43796 réponses à ce sujet

[MassAffected]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Wow....that's simply fantastic.  And I don't think it has been posted yet. I wonder if Dolmheon would understand an appreciation notice written in English or German. He certainly deserves one.

I will transmit your appreciations in french.

OK....thanks. Just tell him (??) what I said - it's fantastic, among the very best of Miranda fanart IMO.

Hey...it's gone. I hope it's back soon, but I saved it anyway so it's not lost.

Yeah, this is one of the best renditions of Miranda that I've seen by a fan. He (?) captured her very well.

[planguy]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
It's interesting that the Miranda thread has so many more women than the Tali thread. I wonder why that is?

Perhaps it's because Miranda is a much more empowering role model for a woman than Tali.

Yay!, someone noticed my comment.

It's difficult at certain times. Some people are so lost in their conversations that interesting questions and posts get ignored if they're short. That was the reason for the picture - which, in hindsight, was superfluous since the traffic ebbed away as I wrote my post.

Sadly, as you posted that comment with that picture, I have a feeling many will miss the actual words of your post.

In this answer the picture is removed

I think both Tali and Miranda are ‘empowering.’ Miranda might be more sure of herself and in control, but Tali is a technical genius, a role you rarely see women in. One of the things I like about Mass Effect is that it tends to feature women in non-traditional roles: Miranda, Samara, Jack, and Ashley all lack ‘girly’ personalities while Tali and Liara might be girly, but are both in intellectually challenging fields.

Both Tali and Miranda are professionally competent, yes. But Miranda deals with her own emotions in a different way. She is much more aware of herself and can talk about what she feels more easily without negating it, even while remaining a bit insecure about it all. She seems less trapped by her emotions. This is what I think is more "empowering" about her (for lack of a better, less overused term). 

I wouldn't really say that Miranda is all that open about her emotions. And is she really "empowered"? She seems to define herself more as a tool then a person, and in many ways her self image is defined by the men in her life. I mean, sure, she rejected her father, but she still let his view of her and her purpose mold her life. And later in her life she joined up with the Illusive Man, whose only virtue in comparsion to her father seems to be that he is up front about using her. Miranda may draw comfort from having chosen a master instead of having one forced on her, but she still chose a master.

So, Miranda has some issues with her father and Tali has some issues with her relationship with her father. In fact, a lot of Mass Effect characters seem to have issues with their fathers. Is that just a popular story element?

[kraidy1117]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
It's interesting that the Miranda thread has so many more women than the Tali thread. I wonder why that is?

Perhaps it's because Miranda is a much more empowering role model for a woman than Tali.

Yay!, someone noticed my comment.

It's difficult at certain times. Some people are so lost in their conversations that interesting questions and posts get ignored if they're short. That was the reason for the picture - which, in hindsight, was superfluous since the traffic ebbed away as I wrote my post.

Sadly, as you posted that comment with that picture, I have a feeling many will miss the actual words of your post.

In this answer the picture is removed

I think both Tali and Miranda are ‘empowering.’ Miranda might be more sure of herself and in control, but Tali is a technical genius, a role you rarely see women in. One of the things I like about Mass Effect is that it tends to feature women in non-traditional roles: Miranda, Samara, Jack, and Ashley all lack ‘girly’ personalities while Tali and Liara might be girly, but are both in intellectually challenging fields.

Both Tali and Miranda are professionally competent, yes. But Miranda deals with her own emotions in a different way. She is much more aware of herself and can talk about what she feels more easily without negating it, even while remaining a bit insecure about it all. She seems less trapped by her emotions. This is what I think is more "empowering" about her (for lack of a better, less overused term). 

This. Tali is very imatiure and lets her emotions come before logic. If Tali was like Miri, she would not have protected her father, she would have thought logicaly.  Same as if youside with Legion. Unlike Miri if you side with Jack where she acts cold but collected. Tali on the other hand acts like a child and very imature.

[kraidy1117]

planguy wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
It's interesting that the Miranda thread has so many more women than the Tali thread. I wonder why that is?

Perhaps it's because Miranda is a much more empowering role model for a woman than Tali.

Yay!, someone noticed my comment.

It's difficult at certain times. Some people are so lost in their conversations that interesting questions and posts get ignored if they're short. That was the reason for the picture - which, in hindsight, was superfluous since the traffic ebbed away as I wrote my post.

Sadly, as you posted that comment with that picture, I have a feeling many will miss the actual words of your post.

