43796 réponses à ce sujet

[MassAffected]

Thats why I play Paragade or at least its how I always end up. I try to make decisions based off how I feel in a given situation. Also I'm a chump so I can forgive just about anything...*shrug*

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
It was one guy, but I brought up the kidnapping thing before and several people said they wouldn't find it unforgivable.

I'm a consequentialist at heart. If Oriana had a reasonably happy childhood regardless, I might be persuaded to forgive Miranda. But I'd still feel less inclinded to trust Miranda than before, which would probably destroy any romance.
All assuming the hypothetical scenario her father "wasn't that bad". Which I don't think is true.

[MassAffected]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
It was one guy, but I brought up the kidnapping thing before and several people said they wouldn't find it unforgivable.

I'm a consequentialist at heart. If Oriana had a reasonably happy childhood regardless, I might be persuaded to forgive Miranda. But I'd still feel less inclinded to trust Miranda than before, which would probably destroy any romance.
All assuming the hypothetical scenario her father "wasn't that bad". Which I don't think is true.

The entire "if he wasn't that bad" scenario doesn't make sense because then why would Miranda ever leave? She would have to be pretty messed up to begin with if she threw away a good life and then stole her sister in the process.

[jtav]

And I focus on motive and the act itself. But I think we all know what I think of her father. That's one Renegade option I'll take with pleasure.



I do find it odd that I don't have quite as much of a problem thinking badly of her, even if it's admitting there's an unlikely scenario that would do so.

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...
i am more disturbed by this apparent obsession with being either "renegade" or "paragon" and not just doing what you feel is right in the given situation, as you would naturally, in real life.

Why limit yourself to playing a Shepard with your own morals? The essence of role-playing is to be able to play someone who's not you. That also applies to morals.

Renegade shep doesn't nec. mean that that person would do all/only renegade actions and vice-versa.

No, of course not. Real characters are almost never that extreme. But there's a lot of space between always playing yourself and playing a cardboard Renegade/Paragon. Most of my Shepards are probably a bit more Renegade than I would be, just because in the game I'm often Renegade in small decisions with no consequences (i.e. in shops) for a better selection of conversation options in the more important decisions.

[MassAffected]

jtav wrote...

And I focus on motive and the act itself. But I think we all know what I think of her father. That's one Renegade option I'll take with pleasure.

I do find it odd that I don't have quite as much of a problem thinking badly of her, even if it's admitting there's an unlikely scenario that would do so.

I'm almost praying that BioWare makes a confrontation with her father (if there is one) very complicated. I don't want to just walk in there and be like "OK Miranda I'm gonna kill him for you". I want BioWare to make me doubt her word, to make it really emotional and confusing. That is one scene that is probably more important to me than how ME3 ends if it is ever implemented.

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...
i am more disturbed by this apparent obsession with being either "renegade" or "paragon" and not just doing what you feel is right in the given situation, as you would naturally, in real life.

Why limit yourself to playing a Shepard with your own morals? The essence of role-playing is to be able to play someone who's not you. That also applies to morals.

Renegade shep doesn't nec. mean that that person would do all/only renegade actions and vice-versa.

No, of course not. Real characters are almost never that extreme. But there's a lot of space between always playing yourself and playing a cardboard Renegade/Paragon. Most of my Shepards are probably a bit more Renegade than I would be, just because in the game I'm often Renegade in small decisions with no consequences (i.e. in shops) for a better selection of conversation options in the more important decisions.

i agree, but don't get me wrong - i certainly don't play myself.... more like... wish fulfilment... haha. it just seems that everyone gets hung up on "paragon" shep wouldn't stand for this, only "renegade" shep would understand that, and that's blatantly not what people are like in life.

[Jebel Krong]

MassAffected wrote...

jtav wrote...

And I focus on motive and the act itself. But I think we all know what I think of her father. That's one Renegade option I'll take with pleasure.

I do find it odd that I don't have quite as much of a problem thinking badly of her, even if it's admitting there's an unlikely scenario that would do so.

I'm almost praying that BioWare makes a confrontation with her father (if there is one) very complicated. I don't want to just walk in there and be like "OK Miranda I'm gonna kill him for you". I want BioWare to make me doubt her word, to make it really emotional and confusing. That is one scene that is probably more important to me than how ME3 ends if it is ever implemented.

i hope they don't - not every aspect of every character needs exploring in-game, some things add to the mystique...

[shinobi602]

Jebel Krong....your sig.....mes....mesmerizinnng......


:innocent:

[jtav]

MA, I could see a scenario where he has finally discovered the value of positive reinforcement. He still cares nothing for his daughters, but he treats them far better.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I do find it odd that I don't have quite as much of a problem thinking badly of her, even if it's admitting there's an unlikely scenario that would do so.

It depends on what exactly "thinking badly of her" means. I have no problems wrapping my mind about your scenarios and discussing them, even liking Miranda as she's presented in the game. But I don't think I'd want to write - or even read - a story with Miranda as a villain. 

