43796 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

Morning folks.

Well, at least I seem to have sparked an interesting discussion.

[jtav]

Sometimes I just get a pitchfork-wielding mob sent after me.



Really, I wouldn't have Ash/Kaidan, Liara, Tali, Wrex, Miranda, Mordin or Legion be recruitable. All of them have other skills/contacts, and may be more useful in non-combat roles. Liara's a powerful information broker. Do I want to give up her resources for the sake of having another biotic on my team. Ash/Kaidan are officers who the Alliance will listen to. Mordin can cure the genophage. And so on.

[Ieldra]

Now you're getting more extreme, jtav, in suddenly preferring a not-recruitable Miranda. Did you ever see a game where non-recruitable characters had interesting stories of their own, something that included more than them standing around here and there for information? And what about the romance? Do we see that discontinued as well? Other than that, I've nothing left to say except I disagree passionately.

Maybe you should change your sig...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 avril 2010 - 12:59 .

[Ieldra]

Perhaps it's time to re-post something from the OP:

shinobi602 wrote

(1) We want Miranda to return as a squadmember. We don't want her to be just a cameo or have a few lines and then never hear from her again.

(2) Full-on relationship with her. We would love for the romance between her and Shepard to be expanded significantly.

(3) Much more dialogue between them, not just in between missions or certain checkpoints in the storyline.

(4) More than one "love scene" would be exquisite, as it would really portray the relationship as something very real, with a lot of substance, and pretty much show it as ongoing, so to speak, instead of 1, 2, 3 conversations, then ok, romance scene at the end. We don't want it to "culminate" into a final scene, we would love for it to be ongoing, a constant romance that you experience and feel throughout the game.

(5) Have our Shepard/Miri relationship recognized by others, more than what was in ME2. We'd love if everyone on the Normandy or other NPCs elsewhere had something to say or what their feeling towards the relationship is. It would be nice for others in the game to know that "Miranda and I are together."

(5) Have areas, scenes, or lines in the story or on missions where things change according to your romance. Meaning, it would be great if for example, you're on a mission or around the Citadel or planet and are interacting with NPCs, Miranda would have something to say if an NPC badmouths you or insults you. She could react or come to your defense. Or even better if the relationship were to be reflected in scenes in the game, and the scene would act out differently if you bring Miranda along on a dangerous mission for instance.

(6) Develop her backstory! It's unanimous that we want to know what's going on between her, her sister, and her father. A mission where we have a chance to take down her father would be incredible!

This, or something like it, is where things should go in ME3.

[jtav]

No, I wouldn't discontinue the romance. See the little scene I wrote upthread..

What I'd prefer is for Miranda to be recruitable, have whether or not she resigned and/or spoke to Oriana taken into account re: her character progression, her to have lots of party banter, a full romance arc, and a role in rebuilding the galaxy. I want TIM to be toast so I don't have to worry about him hunting her.

What I don't want is a party composed of nothing but LIs or for Miranda's interactions to suffer because the devs had 15 other party members to think about. Stupid budgets.

Actually, what I really want is for her to get her own game.

Modifié par jtav, 18 avril 2010 - 01:33 .

[jtav]

Forgive me, Ieldra. I just got finished with an ME playthrough with Garrus in my party and am a bit bitter that what I did to Saleon won't matter. I fear a similar treatment for Miranda. Give me time.

[epoch_]

jtav wrote...
 or for Miranda's interactions to suffer because the devs had 15 other party members to think about. Stupid budgets.

You want them to cut out everyone elses romance, just so yours can be better? That seems a little selfish. BioWare will no doubt treat all the old LI's the same, just like they did with ME2.

Now I don't know what that means. They could all come back, none of them could, but one things for sure, they'll all be treated equal.

[jtav]

No, no no! I'm saying that my fear is that, if Miranda is recruitable, then her characterization will suffer because the devs are also trying to handle the other ME/ME2 squad, plus new team mates. I would rather any given character have 30 minutes of great content that makes you feel like you made a difference in their life and they're making a difference in the galaxy.

[epoch_]

Ah ok, I see. I thought that was a really odd thing to say. 
I actually share that concern. Hell, even with the ME2 numbers the dialogues have begun to suffer.

Modifié par epoch_, 18 avril 2010 - 02:34 .

[jtav]

I would definitely reduce the size of the squad and give them more conversations. I would not have most of the old team recruitable, but I'd give then sugnucant roles. There are hints that you'll be recruiting an army in ME3. If Tali and Legion both survive, then you have the option of helping them to get their respective races to reconcile. Otherwise, you must choose one to support. And so on.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
What I don't want is a party composed of nothing but LIs or for Miranda's interactions to suffer because the devs had 15 other party members to think about. Stupid budgets.