In this answer the picture is removed

I think both Tali and Miranda are ‘empowering.’ Miranda might be more sure of herself and in control, but Tali is a technical genius, a role you rarely see women in. One of the things I like about Mass Effect is that it tends to feature women in non-traditional roles: Miranda, Samara, Jack, and Ashley all lack ‘girly’ personalities while Tali and Liara might be girly, but are both in intellectually challenging fields.

Both Tali and Miranda are professionally competent, yes. But Miranda deals with her own emotions in a different way. She is much more aware of herself and can talk about what she feels more easily without negating it, even while remaining a bit insecure about it all. She seems less trapped by her emotions. This is what I think is more "empowering" about her (for lack of a better, less overused term). 

I wouldn't really say that Miranda is all that open about her emotions. And is she really "empowered"? She seems to define herself more as a tool then a person, and in many ways her self image is defined by the men in her life. I mean, sure, she rejected her father, but she still let his view of her and her purpose mold her life. And later in her life she joined up with the Illusive Man, whose only virtue in comparsion to her father seems to be that he is up front about using her. Miranda may draw comfort from having chosen a master instead of having one forced on her, but she still chose a master.

So, Miranda has some issues with her father and Tali has some issues with her relationship with her father. In fact, a lot of Mass Effect characters seem to have issues with their fathers. Is that just a popular story element?

DAO had mommy issues and ME2 has father issues

Jacobs father becomes a crazy cult leader
Miris father is a unetihcal genus
Grunts "father" is a crazy scientist
Thane is a bad father
Shepard either lost his dad or never had one
Tali resepcts her father, that's it.
Samara's father was a "pure blood" and might have aused Samara to have soul sucking kids

[Guardian295]

Hello my fellow Mirimaniacs
And how are we this evening?

[kraidy1117]

Guardian295 wrote...

Hello my fellow Mirimaniacs
And how are we this evening?

tired and bored.

[Andysilv]

Guardian295 wrote...

Hello my fellow Mirimaniacs
And how are we this evening?

Very sleepy but otherwise okay. You?

[MassAffected]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Guardian295 wrote...

Hello my fellow Mirimaniacs
And how are we this evening?

tired and bored.

This...

[Guardian295]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Guardian295 wrote...

Hello my fellow Mirimaniacs
And how are we this evening?

tired and bored.

Well thats no good we must rectify this at once

[Guardian295]

andysilv87 wrote...

Guardian295 wrote...

Hello my fellow Mirimaniacs
And how are we this evening?

Very sleepy but otherwise okay. You?

Not bad been practicing for Gears tomorrow

[Andysilv]

Guardian295 wrote...

andysilv87 wrote...

Guardian295 wrote...

Hello my fellow Mirimaniacs
And how are we this evening?

Very sleepy but otherwise okay. You?

Not bad been practicing for Gears tomorrow

Good, good!

[Ieldra]

planguy wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
It's interesting that the Miranda thread has so many more women than the Tali thread. I wonder why that is?

Perhaps it's because Miranda is a much more empowering role model for a woman than Tali.

Yay!, someone noticed my comment.

It's difficult at certain times. Some people are so lost in their conversations that interesting questions and posts get ignored if they're short. That was the reason for the picture - which, in hindsight, was superfluous since the traffic ebbed away as I wrote my post.

Sadly, as you posted that comment with that picture, I have a feeling many will miss the actual words of your post.

In this answer the picture is removed

I think both Tali and Miranda are ‘empowering.’ Miranda might be more sure of herself and in control, but Tali is a technical genius, a role you rarely see women in. One of the things I like about Mass Effect is that it tends to feature women in non-traditional roles: Miranda, Samara, Jack, and Ashley all lack ‘girly’ personalities while Tali and Liara might be girly, but are both in intellectually challenging fields.

Both Tali and Miranda are professionally competent, yes. But Miranda deals with her own emotions in a different way. She is much more aware of herself and can talk about what she feels more easily without negating it, even while remaining a bit insecure about it all. She seems less trapped by her emotions. This is what I think is more "empowering" about her (for lack of a better, less overused term). 

I wouldn't really say that Miranda is all that open about her emotions. And is she really "empowered"? She seems to define herself more as a tool then a person, and in many ways her self image is defined by the men in her life. I mean, sure, she rejected her father, but she still let his view of her and her purpose mold her life. And later in her life she joined up with the Illusive Man, whose only virtue in comparsion to her father seems to be that he is up front about using her. Miranda may draw comfort from having chosen a master instead of having one forced on her, but she still chose a master.