[MassAffected]

Jebel Krong wrote...

MassAffected wrote...

jtav wrote...

And I focus on motive and the act itself. But I think we all know what I think of her father. That's one Renegade option I'll take with pleasure.

I do find it odd that I don't have quite as much of a problem thinking badly of her, even if it's admitting there's an unlikely scenario that would do so.

I'm almost praying that BioWare makes a confrontation with her father (if there is one) very complicated. I don't want to just walk in there and be like "OK Miranda I'm gonna kill him for you". I want BioWare to make me doubt her word, to make it really emotional and confusing. That is one scene that is probably more important to me than how ME3 ends if it is ever implemented.

i hope they don't - not every aspect of every character needs exploring in-game, some things add to the mystique...

This is why I said IF its in the game. I get what you're saying tho.

[DarthReavus]

shinobi602 wrote...

Jebel Krong....your sig.....mes....mesmerizinnng......


:innocent:

*Slap* Keep it together shin!  You're a ninja damn it!

[MassAffected]

jtav wrote...

MA, I could see a scenario where he has finally discovered the value of positive reinforcement. He still cares nothing for his daughters, but he treats them far better.

That still won't make what he did or didn't do go away, in any case he would have to atone for any crimes he commits while conducting research on cloning his legacy or whatever. Thats why it would be cool to me if there is a confrontation and that it reveals that Miranda wasn't telling the entire truth. There are too many choices that are very black and white in ME...I would like something a little more gray when it comes to Miranda and her father.

Modifié par MassAffected, 09 avril 2010 - 03:09 .

[jtav]

Depends on what you mean by villain. I can see her doing pretty horrible things for Cerberus as long as she wasn't working with full knowledge or her victims were themselves scum. But deliberate, intentional war crimes committed against civilians or similar? No. But that doesn't mean she hasn't done questionable acts like torture. I think she has, and I wouldn't be surprised if TIM has manipulated her into worse.

[MassAffected]

Maviarab wrote...

But what does that really matter Mass...
If your in a relationship with Miri....and love her....then you wont doubt her....and even is she wass being shy with the truth....you will still go along with her....

Different if your not romancing her I know...but I said it before and got flamed to hell...if there is doubt...a lack of trust....you don't truly love someone.

Yeah I remember that "discussion". The way it stands now is that I do trust her, but it would be a very special scene if even for a moment it caused me to have doubt. It doesn't have to come from her father's mouth because I'd never listen or even from Mirand herself. A third party to reveal that it was never like it seemed it was. I want those conflicting emotions to play out because I think it would be a great experience.

[firecleaner]

Maviarab wrote...

But what does that really matter Mass...
If your in a relationship with Miri....and love her....then you wont doubt her....and even is she wass being shy with the truth....you will still go along with her....

Different if your not romancing her I know...but I said it before and got flamed to hell...if there is doubt...a lack of trust....you don't truly love someone.

I remember that.... everyone has different personal opinions I dont know why you got flamed for it... 

[Valmy]

I trust Miranda's version of events until I learn evidence otherwise. If she was lying or being misleading then things might get bad depending upon the specifics.



If she instead made a terrible error well that is something different.

[firecleaner]

Maviarab wrote...

jtav wrote...

Depends on what you mean by villain. I can see her doing pretty horrible things for Cerberus as long as she wasn't working with full knowledge or her victims were themselves scum. But deliberate, intentional war crimes committed against civilians or similar? No. But that doesn't mean she hasn't done questionable acts like torture. I think she has, and I wouldn't be surprised if TIM has manipulated her into worse.

Sorry jtav but I can't see that view point with her at all.

I would say she has dome some very horrible th
ings with full knowledge of what she was doing. Also, if she had real Morals, she would never be working for Cerberus at all, forget all the crap about her dad and sister, Im sorry, but some morals are not broken, regardless of the circumstances, and there is always an alternative....

So, are we to assume she as 'questinable' morals? She adheres to her morals when it suits her? (like most people)....

Also, you would be very suprised what people will do when they think its for the greater good.

I agree with Mavi on this if she had great morals she wouldn't be working for a company that kills admirals and abuses children.....

Modifié par firecleaner, 09 avril 2010 - 03:34 .

[jtav]

But her reaction to learning of those atrocities is to deny that they were done by Cerberus. She sounds pretty horrified on Jack's loyalty mission.

[Breakdown Boy]

Whats up Miri lovers....



Just installed Kasumi but will keep it for tomorow, enjoying DAO too much.



I would side with Miri. She is a tough chick and wouldn't just leave her rich father if there wasn't something seriously wrong. I guess she must have found out what he did to get to creating her, pretty sick stuff. The whole Oriana back story needs more panning out before we can make a call on whether it was good or bad.

[MassAffected]

@ Mavi: Agreed, people will do some outrageous things when they think its for the "greater good". I also think that she, more than likely, has done some horrible things with full knowledge of what she was doing and to whom. I honestly don't think she begins to change a whole lot untill she meets Shepard, good or bad.