I see. I think Bioware did rather well with those we have in ME2. Still, some are clearly expendable, and others are made in such a way that their removal is foreshadowed. I can't see, for instance, more than one krogan returning for ME3, which means either Wrex or Grunt will not return. I also think Jacob might not come back in spite of him being an LI. Together with Ashley or Kaidan and without the DLC characters that would be a cast of 10 characters. 
As for "a party of LIs", in any one game only one NPC can be an LI, maybe two if the pattern from ME2 and ME1 is continued, so if the others are mostly alternative LIs or those for another gender that's OK with me as long as they have enough non-romance-related things to say. 

Actually, what I really want is for her to get her own game.

Now you're getting extreme in the other direction. Her own game would be absolutely fantastic. BioWare has said Mass Effect is intended to be a franchise, so while it's wishful thinking at this time, it's not altogether out of the question if the ME games continue to be a success.

@epoch_
I do not think all characters will be treated equally. Even LI characters...see Jacob. I don't think they'll let such an unpopular character return. I haven't seen a single post where someone likes him as an LI. I also don't know about Jack and Thane since their backstory indicates they're made to be expendable. Their fans have clearly more to fear than we do.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 avril 2010 - 03:25 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I would definitely reduce the size of the squad and give them more conversations. I would not have most of the old team recruitable, but I'd give then sugnucant roles. There are hints that you'll be recruiting an army in ME3. If Tali and Legion both survive, then you have the option of helping them to get their respective races to reconcile. Otherwise, you must choose one to support. And so on.

Yes. I put the preference for a smaller squad in favor of expanded roles in the ME3 wishlist thread after my first playthrough - oh...was that 2 months ago? Let's see which characters could represent their factions or species after completing a mission or sequence of missions:

Miranda - Cerberus. Available as an ally after either killing TIM and putting Miranda in his place, or coming to an arrangement with him. The ME2 decision about the base may come in here.
Ashley/Kaidan - Alliance. Available as an ally if either Miranda heads Cerberus, or Cerberus is destroyed.
Legion - Geth. Available as an ally if you rewrote the heretic faction in ME2 *and* persuade the quarians to call off their war. Otherwise either not strong enough to matter or occupied with other things..
Tali - Quarians. Available as an ally if after persuading them to call off their war with the geth.
Wrex - Krogans. Available as an ally if Wrex was not killed in ME1 and perhaps some other decisions.

These are the characters I can see with big plot-related roles. How many of the others can be cut without being missed by too many fans, that's a question I'd rather not touch here. But they have already said that there will likely be "casualties", so to speak. Perhaps we'll have them as team members, but not as fleshed out.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 avril 2010 - 03:24 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@epoch_
I do not think all characters will be treated equally. Even LI characters...see Jacob. I don't think they'll let such an unpopular character return. I haven't seen a single post where someone likes him as an LI. I also don't know about Jack and Thane since their backstory indicates they're made to be expendable. Their fans have clearly more to fear than we do.

One problem with that thought, unless they are going to have 'alternate' conflicts for ME/ME2 love cheats dependent on characters involved, I highly doubt the LIs WON'T be returning. Bioware is going to have to cover all bases. They did so in ME-ME2 with the fact that if you didn't recruit Wrex whilst it is marked that he survived Virmire (coz he wasn't there) he never went back to Tuchanka and thus still ended up dead. So I think all LIs will be treated equally as they will have to take into account people that did LI the 'not so vocally supported' LIs.

Hell, Ash and Kaiden took a real ripping and yet still made it through.

As for casualties, yeah there will be... look

This was a default ME2 Shep as well so Wrex is dead, Legion sent to Cerberus, had no dealings with the Quarian Fleet other than speaking to Kal'Reegar and Veetor (whom I had sent to Cerberus) and getting an email from Tali's dad. Only went to Tuchanka to pick up some upgrades so didn't have any real dealings with the Krogan.

Yup in the follow up ME3 playthrough I can see those characters you listed Ieldra2 playing a big role for Jack Shepard

Oh and of course kept the base, stayed buddy with TIM and LIed Miranda (and recruited Kasumi post-suicide mission)

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 18 avril 2010 - 04:24 .

[epoch_]

You can't just go on the forum popularity. If they did, then you would probably be playing as tali in ME3. They have all the numbers. They keep track of everything that happens, which is really cool actually.



I'd be willing to bet more people romanced miranda than anyone else, including tali, by a healthy margin.

