. Censorship is evil.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 mars 2010 - 05:41 .

[Valmy]

Prudii Aden wrote...
I was talking with a friend of mine in the pub about this last night funnily enough - in layman's terms, the gene/genes for blue eyes are recessive - i.e. unless they're paired with a similar gene/genes, nothing happens. They'll be gone in something like 5000 years or so (if I recall the article correctly!)

Um...something does happen.  Those people become carriers for blue eyes.  Recessive genes are no rarer than dominant genes they are just expressed less.  Why would they vanish anymore than any other recessive or dominant trait?  That makes no sense.  Every gene should vanish then if one is.

For that to make sense to me dominant genes would have exterminate recessive ones somehow...

Modifié par Valmy, 26 mars 2010 - 05:59 .

[Prudii Aden]

Valmy wrote...

Prudii Aden wrote...
I was talking with a friend of mine in the pub about this last night funnily enough - in layman's terms, the gene/genes for blue eyes are recessive - i.e. unless they're paired with a similar gene/genes, nothing happens. They'll be gone in something like 5000 years or so (if I recall the article correctly!)

Um...something does happen.  Those people become carriers for blue eyes.  Recessive genes are no rarer than dominant traits they are just expressed less.  Why would they vanish anymore than any other recessive or dominant trait?  That makes no sense.  Every gene should vanish then if one is.

To get a new child, each parent donates 50% of their genetic makeup. Due to sheer numbers, the carriers are likely to reduce - not in 150 years, but over a significant period of time. Dominant traits won't vanish - they'll become more common, simply because they're dominant.

[Valmy]

Prudii Aden wrote...

To get a new child, each parent donates 50% of their genetic makeup. Due to sheer numbers, the carriers are likely to reduce - not in 150 years, but over a significant period of time. Dominant traits won't vanish - they'll become more common, simply because they're dominant.

So baffled.

Do parents donate more of their dominant genes then their recessive genes?  No they do not.  The only way I could see that happening is some sort of scenario where people with more dominant genes have higher rates of reproduction for some reason.  Like being a carrier for blue eyes, or having blue eyes, meant that you were less likely to reproduce than somebody who was not.

[Kabraxal]

This is an odd trip into biology...

[Valmy]

Eh it doesn't matter really.

Miranda and Zaeed sorta break the implication in the first game and novel as well how accents have pretty much died out as well. A big deal was made of how David Anderson grew up in London but just has an American...er...generic...accent. But now Zaeed has a cockney thing going on.

But it is just cool how Miranda and Zaeed sound so, you know, the rule of cool.

Modifié par Valmy, 26 mars 2010 - 06:31 .

[Kabraxal]

Valmy wrote...

Eh it doesn't matter really.

Miranda and Zaeed sorta break the implication in the first game and novel as well how accents have pretty much died out as well. A big deal was made of how David Anderson grew up in London but just has an American...er...generic...accent. But now Zaeed has a cockney thing going on.

But it is just cool how Miranda and Zaeed sound so, you know, the rule of cool.

I don't see accents disappearing at all.  So any type of implication of that... I simply ignore.

Modifié par Kabraxal, 26 mars 2010 - 06:33 .

[Valmy]

Kabraxal wrote...
I don't see accents disappearing at all.  So any type of implication of that... I simply ignore.

Hey all humans eventually sounding the same and all being sorta brown and black skin, hair, and eyes wise isn't just really compelling even if I suppose it makes some sense.

[Kabraxal]

Valmy wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...
I don't see accents disappearing at all.  So any type of implication of that... I simply ignore.

Hey all humans eventually sounding the same and all being sorta brown and black skin, hair, and eyes wise isn't just really compelling even if I suppose it makes some sense.

I could see the "browning" as it was called in the book, but the accents were due to dialect and language differences and are maintained due to being raised around those accents.  I mean, I have American parents with midwestern accents, but I started with a British accent due to being raised around more of that accent. 

And when I tried to move to a more "accepted" accent becuase of school, I still went more Canadian

This is what you get for moving around a lot.

[Valmy]

Kabraxal wrote...
I could see the "browning" as it was called in the book, but the accents were due to dialect and language differences and are maintained due to being raised around those accents.  I mean, I have American parents with midwestern accents, but I started with a British accent due to being raised around more of that accent. 

And when I tried to move to a more "accepted" accent becuase of school, I still went more Canadian

This is what you get for moving around a lot.

