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Warming to Miranda (Support Thread) 2.0


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#36376
Valmy

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jtav wrote...

fire: There's a tendency in some circles to present Shep as someone who really is perfect: he never misses, is always right, and could probably take on the Reapers all by himself. He can shrug off any physical or psychic trauma. In short, he has no flaws. This gets dull very quickly.


That is because he is, in the very literal sense, a Gary Stu/Mary Sue character.  Since you essentially control him it is a challenge not to make him perfect.

#36377
MassAffected

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Depends on your RPing skills I suppose.

#36378
Jebel Krong

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jtav wrote...

fire: There's a tendency in some circles to present Shep as someone who really is perfect: he never misses, is always right, and could probably take on the Reapers all by himself. He can shrug off any physical or psychic trauma. In short, he has no flaws. This gets dull very quickly.


shepard =/= batman :?

my personal view is that he's the guy who never misses when it really matters, his determination as much as skill make the difference between being merely good and being great; and his enemies don't live for very long as a result. but, he's still just a man, and is as flawed as anyone as a result - scarred and haunted. thankfully he has found a soulmate in miranda.

#36379
Valmy

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MassAffected wrote...

Depends on your RPing skills I suppose.


Or your ability to resist fantasies and wish fulfillment Image IPB

#36380
Jebel Krong

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Valmy wrote...

MassAffected wrote...

Depends on your RPing skills I suppose.


Or your ability to resist fantasies and wish fulfillment Image IPB


games are wish-fulfilment simulators...

#36381
jtav

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What I did was occasionally have him make bad or dubious choices or just screw up: reconcile the asari on Illium, be unable to resist Morinth, choose Miranda as the biotic and get Jacob killed.

When I write, I flesh him out a bit more. He killed a thresher maw on foot, but not before he mentally checked out for a sec because he's a Sole Sirvivor with undiagnosed PTSD.

Modifié par jtav, 15 avril 2010 - 02:55 .


#36382
Valmy

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Jebel Krong wrote...
games are wish-fulfilment simulators...


True but it makes for terrible fan fiction and story telling.  I don't want to hear about how perfect your Shep is, I might be interested in a new or interesting take on the character though.

#36383
Jebel Krong

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Valmy wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...
games are wish-fulfilment simulators...


True but it makes for terrible fan fiction and story telling.  I don't want to hear about how perfect your Shep is, I might be interested in a new or interesting take on the character though.


flaws are what makes characters interesting, which is why good villains are hard to create and often make the best characters. the strength of a hero is often defined by his enemies - in shepard we have a good one.

#36384
MassAffected

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jtav wrote...

What I did was occasionally have him make bad or dubious choices or just screw up: reconcile the asari on Illium, be unable to resist Morinth, choose Miranda as the biotic and get Jacob killed.

When I write, I flesh him out a bit more. He killed a thresher maw on foot, but not before he mentally checked out for a sec because he's a Sole Sirvivor with undiagnosed PTSD.


Hahaha, I do the same thing with Miranda/Jacob...gotta be sure ya know? Image IPB

#36385
jtav

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MA: Actually, I chose it because it would be the most traumatic loss for the pair of them. Jacob's loss would be devastating for Miranda, especially since it was directly caused by a failure of the abilities she's so proud of. And Shep let her do it, despite having Samara and Jack right there.

#36386
DarthCyclopsRLZ

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Ieldra2 wrote...

DarthCyclopsRLZ wrote...

How many of us actually *loved* the fact that their romance/love scene wasn't fluffy lovemaking?

Not just sex, but not the exact opposite either. I dig.

That's what I said above. I did like that aspect specifically. Only the location put me off.


It kinda did for me too at first, but the more I think about it, the more it doesn't.

I honestly have a hard time seeing a Paragon Shep (let's not kid ourselves here, all ME romances work better with the Paragon/neutral route) as anything but a nutjob when it comes to holding the line and doing the right thing.

It's only fair Miranda would assume he'd take that kind of thing seriously. Figures she would pick a location that just screams "I want this, but not that fast". Sounds just right for the character.

#36387
MassAffected

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jtav wrote...

MA: Actually, I chose it because it would be the most traumatic loss for the pair of them. Jacob's loss would be devastating for Miranda, especially since it was directly caused by a failure of the abilities she's so proud of. And Shep let her do it, despite having Samara and Jack right there.


I know why, just my attempt at humor...Image IPB I honestly do it for the drama it will cause down the road (in my mind anyway)

#36388
DarthCyclopsRLZ

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Valmy wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...
games are wish-fulfilment simulators...


True but it makes for terrible fan fiction and story telling.  I don't want to hear about how perfect your Shep is, I might be interested in a new or interesting take on the character though.


Blame Bioware, lol.  In no way whatsoever can the logistics on the War Hero and Sole Survivor origins make any sense.

#36389
firecleaner

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DarthCyclopsRLZ wrote...


Blame Bioware, lol.  In no way whatsoever can the logistics on the War Hero and Sole Survivor origins make any sense.




Elaborate please I dont understand how Sole Survivor and War Hero dont make sense

#36390
Valmy

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DarthCyclopsRLZ wrote...
Blame Bioware, lol.  In no way whatsoever can the logistics on the War Hero and Sole Survivor origins make any sense.


What do you mean?  Real people who are very flawed are sole survivors and war heroes IRL.

