43796 réponses à ce sujet

[gutty47]

Ieldra2 wrote...

There are people who *don't* think that? For me it was pretty clear that she was there to keep an eye on Shepard. I don't know what else could be considered as "uncontrollable", but the scene at the end shows it clearly: TIM orders Miranda to prevent Shepard's destroying the base, and he expects her to use force if necessary

The use of force doesn't necessarily imply killing Shepard. Could've just used biotics to essentially shove Shepard out of the way and configure the bomb. If the collectors can't shut it down, what chance does Shepard have?

[gutty47]

MassAffected wrote...

gutty47 wrote...

MassAffected wrote...

With the Paragon ending I still argue that she ISN'T choosing a new master. Why? Because she knows that Shepard would NEVER use her or view her as a tool to be used.

Isn't Shepard using everyone as a tool to help him/her defeat the reapers?

If he was USING them, he wouldn't CARE about them.

Sneaky renegade Shepard fakes sympathy to gain thier loyalty.

[Ieldra]

gutty47 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
There are people who *don't* think that? For me it was pretty clear that she was there to keep an eye on Shepard. I don't know what else could be considered as "uncontrollable", but the scene at the end shows it clearly: TIM orders Miranda to prevent Shepard's destroying the base, and he expects her to use force if necessary

The use of force doesn't necessarily imply killing Shepard. Could've just used biotics to essentially shove Shepard out of the way and configure the bomb. If the collectors can't shut it down, what chance does Shepard have?

Not necessarily, no. But I think she was prepared to take any steps necessary to keep Shepard within certain parameters. To make an extreme case: it could theoretically have been possible that he came out of Lazarus Project prepared to hand over humanity to the Reapers, especially if he has Reaper tech implanted as some people surmise. I think she was prepared to kill Shepard should such a thing happen. And I'd consider that a reasonable precaution.

[MassAffected]

gutty47 wrote...

MassAffected wrote...

gutty47 wrote...

MassAffected wrote...

With the Paragon ending I still argue that she ISN'T choosing a new master. Why? Because she knows that Shepard would NEVER use her or view her as a tool to be used.

Isn't Shepard using everyone as a tool to help him/her defeat the reapers?

If he was USING them, he wouldn't CARE about them.

Sneaky renegade Shepard fakes sympathy to gain thier loyalty.

Like I said, depends on how you play it...

[gutty47]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Not necessarily, no. But I think she was prepared to take any steps necessary to keep Shepard within certain parameters. To make an extreme case: it could theoretically have been possible that he came out of Lazarus Project prepared to hand over humanity to the Reapers, especially if he has Reaper tech implanted as some people surmise. I think she was prepared to kill Shepard should such a thing happen. And I'd consider that a reasonable precaution.

I can't wrap my head around Shepard having reaper tech that would compromise him. The collectors would've activated this tech and indoctrinated him and an indoctrinated Shepard wouldn't destroy the collector base. It doesn't make sense. Hypothetically, I think that most of Shepard's senior crew would kill Shepard if he was indoctrinated.

Side note: There are two storylines that I would hate for ME3: Indoctrinated Shepard because of reaper tech from Lazarus project and Miranda having an unexpected character change. I could probably think of more crap storylines but I prefer not give any lurking devs ideas.

[firecleaner]

I really thought one of the endings was going to be Miranda putting a bullet in Shepard's head..... in retrospect I wish their were more endings...



@ Jtav her new job how bout Citadel/Alliance Intelligence... whatever the CIA is in the ME universe.

[MassAffected]

firecleaner wrote...

I really thought one of the endings was going to be Miranda putting a bullet in Shepard's head..... in retrospect I wish their were more endings...

@ Jtav her new job how bout Citadel/Alliance Intelligence... whatever the CIA is in the ME universe.

Why? Did Shep fire her as his XO? I like her to stay where she is, my second in command.

[jtav]

Thread's a bit quiet. So, I have an unambiguously positive theory (really!) Miranda would make a fantastic Spectre if she could ever internalize that she has value beyond her abilities. The only things that separate her from Shepard are charisma and confidence, and you don't need charisma to be a Spectre. In terms of abilities, she's a female Captain America. Peak human.

[firecleaner]

MassAffected wrote...

firecleaner wrote...

I really thought one of the endings was going to be Miranda putting a bullet in Shepard's head..... in retrospect I wish their were more endings...

@ Jtav her new job how bout Citadel/Alliance Intelligence... whatever the CIA is in the ME universe.

Why? Did Shep fire her as his XO? I like her to stay where she is, my second in command.