Regional accents are dying out as people move around and all watch the same TV shows and so forth.  Why wouldn't that continue in the future?

[DarthReavus]

Valmy wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...
I could see the "browning" as it was called in the book, but the accents were due to dialect and language differences and are maintained due to being raised around those accents.  I mean, I have American parents with midwestern accents, but I started with a British accent due to being raised around more of that accent. 

And when I tried to move to a more "accepted" accent becuase of school, I still went more Canadian

This is what you get for moving around a lot.

Regional accents are dying out as people move around and all watch the same TV shows and so forth.  Why wouldn't that continue in the future?

Speak for yourself.  American accents may be overwhelming British television but our accents are not becoming Americanised.  Nor for that matter are the French, Germans, Spanish, Italians et al.

[Ieldra]

Valmy wrote...

Prudii Aden wrote...

To get a new child, each parent donates 50% of their genetic makeup. Due to sheer numbers, the carriers are likely to reduce - not in 150 years, but over a significant period of time. Dominant traits won't vanish - they'll become more common, simply because they're dominant.

So baffled.

Do parents donate more of their dominant genes then their recessive genes?  No they do not.  The only way I could see that happening is some sort of scenario where people with more dominant genes have higher rates of reproduction for some reason.  Like being a carrier for blue eyes, or having blue eyes, meant that you were less likely to reproduce than somebody who was not.

Baffled, yes. And this is why:

What's missing from the explanation is mating behavior. Blue eyes are a recessive trait, expressed within in a minority of the Caucasian race. In earlier times, people regularly married within their own ethnic group, and the percentage of people with blue eyes stayed more or less constant - because, as you say, the genes don't vanish. If there was a 50% prevalence of a recessive trait in the genotype, it would be expressed in about 25% of the population, with no change over time, provided people only had children within the same ethnic group.

But blue eyes are almost unknown in those human races that make up the majority of the human population on Earth. If (1) mating out of your own ethnic group becomes common, (2) the group with blue-eye genotypes is already a minority, (3) people of this group regularly have fewer children than other groups (which is true for western countries), and (4) the trait in question is recessive, it will become increasingly rare in the phenotype. I'm not quite sure about the factors which could make it actually die out, but it will be almost unheard of if these trends continue. Not in 150 years, of course.

[jtav]

I'm starting to fear for Miranda's continued safety in the Paragon ending. In the novels, Grayson betrayed TIM and ends up implanted with Reaper tech. Miranda betrayed him even more spectacularly. TIM would logically go after her, and she can't stay on the Normandy 24/7. I predict she'll either be captured or have to go into hiding between games after deciding (wrongly) that Shepard's safer without her because TIM, as much as he hates Shepard, still views him as humanity's best hope. We'll get a mission where we rescue her or help her evade Cerberus, with promises to take care of TIM and reunite once the Reapers are dealt with.



I'd prefer her recruitable, but it's not a bad option if they gave to cameo her.

[Valmy]

DarthReavus wrote...
Speak for yourself.  American accents may be overwhelming British television but our accents are not becoming Americanised.  Nor for that matter are the French, Germans, Spanish, Italians et al.

I am speaking about regional accents.  I am from Texas and there still are people who speak with Texas accents but I don't and I have lived here my entire life.  Likewise going to New York to find somebody with a New York accent is tougher than one might think.

In the future might such a process eventually spread to international levels?  Regional dialects are in decline all over the world.

[Kabraxal]

DarthReavus wrote...

Valmy wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...
I could see the "browning" as it was called in the book, but the accents were due to dialect and language differences and are maintained due to being raised around those accents.  I mean, I have American parents with midwestern accents, but I started with a British accent due to being raised around more of that accent. 

And when I tried to move to a more "accepted" accent becuase of school, I still went more Canadian

This is what you get for moving around a lot.

Regional accents are dying out as people move around and all watch the same TV shows and so forth.  Why wouldn't that continue in the future?

Speak for yourself.  American accents may be overwhelming British television but our accents are not becoming Americanised.  Nor for that matter are the French, Germans, Spanish, Italians et al.

This.  And given the prevelance of Canadian and English based programming in American television now, it is evening out even if it were happening.

[Prudii Aden]

Valmy wrote...

Prudii Aden wrote...

