43796 réponses à ce sujet

[Valmy]

Karstedt wrote...
Cynics believe that actions are selfish in nature

Which is a pretty immature point of view.  Very rarely are motives purely one thing or the other.  They are almost always mixed. 

[firecleaner]

Karstedt wrote...

firecleaner wrote...

I believe Valmy is correct the biggest cynics I know are the most "romantic" people they just hate to be rejected so they hide behind a wall.

I think you people are using the wrong term. Cynics believe that actions are selfish in nature. It has nothing to do with hiding behind a wall, and doesn't preclude nor imply romanticism or idealism.

I think the word you are looking for is bitter. Maybe crabby, or hostile... perhaps antagonistic. Full of bile even. Venemous, harsh... one of those.

English isn't my greatest subject but I always thought cynics were pessimistic people that didn't trust other people...   please correct me if I'm wrong.

Modifié par firecleaner, 08 avril 2010 - 02:07 .

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

jtav wrote...

gutty, have I mentioned lately how much I appreciate your work on the dialogue tree? You're amazing.

Re: game mechanics. I find it better to err on the side of real world plausibility. If Miranda is injured in a firefight, that's going to impact her performance. Real people don't have HP. Then again, I cheerfully admit to doing things like putting Miranda in armor for N7 missions and having Shep miss difficult shots and otherwise be imperfect.

nobody's perfect. the difference between "good" and "great" is that when it really matters, shepard wouldn't miss.

Except if he did. A whole story could be written around a missed important shot.

BTW, I do notice that my image of Shepard and yours differ. I try to reduce his perfection a bit to keep him more human. IMO he's become bigger than what's good for the story in ME2 (compared to ME1)

@SgtPotato:
Thanks. I had hoped for a long one, but this is good enough.

hmm i'm not saying he's perfect (especially as i play high renegade), but the stakes are generally so high all the time, shepard can't afford to miss, or else he (or someone important) will die. i agree that "missing" or whatever could throw up an interesting tale, but when you've come back from the dead already, how interesting is that really? as gutty already said (and, indeed miranda remarks) shep is pretty much perfect, without any genetic engineering (other than natural), already. does it make him less interesting? not if he's in the right situations, no.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 08 avril 2010 - 02:07 .

[Karstedt]

Valmy wrote...

I have never met a really mature and at peace person who is cynical.  They accept the world for all its flaws and do not let themselves become upset reality does not match up with their preconcieved ideals.  Cynicism is a stopping point between innocence and wisdom.

You is definitely got wrong word... you are describing something completely outside the scope of cynicism.

[Karstedt]

firecleaner wrote...

English isn't my greatest subject but I always thought cynics were pessimistic people that didn't trust other people...   please correct me if I'm wrong.

No. A cynic believes that actions are selfish in nature. IE: If there were no personal gain, material, social, emotional or otherwise; then the action would not be taken.

[Jebel Krong]

some yvonne news (1 article and an interview):-

here & here.

[jtav]

I'm pretty sure I accidentally romanced Liara. Curse my need to talk to my squad. Please let that not screw things up for ME3. Or maybe this Shep should go for Tali.

[Andysilv]

Good afternoon Mavitron. Welcome back home. *Hands Mavi a coffee*

[Valmy]

jtav wrote...

I'm pretty sure I accidentally romanced Liara. Curse my need to talk to my squad. Please let that not screw things up for ME3. Or maybe this Shep should go for Tali.

You can turn her down flat early on that kills it I seem to recall.  It has been awhile I haven't rescued her yet in my current game.

[Ieldra]

Valmy wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I wouldn't call it cynicism but realism. Miranda is intelligent and she sees what's going on in the world. Clearly love does not conquer all, nor does it necessarily last until death.

Do you think she is really experienced in this area to be coming from a position of knowledge and experience?

From a position of knowledge by observation, probably not direct experience.

.

It might be that considering the transience of love and happiness makes her value what she has even more. That's not a cynic's attitude.

Wow love is necessarily transient?  I have millions of examples when it wasn't to offer you.  It certainly can be transient but does it reflect reality or realism to say transience is its defining feature?

That's not what I said. Love can end just as easily as every other thing you experience in life, that's all. And it's enough reason to call it transient. Or do I misinterpret the term? BTW, how many first loves last until death?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 08 avril 2010 - 02:23 .