#36391
MassAffected

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They're too "fairy tale"? The Ruthless one is the more realistic Shepard...in my opinion. All the other ones tend to add to the "super" persona.

#36392
jtav

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MA: and I fear it'll remain in our heads. Too many variables. Just like I don't expect it to matter that Shep romanced Ashley, but left her to die on Virmire. But in my head, Shep's just as scared of losing Miranda as she is of losing him. He never wants to have to choose between love and the mission again. Far better to keep his distance. But he can't.

Modifié par jtav, 15 avril 2010 - 03:39 .


#36393
MassAffected

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The Ruthless background is more "war hero" than the WH background...this "I held the breach by myself" stuff just makes me roll my eyes. Its cool if you like it, I'm not trying to knock your opinion.

#36394
DarthCyclopsRLZ

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firecleaner wrote...

Elaborate please I dont understand how Sole Survivor and War Hero dont make sense


1. War Hero: Single-handledly holding the line/pwning batarians while being outnumbered and outgunned.   I'm not sure why I even need to elaborate. Sure, it's fun when Ahnold, Sly and Chuck Norris do it, but that's just the thing. It was fun. No one actually takes this seriously.

2. Sole Survivor: Depends whether you think Shep killed that Thresher Maw (s?) or just made it back to the landing zone.
a) Pwning a threshew maw without missiles or heavy artillery?
B) Outrunning a thresher maw?????

In both cases, it would've been a lot better to just have Shep rally troops and pull a big  move.
War Hero could've been some sort of heroic charge that actually worked.
Sole Survivor could've been a scenario similar to the Outpost scene in Starship Troopers.

#36395
Jebel Krong

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DarthCyclopsRLZ wrote...

firecleaner wrote...

Elaborate please I dont understand how Sole Survivor and War Hero dont make sense


1. War Hero: Single-handledly holding the line/pwning batarians while being outnumbered and outgunned.   I'm not sure why I even need to elaborate. Sure, it's fun when Ahnold, Sly and Chuck Norris do it, but that's just the thing. It was fun. No one actually takes this seriously.

2. Sole Survivor: Depends whether you think Shep killed that Thresher Maw (s?) or just made it back to the landing zone.
a) Pwning a threshew maw without missiles or heavy artillery?
B) Outrunning a thresher maw?????

In both cases, it would've been a lot better to just have Shep rally troops and pull a big  move.
War Hero could've been some sort of heroic charge that actually worked.
Sole Survivor could've been a scenario similar to the Outpost scene in Starship Troopers.


i don't think war hero is single-handed pawning of anything, it was more like his leadership that saved the day (one soldier against ships?!). even if it's not specifically stated, it is alluded to in me1...

#36396
MassAffected

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jtav wrote...

MA: and I fear it'll remain in our heads. Too many variables. Just like I don't expect it to matter that Shep romanced Ashley, but left her to die on Virmire. But in my head, Shep's just as scared of losing Miranda as she is of losing him. He never wants to have to choose between love and the mission again. Far better to keep his distance. But he can't.


I actually went back on doing that to Ash, the potential for drama if she lives is too "juicy" to pass up. So yeah, my Shep will "cheat" on Ash...more like after Horizon he will be over it knowing that two years can change a lot, even himself.

#36397
firecleaner

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I thought War Hero led civilians against the batarians? Also their have been US soldiers that have held off enemy positions and received the medal of honor.



http://en.wikipedia....Wilburn_K._Ross

#36398
DarthCyclopsRLZ

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Jebel Krong wrote...
i don't think war hero is single-handed pawning of anything, it was more like his leadership that saved the day (one soldier against ships?!). even if it's not specifically stated, it is alluded to in me1...

The codex entry (something about risking your own life) and the ME2 dialogue make it seem it was a one-man show.

#36399
MassAffected

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DarthCyclopsRLZ wrote...

firecleaner wrote...

Elaborate please I dont understand how Sole Survivor and War Hero dont make sense


1. War Hero: Single-handledly holding the line/pwning batarians while being outnumbered and outgunned.   I'm not sure why I even need to elaborate. Sure, it's fun when Ahnold, Sly and Chuck Norris do it, but that's just the thing. It was fun. No one actually takes this seriously.

2. Sole Survivor: Depends whether you think Shep killed that Thresher Maw (s?) or just made it back to the landing zone.
a) Pwning a threshew maw without missiles or heavy artillery?
B) Outrunning a thresher maw?????

In both cases, it would've been a lot better to just have Shep rally troops and pull a big  move.
War Hero could've been some sort of heroic charge that actually worked.
Sole Survivor could've been a scenario similar to the Outpost scene in Starship Troopers.


This sums up what I think about those two options as well.

#36400
SgtPotato

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MassAffected wrote...

jtav wrote...

MA: and I fear it'll remain in our heads. Too many variables. Just like I don't expect it to matter that Shep romanced Ashley, but left her to die on Virmire. But in my head, Shep's just as scared of losing Miranda as she is of losing him. He never wants to have to choose between love and the mission again. Far better to keep his distance. But he can't.


I actually went back on doing that to Ash, the potential for drama if she lives is too "juicy" to pass up. So yeah, my Shep will "cheat" on Ash...more like after Horizon he will be over it knowing that two years can change a lot, even himself.


Yea, My face will be like this when Miranda and Ash start killing each other:

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