43796 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

So many interesting little topics on one page....and I must go. But things will have to wait.

Good night.

[Annjul666]

what the.... over 1500? when tis happened.... ;P

congrats, eh. im too old for that xD

[jtav]

Good night, Ieldra.

I'm just bursting with Miranda related thoughts. For instance, she's a pretty good subversion/deconstruction of Mary Sue.

[Zulu_DFA]

Valmy wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Valmy wrote...

Her loyalty to Cerberus is not nearly as unconditional as you are led to believe at first.

This is her weak point. I lost all respect for her just for that, especially since she was advertised as Cerberus "loyalist".

...being blindly loyal to an organization is a trait worthy of respect?

She was also advertised as a femme fatale but she is not one of those either.

Joining an organization for selfish reasons, then pretending to be loyal to that organization's goals is not worthy of respect. With such "followers", I won't be suprised if TIM finally gets the notion, that the Humanity is himself!

[Valmy]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Joining an organization for selfish reasons, then pretending to be loyal to that organization's goals is not worthy of respect. With such "followers", I won't be suprised if TIM finally gets the notion, that the Humanity is himself!

True but she neither joined Cerberus for selfish reasons nor pretended she was loyal to the organizations goals.  She joined for ideological reasons and is loyal to the organizations goals.

But you cannot approve today what the organization might do tommorow.

Modifié par Valmy, 21 avril 2010 - 08:20 .

[Vyndael]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Joining an organization for selfish reasons, then pretending to be loyal to that organization's goals is not worthy of respect. With such "followers", I won't be suprised if TIM finally gets the notion, that the Humanity is himself!

Where in the game is this proven?

[jtav]

Hi, Vyn. You missed a hell of a discussion. Have you recovered from my outburst from last night.

[Vyndael]

jtav wrote...

Hi, Vyn. You missed a hell of a discussion. Have you recovered from my outburst from last night.

Damn it. Blame school. Um...a little. I admit I was laughing quite a bit. You left at quite a convenient time. 

[MrNose]

jtav wrote...

Collider, if they kept it to her Cerberus apologetics, I wouldn't have a problem. It's when they say she got her spot by sleeping with TIM or that the mere fact that the sex scene was in the engine room proves the relationship was a fling that I get angry.

I actually interpret the engine room thing as meaning that it's more than a fling.  A bedroom is a "standard" place for sex, and Shepard uses the word "settle" when mentioning his quarters.  

Sex is put at a disadvantage in the engine room.  By changing the setting from an ideal place for sex, Miranda communicates that it isn't just about sex. 

If it was about control, btw, she would have suggested her bedroom. 

[jtav]

Check out pages 1503-1504. Quite a lot of ranting about misogyny and such. I had fun. Made romance novel comparisons. Curious to see what you think.
It actually took three days to work up the nerve to make that post. I AM easily flustered.

Modifié par jtav, 21 avril 2010 - 08:31 .

[Vyndael]

jtav wrote...
Check out pages 1503-1504. Quite a lot of ranting about misogyny and such. I had fun. Made romance novel comparisons. Curious to see what you think.
It actually took three days to work up the nerve to make that post.

Haha! Three days! 

Well, I'll go catch up then.

[Zulu_DFA]

Vyndael wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Joining an organization for selfish reasons, then pretending to be loyal to that organization's goals is not worthy of respect. With such "followers", I won't be suprised if TIM finally gets the notion, that the Humanity is himself!

Where in the game is this proven?

Well, she states quite openly, that she ran to TIM for protection against her father. I can't blame her for that, but it raises the question whether she ever was concerned with "Humanity - first" agenda before joining. And, from youtube we (and some of us first hand) know that she is capable of outright betrayal of Cerberus. In any case, she second-guesses the decision to retain the Collector base for Cerberus. Which makes her far worse a "loyalist", than *my* Shepard, for example.

[Collider]

To be honest, Bioware also called Jack a psychopath despite her being rather mild (in comparison to what a "psychopath" may act like) on the Normandy if you go to speak with her.

[jtav]

Yes. Three days. I'll be available for teasing, flaming, discussion, etc all evening.

[Vyndael]

@Zulu: I think she was concerned to an extent. For all we know, she could have believed in their goals when she was still with her father and she has seen some of the worst traits humanity can offer in the man who created her. You know, two birds with one stone. Not really a betrayal because she refused to follow orders and resigned. She was loyal to humanity's best interests.
@Collider: Yeah, I never really thought much about the titles Bioware gave them. Always figured it was for the hype.
@Jtav: Ha! Sweet.

Modifié par Vyndael, 21 avril 2010 - 08:49 .

[InbredBart]

jtav wrote...


Have I mentioned how much I love that she never needs rescuing.

none of that 'damsel in distress' cliche I also like that fact a lot.. it's been mentioned a number of times in this thread that Miranda can be basically viewed as an equal to Shepard (both in game terms and character-wise)

Modifié par InbredBart, 21 avril 2010 - 08:54 .

[Collider]

Has anyone sided with Miranda, rather than using charm or intimidate, in the Miranda/Jack fight? What does Shepard say, do you get any renegade points?

[InbredBart]

I remember I did side with her in my second playtrough.. I'm not sure if there were any serious Paragon/Renegade implications though.. will try it out soon though because my third Shep is getting close to that confrontation

Modifié par InbredBart, 21 avril 2010 - 08:59 .

[jtav]

I love it. I also love that even a romanced Shep isn't the most important person in her life. It will always be Oriana. Paradoxically, that makes her a better LI because she isn't swallowed up by Shep.

It's why I have nightmares about her saying "I couldn't let you go" in ME3.

[InbredBart]

jtav wrote...


It's why I have nightmares about her saying "I couldn't let you go" in ME3.

I think you can sleep well, because none of that is going to happen (not with Miranda at least.. )

Modifié par InbredBart, 21 avril 2010 - 09:05 .

[MassAffected]

I've always used the Para/Ren options so I didn't lose loyalty...this time around I'm siding with Jack for my "canon" run.

[InbredBart]

MassAffected wrote...

I've always used the Para/Ren options so I didn't lose loyalty...this time around I'm siding with Jack for my "canon" run.

I think I might go that way on my next playthrough..or myabe I'm just lying to myself

[MassAffected]

InbredBart wrote...

MassAffected wrote...

I've always used the Para/Ren options so I didn't lose loyalty...this time around I'm siding with Jack for my "canon" run.

I think I might go that way on my next playthrough..or myabe I'm just lying to myself

I hate the feeling that I get for not speaking out against what happened to Jack...when in reality I would side with Jack every single time.

[icarus414]

I dunno. Shepard is aware that Jack can probably rip Miri into very small pieces very quickly if she tried to, and things looked to escalate to serious violence in short order if something wasn't done. I just reflexively sided with Miranda and told Jack to back off, and frankly, right or wrong, I'd likely do the same IRL. But maybe that's just me.

Modifié par icarus414, 21 avril 2010 - 09:22 .

[InbredBart]

when in reality I would side with Jack every single time.

frankly, I dunno about that..I kinda get the whole 'difficult childchood' vibe but she seems too much of a loose cannon to me maybe that's why I either remained faithful to my ME LI or romanced Miri

Modifié par InbredBart, 21 avril 2010 - 09:25 .