[Valmy]

Ieldra2 wrote...
That's not what I said. Love can end just as easily as every other thing you experience in life, that's all. And it's enough reason to call it transient. Or do I misinterpret the term? BTW, how many first loves last until death?

Well if you go by that definition everything but death is transient.

I would suspect the vast majority of first loves do not last until death but plenty have. 

I do admit I found my first love on facebook accidentally (she was a friend of a friend) and as soon as I saw her pic all the old feelings from 10+ years ago came rushing back.  That was pretty unnerving.

[firecleaner]

Ieldra2 wrote...  BTW, how many first loves last until death?

Not to many but I dont know if people love the other person when they begin dating....

Clarification: What I mean I dont think young adults/teens know what love is when they date for the first time.

Modifié par firecleaner, 08 avril 2010 - 02:30 .

[jtav]

Valmy wrote...

jtav wrote...

I'm pretty sure I accidentally romanced Liara. Curse my need to talk to my squad. Please let that not screw things up for ME3. Or maybe this Shep should go for Tali.

You can turn her down flat early on that kills it I seem to recall.  It has been awhile I haven't rescued her yet in my current game.

I was rather short with her when she talked about finding me fascinating, but I thought that was the covo where she asked if there was something between us and it never came up. And Benezia's up next.

[firecleaner]

jtav wrote...

Valmy wrote...

jtav wrote...

I'm pretty sure I accidentally romanced Liara. Curse my need to talk to my squad. Please let that not screw things up for ME3. Or maybe this Shep should go for Tali.

You can turn her down flat early on that kills it I seem to recall.  It has been awhile I haven't rescued her yet in my current game.

I was rather short with her when she talked about finding me fascinating, but I thought that was the covo where she asked if there was something between us and it never came up. And Benezia's up next.

I find it funny that you can have a relationship with the daughter of a mother you killed.

[Karstedt]

Valmy wrote...

Karstedt wrote...
Cynics believe that actions are selfish in nature

Which is a pretty immature point of view.  Very rarely are motives purely one thing or the other.  They are almost always mixed. 

Mixed versions and degrees of selfishness:D

True selflessness is sacrifice for nothing. It happens by accident sometimes, but it's never intentional. Sacrifice is virtually always for something... an ideal, a goal, a reward. Something of value to the person sacrificing.

I don't see how it could be called immature. Maturity isn't relevant.

A lot of people get hung up on the idea that selfish = bad. So if all actions are selfish, all actions are bad. Which is just silly. Good and bad are outside the realm of cynicism. And selfishness has no inherent moral or ethical value.

[Valmy]

jtav wrote...
I was rather short with her when she talked about finding me fascinating, but I thought that was the covo where she asked if there was something between us and it never came up. And Benezia's up next.

She tried to hit on you at some point and then you turn her down and she gets embarrased and promises never to mention it again or something.

But it might be harder if you are not romancing anybody at all.  I was always romancing Ashley at that point.

[gutty47]

Jebel Krong wrote...

some yvonne news (1 article and an interview):-

here & here.

Thanks for these. I'll read them when I've watched the relevant episodes

Can't get into Chuck mode at the moment... currently back into Supernatural mode.

[Valmy]

Karstedt wrote...
Mixed versions and degrees of selfishness:D

True selflessness is sacrifice for nothing. It happens by accident sometimes, but it's never intentional. Sacrifice is virtually always for something... an ideal, a goal, a reward. Something of value to the person sacrificing.

Yes but people cannot be counted on to act selfishly.  That is the problem.  People often act irrationally for all sorts of bizarre reasons that may not even benefit them at all.

But just like pure selflessness, even the most selfish act usually is always for something else also. 

Also just like anything else as soon as you start looking for selfishness you see it everywhere just like if I were to be convinced people always act out of fear I would start seeing fear everywhere.

[Valmy]

Maviarab wrote...

Mavitrons tip for the tip...

never ever get re-involved with a first love

Nobody gets a second chance with me.  Once it is over it is over.  Forever.  That's just the way it works.

We can still be friends though.

[Jediknight120]

Good morning thread. Someone pass the caffeine.

[Valmy]

Vulgus Presencia wrote...

He has all the LI's related dialogue with kasumi on there. Liara even gets mentioned.

Yeah but she doesn't mention Ashley or Kaidan.  Bioware seems to enjoy drawing out the angst from their fans.