[Ieldra]

epoch_ wrote...
You can't just go on the forum popularity. If they did, then you would probably be playing as tali in ME3. They have all the numbers. They keep track of everything that happens, which is really cool actually.

No, not only. But popularity is a factor, as they themselves have admitted. As for having all the numbers (I take it you mean the real popularity of characters), of that I'm not so sure. You'd need a representative poll for that - and that's usually expensive. Or have the game send back data about in-game decisions. Does ME2 do that?

I'd be willing to bet more people romanced miranda than anyone else, including tali, by a healthy margin.

Really? Why would you think that? I know that the forums are a heavily weighted indicator of things, but this is something that never crossed my mind.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 avril 2010 - 04:23 .

[jtav]

I'm with Ulrich. Moving away from Miranda for a sec, let's take Garrus and Thane. As best I can tell, Thane is quite popular. If he gets a five minute cameo while Garrus gets full-on squaddie treatment with 4-5 romance dialogues, his fans will be pissed. Deservedly.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Miranda and Jacob are the Ash/Kaiden of ME2. If you kept them alive, they'll most likely return as guest stars with some sort of "payoff" if you romanced them and didn't sleep around. Kind of a pattern on this one, really.



Anyway, was messing around with the game's ini files and Miranda looks wicked with a sniper rifle. Too bad it felt ooc and I ended up sticking with her default arsenal, but oh well.

[jtav]

Miranda with a sniper rifle? *intrigued*



You know, I really blame Ascension for giving me all these ideas. Would there be any interest in a "proof of concept" script for the cameo?

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

jtav wrote...

Miranda with a sniper rifle? *intrigued*

The thought came to me while going through the Samara loyalty mission.

Shep and Samara's plan is just so much of epic fail.  The whole plan hinges on:
1. Shep pulling off the douchebag act and "seducing" a serial killer
2. Somehow, the whole of Omega wouldn't see Samara coming miles away, lol. As if she could do inconspicuous.
3. Morinth taking her sweet time or failing at doing her thing to Shep

I could see Miranda subtly advocating (read: glare) that they first track down the appartment, have a security team  (read:Thane) follow Shep around and have a sniper team for the latter part of the "mission".

I like the idea of Garrus complaining at how this is the lamest night out ever and Miranda snapping at how she won't let a 4 billions project get mind-raped to death because of an elevator. I mean, that's gotta be the sole reason why it took Samara that long, right?

Modifié par DarthCyclopsRLZ, 18 avril 2010 - 05:57 .

[jtav]

DarthCyclopsRLZ wrote...

jtav wrote...

Miranda with a sniper rifle? *intrigued*

The thought came to me while going through the Samara loyalty mission.

Shep and Samara's plan is just so much of epic fail.  The whole plan hinges on:
1. Shep pulling off the douchebag act and "seducing" a serial killer
2. Somehow, the whole of Omega wouldn't see Samara coming miles away, lol. As if she could do inconspicuous.
3. Morinth taking her sweet time or faling at doing her thing to Shep

I could see Miranda subtly advocating (read: glare) that they first track down the appartment, have a security team  (read:Thane) follow Shep around and have a sniper team for the latter part of the "mission".

I like the idea of Garrus complaining at how this is the lamest night out ever and Miranda snapping at how she won't let a 4 billions project get mind-reaped to death because of an elevator. I mean, that's gotta be the sole reason why it took Samara that long, right?

:lol: That's priceless!

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I'd totally see Shep give her the "Mama Bear" codename for this mission and Miranda threaten to do horrible things to Garrus if he did so much as utter said abomination.

Garrus: "Long Shot to Mama Bear, do you co..."
Miranda: "Billions of credits and galaxy be damned, I will slay the both of you."

Modifié par DarthCyclopsRLZ, 18 avril 2010 - 05:45 .

[Ieldra]

:lol:
That's a.good scene, DarthCyclopsRLZ. And right on time. This thread can do with a little comic relief after all the serious exchanges.

[jtav]

Do we keep any kind of gallery of Miranda screenshots? I'm looking for the couch cuddle pic, but don't feel like scouring the thread for it. What can I say, I'm in a romantic mood. I just wish you could have a little romantic chitchat after the suicide mission.



For some reason, I like to imagine the pair of them being way more secretive about the relationship then they need to be for their own amusement. Give it the air of a clandestine affair.

[epoch_]

Ieldra2 wrote...


 Or have the game send back data about in-game decisions. Does ME2 do that?
 

Yes, yes it does.

Modifié par epoch_, 18 avril 2010 - 06:56 .