No, she isn't open about her emotions - to others. But I get the impression she deals well with them on her own. And she didn't choose a master, she looked for a cause (IIRC she says that somewhen). As soon as she can't believe in that any more, she leaves (the so-called "Paragon" ending). She has a self-image of herself as a tool, but she's aware of that herself. 

All in all, she's not perfect, but she got the "know thyself" right, as opposed to Tali, who seems often driven and trapped by her emotions, regarding Shepard, and regarding the Geth, for instance. That she's more aware of herself makes her powerful and able to deal with her problems by herself instead of having to rely on others.    

[Guardian295]

andysilv87 wrote...

Guardian295 wrote...

andysilv87 wrote...

Guardian295 wrote...

Hello my fellow Mirimaniacs
And how are we this evening?

Very sleepy but otherwise okay. You?

Not bad been practicing for Gears tomorrow

Good, good!

I will log on here at about 3pm (8am your time) so we can see who else wants to join in as I will need to add their GTs

[Andysilv]

Guardian295 wrote...

andysilv87 wrote...

Guardian295 wrote...

andysilv87 wrote...

Guardian295 wrote...

Hello my fellow Mirimaniacs
And how are we this evening?

Very sleepy but otherwise okay. You?

Not bad been practicing for Gears tomorrow

Good, good!

I will log on here at about 3pm (8am your time) so we can see who else wants to join in as I will need to add their GTs

Great, there's usually quite a few people around still at that time.

[planguy]

So Miranda is more honest with herself, as opposed to being open with her emotions with others? I suppose I can see that. I'd disagree with Tali being trapped by her emotions, though. She's a patriotic young woman who happens to have some prejudices against a species that drove her people from their homeworld.

[kraidy1117]

Ieldra2 wrote...

planguy wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
It's interesting that the Miranda thread has so many more women than the Tali thread. I wonder why that is?

Perhaps it's because Miranda is a much more empowering role model for a woman than Tali.

Yay!, someone noticed my comment.

It's difficult at certain times. Some people are so lost in their conversations that interesting questions and posts get ignored if they're short. That was the reason for the picture - which, in hindsight, was superfluous since the traffic ebbed away as I wrote my post.

Sadly, as you posted that comment with that picture, I have a feeling many will miss the actual words of your post.

In this answer the picture is removed

I think both Tali and Miranda are ‘empowering.’ Miranda might be more sure of herself and in control, but Tali is a technical genius, a role you rarely see women in. One of the things I like about Mass Effect is that it tends to feature women in non-traditional roles: Miranda, Samara, Jack, and Ashley all lack ‘girly’ personalities while Tali and Liara might be girly, but are both in intellectually challenging fields.

Both Tali and Miranda are professionally competent, yes. But Miranda deals with her own emotions in a different way. She is much more aware of herself and can talk about what she feels more easily without negating it, even while remaining a bit insecure about it all. She seems less trapped by her emotions. This is what I think is more "empowering" about her (for lack of a better, less overused term). 

I wouldn't really say that Miranda is all that open about her emotions. And is she really "empowered"? She seems to define herself more as a tool then a person, and in many ways her self image is defined by the men in her life. I mean, sure, she rejected her father, but she still let his view of her and her purpose mold her life. And later in her life she joined up with the Illusive Man, whose only virtue in comparsion to her father seems to be that he is up front about using her. Miranda may draw comfort from having chosen a master instead of having one forced on her, but she still chose a master.

No, she isn't open about her emotions - to others. But I get the impression she deals well with them on her own. And she didn't choose a master, she looked for a cause (IIRC she says that somewhen). As soon as she can't believe in that any more, she leaves (the so-called "Paragon" ending). She has a self-image of herself as a tool, but she's aware of that herself. 

All in all, she's not perfect, but she got the "know thyself" right, as opposed to Tali, who seems often driven and trapped by her emotions, regarding Shepard, and regarding the Geth, for instance. That she's more aware of herself makes her powerful and able to deal with her problems by herself instead of having to rely on others.    

I always say this, side with Legion and you will see how immature Tali is. Side with Jack and Miri just gives you a cold reception but it's not that bad.

[Guardian295]

andysilv87 wrote...

Guardian295 wrote...

andysilv87 wrote...

Guardian295 wrote...

andysilv87 wrote...

Guardian295 wrote...

Hello my fellow Mirimaniacs
And how are we this evening?

Very sleepy but otherwise okay. You?

Not bad been practicing for Gears tomorrow

Good, good!

I will log on here at about 3pm (8am your time) so we can see who else wants to join in as I will need to add their GTs

Great, there's usually quite a few people around still at that time.