To get a new child, each parent donates 50% of their genetic makeup. Due to sheer numbers, the carriers are likely to reduce - not in 150 years, but over a significant period of time. Dominant traits won't vanish - they'll become more common, simply because they're dominant.

So baffled.

Do parents donate more of their dominant genes then their recessive genes?  No they do not.  The only way I could see that happening is some sort of scenario where people with more dominant genes have higher rates of reproduction for some reason.  Like being a carrier for blue eyes, or having blue eyes, meant that you were less likely to reproduce than somebody who was not.

Not to delve too deeply into it (because I'm not a geneticist and it gets maths/stats heavy). The reason why recessive genes (like blue eyes for example) will drop out of the gene pool is because it's a numbers game - it's all about the probabilities. Eventually they'll drop out because a)it requires 2 blue eyed parents to be sure that there will be a blue eyed child. b)not every non blue eyed person is a carrier - some are double dominant (brown, for example).
Lets say a double dominant person has a child with a blue eyed person - their child will be a carrier. However, if the child has a child with another double dominant, the odds of that child being a carrier are much lower. On the carrier's side, it's a 50% chance whether the recessive gene is part of their child's make up. If the recessive gene doesn't carry over, that's it for that genetic branch.

The best explanation I've found is here - http://askville.amaz...questId=8024916 .

[Ieldra]

Kabraxal wrote...

Valmy wrote...

Eh it doesn't matter really.

Miranda and Zaeed sorta break the implication in the first game and novel as well how accents have pretty much died out as well. A big deal was made of how David Anderson grew up in London but just has an American...er...generic...accent. But now Zaeed has a cockney thing going on.

But it is just cool how Miranda and Zaeed sound so, you know, the rule of cool.

I don't see accents disappearing at all.  So any type of implication of that... I simply ignore.

You may not see it, it still happens. They will probably not disappear completely, but as communication becomes more global diversity of languages will inevitably decrease. To which degree, that's unclear so far. I guess there will be a point where the influence of globalization and group cohesion through language are balanced. Accents will also fare better than languages because they aren't such a barrier to understanding. 

[Valmy]

Kabraxal wrote...
This.  And given the prevelance of Canadian and English based programming in American television now, it is evening out even if it were happening.

I am not saying that everybody in the world is eventually going to speak English with an American accent only that a common language with a common accent is what Mass Effect 1 and the novel Revelations said would eventually develop.  Naturally from a production point of view it was easier to hire actors who spoke English with American Accents so that was what they selected as the common accent/language.

Of course even in ME1 they did not do this perfectly like with Mr. Bhatia who had an Indian accent.

[Prudii Aden]

jtav wrote...

I'm starting to fear for Miranda's continued safety in the Paragon ending. In the novels, Grayson betrayed TIM and ends up implanted with Reaper tech. Miranda betrayed him even more spectacularly. TIM would logically go after her, and she can't stay on the Normandy 24/7. I predict she'll either be captured or have to go into hiding between games after deciding (wrongly) that Shepard's safer without her because TIM, as much as he hates Shepard, still views him as humanity's best hope. We'll get a mission where we rescue her or help her evade Cerberus, with promises to take care of TIM and reunite once the Reapers are dealt with.

I'd prefer her recruitable, but it's not a bad option if they gave to cameo her.

If that does happen, to quote a certain Mr J Bourne "there is no measure to how fast and how hard I will bring this fight to your doorstep."

Certainly if TIM does anything to Miranda and there's an option in game to take TIM down, you bet I'll take the option. It certainly wouldn't be pleasant.

[Valmy]

Prudii Aden wrote...
Not to delve too deeply into it (because I'm not a geneticist and it gets maths/stats heavy). The reason why recessive genes (like blue eyes for example) will drop out of the gene pool is because it's a numbers game - it's all about the probabilities. Eventually they'll drop out because a)it requires 2 blue eyed parents to be sure that there will be a blue eyed child. b)not every non blue eyed person is a carrier - some are double dominant (brown, for example).
Lets say a double dominant person has a child with a blue eyed person - their child will be a carrier. However, if the child has a child with another double dominant, the odds of that child being a carrier are much lower. On the carrier's side, it's a 50% chance whether the recessive gene is part of their child's make up. If the recessive gene doesn't carry over, that's it for that genetic branch.

Alright that makes sense.

Anyway with genetic engineering people with enough money can probably make their kid anyway they want like with Miranda's dad.