Well... I was thinking longer term post-reapers.... if she survivies....

[Rive Caedo]

jtav wrote...

Thread's a bit quiet. So, I have an unambiguously positive theory (really!) Miranda would make a fantastic Spectre if she could ever internalize that she has value beyond her abilities. The only things that separate her from Shepard are charisma and confidence, and you don't need charisma to be a Spectre. In terms of abilities, she's a female Captain America. Peak human.

I don't think she'd even WANT to be a Spectre now. They lost almost all their power once Saren ruined their reputation.

[MassAffected]

I honestly think that after the Reapers are "dealt" with that none of the heroes will want to do anything except take a looong break.

[Valmy]

Rive Caedo wrote...
I don't think she'd even WANT to be a Spectre now. They lost almost all their power once Saren ruined their reputation.

Source for that?  One would think Shepard's reputation did something for them.

[firecleaner]

MassAffected wrote...

I honestly think that after the Reapers are "dealt" with that none of the heroes will want to do anything except take a looong break.

Miranda doesn't strike me as person who takes long breaks... she likes excitment...

[Valmy]

firecleaner wrote...

I really thought one of the endings was going to be Miranda putting a bullet in Shepard's head..... in retrospect I wish their were more endings...

@ Jtav her new job how bout Citadel/Alliance Intelligence... whatever the CIA is in the ME universe.

I don't think the council has very many of its own institutions.  They tend to rely on the Salarians for their intelligence it seems to me.

[Valmy]

firecleaner wrote...
Miranda doesn't strike me as person who takes long breaks... she likes excitment...

She likes having her skills challenged, not necessarily an adrenaline junkie.  But I got the feeling that was more to her feelings of not being adequately worthy of her genetic engineering, she feels compelled to always be proving herself.

[jtav]

I'm with firecleaner. She'd enjoy it for a week and then start driving people crazy.

[Valmy]

gutty47 wrote...

MassAffected wrote...

With the Paragon ending I still argue that she ISN'T choosing a new master. Why? Because she knows that Shepard would NEVER use her or view her as a tool to be used.

Isn't Shepard using everyone as a tool to help him/her defeat the reapers?

Only in the same way a general uses the army to defeat his nation's enemies.  We are all on the same side here.

Besides up to now, with the exception of Kaidan and Ashley, joining Shepard's group has been on an entirely volunteer basis.

[Valmy]

jtav wrote...

I'm with firecleaner. She'd enjoy it for a week and then start driving people crazy.

She would start a hobby like trying to invent an immortality vaccine or a source of unlimited energy or something.

[MassAffected]

I'd say helping defeat the Reapers is "proving one self". There are other areas outside of constant danger where she can learn new skills and test her limits. No, not that...I was talking about parenthood...

[Sleepy Buddha]

jtav wrote...

No, you're not gutty. I think the Paragon ending isn't about her choosing Shepard. It's about her deciding that some things cannot be justified and she won't do them or allow them to be done. She has a new master, all right: her conscience.

Hearing Miranda's comments in some missions throughout the game, I got the sense she always had pretty good values and a well developed conscience (even if she's ruthless to pricks like Wilson).

It's just that she deferred to TIM's opinion by default, probably going against her own judgement many times.

That's until paragon Shep boosts her confidence in her own opinion enough for her to start following her own conscience.

So I agree with jtav and MA that Miranda's new master is her conscience and Shep is her partner/equal.

But I also think it was paragon Shep who enabled her change. Without Shep, she would have been stuck where she was (psychologicaly) before Shep woke up.

[jtav]

MA: as long as she's still doing the spy/action/science stuff, too. I don't want domestic Miranda.

[Jediknight120]

MassAffected wrote...

I'd say helping defeat the Reapers is "proving one self". There are other areas outside of constant danger where she can learn new skills and test her limits. No, not that...I was talking about parenthood...

I know none of us really see Miranda as the "settling down" type, but I keep thinking about the conversation where she talks about Oriana having a "normal life" and a family. I think she'd do her best to give her children the same... maybe not stay home all the time, but not running across the galaxy as much either.

[DarthReavus]

Maviarab wrote...

Just a test....

A test of what?

[Valmy]

jtav wrote...

MA: as long as she's still doing the spy/action/science stuff, too. I don't want domestic Miranda.

I am always a little baffled about the constant fear of housewifery.  I mean as if that is anything but a luxury for the fortunate few women who want it and have the opportunity  Today most mothers work, usually because they have to.

Nobody is a housewife unless they want it.