Cool

Oh and before I forget I won't be able to play in Fridays game, I'm going to be very busy

[Andysilv]

Guardian295 wrote...
Cool

Oh and before I forget I won't be able to play in Fridays game, I'm going to be very busy

Okay mate, don't worry about it.

[kraidy1117]

planguy wrote...

So Miranda is more honest with herself, as opposed to being open with her emotions with others? I suppose I can see that. I'd disagree with Tali being trapped by her emotions, though. She's a patriotic young woman who happens to have some prejudices against a species that drove her people from their homeworld.

She refuses to see that it was her species fault what happen. She tires to defenbd the acts of her ancestors and is too caught up on emoitions then anything. Look when you get the evidence. Giving it is smart because not only does to get rid of the war campaign but it a new admirly board consisting of Koris and new people will be on the board. That is smart, but Talis emotions conflict this.

[Ieldra]

planguy wrote...

So Miranda is more honest with herself, as opposed to being open with her emotions with others? I suppose I can see that. I'd disagree with Tali being trapped by her emotions, though. She's a patriotic young woman who happens to have some prejudices against a species that drove her people from their homeworld.

...after the quarians tried to destroy them. Yeah, right. I understand Tali's opinion, but that she refuses to consider her people's role in that conflict makes her immature. Tali is an example for why I say that (unreflected) patriotism is not a virtue.  

[MassAffected]

Ieldra2 wrote...

planguy wrote...

So Miranda is more honest with herself, as opposed to being open with her emotions with others? I suppose I can see that. I'd disagree with Tali being trapped by her emotions, though. She's a patriotic young woman who happens to have some prejudices against a species that drove her people from their homeworld.

...after the quarians tried to destroy them. Yeah, right. I understand Tali's opinion, but that she refuses to consider her people's role in that conflict makes her immature. Tali is an example for why I say that (unreflected) patriotism is not a virtue.  

Miranda tries to justify Cerberus' atrocities in much the same way Tali refuses to see her people's fault in the Geth conflict. What makes Miranda more "mature" (don't know if this is the correct word to use here) is that she realizes and acknowledges her mistake.

Modifié par MassAffected, 31 mars 2010 - 01:07 .

[DarthReavus]

*Hobbles into the thread*

Good thing Flashy gave me a crutch yesterday...and somebody get my pills!  I need my pills!

[Guardian295]

Ieldra2 wrote...

planguy wrote...

So Miranda is more honest with herself, as opposed to being open with her emotions with others? I suppose I can see that. I'd disagree with Tali being trapped by her emotions, though. She's a patriotic young woman who happens to have some prejudices against a species that drove her people from their homeworld.

...after the quarians tried to destroy them. Yeah, right. I understand Tali's opinion, but that she refuses to consider her people's role in that conflict makes her immature. Tali is an example for why I say that (unreflected) patriotism is not a virtue.  

I agree I used to like the Quarians but went I met Legion he changed my views of the Geth and as such my views of the Quarians and their attitued of "where are innocent victems", it made me loss respect for them.
IMO the Quarians need to man up and accept their part in the war that exiled them and make peace with the Geth, then and only then will they again find there place in the universe.

Modifié par Guardian295, 31 mars 2010 - 01:15 .

[Guardian295]

DarthReavus wrote...

*Hobbles into the thread*

Good thing Flashy gave me a crutch yesterday...and somebody get my pills!  I need my pills!

Hobbles...
Oh no what have you done now?

[planguy]

Ieldra2 wrote...

planguy wrote...

So Miranda is more honest with herself, as opposed to being open with her emotions with others? I suppose I can see that. I'd disagree with Tali being trapped by her emotions, though. She's a patriotic young woman who happens to have some prejudices against a species that drove her people from their homeworld.

...after the quarians tried to destroy them. Yeah, right. I understand Tali's opinion, but that she refuses to consider her people's role in that conflict makes her immature. Tali is an example for why I say that (unreflected) patriotism is not a virtue.  

Miranda does work for a terrorist organization, you know. She may have reasoned that their actions are for the greater good, but that doesn't negate the fact that they are up to some questionable activities. What motivaton does Miranda have for her loyalty to Cerberus if not patriotism or nationalism? Reflected patriotism doesn't necessarily mean you are right.

I'm not anti-Miranda in any way (seriously, she's awesome) it's just I dislike negative accusations against Tali that are made while ignoring the fact that similar arguments can be made against Miranda. Tali has some bias against Geth and has done some questionable things against them? Miranda works for what is, for all intents and purposes, a human supremecy group. Tali isn't and empowered character? You can argue the same for Miranda.