43796 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

Oh dear. I fear I've blown this all out of proportion. It was a joke.

[DarthReavus]

jtav wrote...

Oh dear. I fear I've blown this all out of proportion. It was a joke.

We know, we're just taking the joke and running with it, allowing it to grow and evolve

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...

I'll respond to your second half now because I'm less like;y to say something dreadfully offensive. Let me say first off that I don't think there's a right way to interpret Miranda. Including mine. That said, I think it's fairly she doesn't feel she has a great deal of self-worth beyond her usefulness as a tool. She says as much. As for trust/intimacy, she does call her trust in Niket a weakness, and I firmly believe it wasn't.
I'm sorry if I give the impression that these issues dominate her. They don't. Her father didn't break her. I just think they're there and find them useful to keep in mind.

Then we're still mostly agreed about this. Mostly...

Regarding trust, well, it makes you vulnerable, so she does have a point there, even though, in the sum of it all, it has done her more good than bad with Niket. If I may quote, yet again, from one of my favorite games:

"Reliance upon others is weakness for the strong,
But strength for the weak.
Wisdom and balance lie in knowing
Your own nature over time."
-- from Thief 2: The Metal Age

About her self-worth, she derives it from her competence. That's not the worst source IMO. What she lacks is self-direction, a purpose set by herself and for herself. It's not clear if she hasn't found it yet or if she believes herself unable to determine this for herself.

BTW, I'm getting curious about your reply to my longer post regarding Miranda's opinion of marriage....

Modifié par Ieldra2, 13 avril 2010 - 03:40 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Oh dear. I fear I've blown this all out of proportion. It was a joke.

Well, you did say you disagreed passionately with something I said, you even said you were in danger of saying something offensive - and I can't recall you ever doing that. What did you expect? :lol:

[Andysilv]

Lol, Mavi. The one time you use the quote box and it all goes ****** up! Hehe.

[Ieldra]

Maviarab wrote...

BTW, I'm getting curious about your reply to my longer post regarding marriage....

Ield asked jtav to marry him....wtf have I missed?

:lol:
You should read the relevant posts before starting rumors.

jtav, as it seems, disagrees about a part of something I posted about whether or not Miranda would want to marry, and some related issues. I still don't know what exactly it is she disagrees with, but I might have said one or two controversial things.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 13 avril 2010 - 03:39 .

[jtav]

About her self-worth, what concerns me us that she, initially, seems to not believe she could possibly be valued for anything else. She's better about it if you romance her. She also seems to have tied her self-concept tightly (not exclusively to Cerberus, which makes me curious about the aftermath of the Paragon ending.

Regarding marriage, I'm tempted to say I'm an unhappily lapsed Catholic and leave it there. Probably explains a lot about my views on Miranda. I will say I prefer to munumize the "Miranda intentionally breaking convention" aspect.

Modifié par jtav, 13 avril 2010 - 03:50 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
About her self-worth, what concerns me us that she, initially, seems to not believe she could possibly be valued for anything else. She's better about it if you romance her. She also seems to have tied her self-concept tightly (not exclusively to Cerberus, which makes me curious about the aftermath of the Paragon ending.

My view is a little different, but not so far from yours.

Regarding marriage, I'm tempted to say I'm an unhappily lapsed Catholic and leave it there. Probably explains a lot about my views on Miranda.

Hmm. Would you mind elaborating a bit, because it seems I don't understand some of what you imply.

For instance, why would you think that Miranda would not want to marry? IIRC, you did say that yesterday.

Edit:
Just noticed your edit:

I will say I prefer to minimize the "Miranda intentionally breaking convention" aspect.

I see. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I don't think Miranda is something like a revolutionary in this regard. I just think she would be uncomfortable enough with the traditions surrounding marriage that she'll decide not to marry. A purely personal matter.
Of course, I would also want this decision to symbolize something more in the big picture - but that, as I said in the last paragraph of my original reply, is purely personal preference and wasn't part of the argument.
 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 13 avril 2010 - 03:58 .

[jtav]

I did indeed say that. My argument is that Miranda values her word highly, and she won't give ut if she thinks she might break it. She won't explicitly promise forever because things can change.

Read your edit. I think we agree re: Miranda and are quibbling over semantics.

Modifié par jtav, 13 avril 2010 - 04:07 .

[Karstedt]

I say she's not the marrying type. I win!

[DarthReavus]

Maviarab wrote...

*puts his chair away*
Meh...that was all very anti-climatic....

*Throws rotten tomatoes* Boooooooo!

[DarthReavus]

Maviarab wrote...

*angrily demands refund of tickets*

They were free.  I stole them

[Ieldra]

Maviarab wrote...
*puts his chair away*
Meh...that was all very anti-climatic....

You should've known jtav and I aren't the types for flame wars.

[DarthReavus]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Maviarab wrote...
*puts his chair away*
Meh...that was all very anti-climatic....

You should've known jtav and I aren't the types for flame wars.

Couldn't you indulge us just this once?  Pleeeeeeeeeeease?  We need a bit of entertainment! :lol:

[Karstedt]

Does anyone else think Yaphet Kotto goes into stasis when he's not in public? He's freakishly un-aging.

[jtav]

We are entirely too civil. Just hope we never discuss bioethics, or any other kind of ethics. That would get nasty.

Good news: I might be able to get DSL. Bad news: I trashed my Cerberus Network card because I thought I'd never need it. Any of the DLC besides Kasumi worth paying for?

[Annjul666]

Karstedt wrote...

Does anyone else think Yaphet Kotto goes into stasis when he's not in public? He's freakishly un-aging.

who ?