43796 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

This probably too much to ask, but I wish we knew if the Lazarus Project affected how fast Shepard aged. It would make imagining far future (20-30 years in) scenarios easier. If he ages normally, there's going to come a point where he looks (and in some ways is) significantly older. His 80s will be her 50s. Or it could go the other way, with his cybernetics giving him a much longer lifespan than hers. Interesting, either way. The romantic in me wants his aging speed to match hers.

[Valmy]

Collider wrote...

I don't see anything wrong with the word feminist. There are some misconceptions applied to the word and it's adherents, but that's not the most important.

It is important.  When I use a word I need to know what exactly it is that I am saying.  When it comes to complex academic words like 'Feminism' I am not sure exactly what it is I am saying.  If all I am indeed saying is I think women are just as valuable as men then I will gladly use the word but I think it refers to something a great deal more complicated than that.

[Collider]

It doesn't, that's the thing. Feminism as it's core is the belief that women are at least of equal worth to men. There are bad apples that tarnish the image of any major group. The important thing is that those bad apples do not represent the group they are members of.

[Valmy]

jtav wrote...

This probably too much to ask, but I wish we knew if the Lazarus Project affected how fast Shepard aged. It would make imagining far future (20-30 years in) scenarios easier. If he ages normally, there's going to come a point where he looks (and in some ways is) significantly older. His 80s will be her 50s. Or it could go the other way, with his cybernetics giving him a much longer lifespan than hers. Interesting, either way. The romantic in me wants his aging speed to match hers.

I think the goal was to bring him back as close to how he was as possible.  If they had wanted to improve him I suppose they could have given him super strength and lightening reflexes and improved biotics and the like.

[Valmy]

Collider wrote...

It doesn't, that's the thing. Feminism as it's core is the belief that women are at least of equal worth to men. There are bad apples that tarnish the image of any major group. The important thing is that those bad apples do not represent the group they are members of.

Hmmm interesting...why did you use 'at least of equal worth'?

Anyway if that is all there is to it I would hope we are all Feminists.

[Collider]

Valmy wrote...

jtav wrote...

This probably too much to ask, but I wish we knew if the Lazarus Project affected how fast Shepard aged. It would make imagining far future (20-30 years in) scenarios easier. If he ages normally, there's going to come a point where he looks (and in some ways is) significantly older. His 80s will be her 50s. Or it could go the other way, with his cybernetics giving him a much longer lifespan than hers. Interesting, either way. The romantic in me wants his aging speed to match hers.

I think the goal was to bring him back as close to how he was as possible.  If they had wanted to improve him I suppose they could have given him super strength and lightening reflexes and improved biotics and the like.

I am suddenly reminded of Bioshock
On the subject at hand, I'd wager that Miranda would probably have a higher lifespan, at least because we're given an indication so whereas with Shepard we aren't. I imagine that Shepard may have gotten some upgrades, but as Valmy said they also did not want him to be incredibly different.

[jtav]

Miranda says she'll likely live half again as long as the average human, and how she looks at 35 would bear that out. I'm just trying to figure out how that would affect her romance with Shepard, especially once the discrepancy becomes noticeable.

[Ieldra]

Collider wrote...

Valmy wrote...

jtav wrote...
This probably too much to ask, but I wish we knew if the Lazarus Project affected how fast Shepard aged. It would make imagining far future (20-30 years in) scenarios easier. If he ages normally, there's going to come a point where he looks (and in some ways is) significantly older. His 80s will be her 50s. Or it could go the other way, with his cybernetics giving him a much longer lifespan than hers. Interesting, either way. The romantic in me wants his aging speed to match hers.

I think the goal was to bring him back as close to how he was as possible.  If they had wanted to improve him I suppose they could have given him super strength and lightening reflexes and improved biotics and the like.

On the subject at hand, I'd wager that Miranda would probably have a higher lifespan, at least because we're given an indication so whereas with Shepard we aren't. I imagine that Shepard may have gotten some upgrades, but as Valmy said they also did not want him to be incredibly different.

If the game does not tell us that there's no change in Shepard's lifespan, and procedures have been done on him that could plausibly result in a longer lifespan (which have been done), then we are completely justified in believing what suits us best - in my case, I want Shepard and Miranda to age at a similar speed.

Ah, and as I understand it, ageing is largely a function of accumulated gene decay, so if Shepard's been rebuilt with newly synthetized cells, then his age might have been reset a bit.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 avril 2010 - 07:54 .

[MrNose]

Valmy wrote...

Collider wrote...

I don't see anything wrong with the word feminist. There are some misconceptions applied to the word and it's adherents, but that's not the most important.

It is important.  When I use a word I need to know what exactly it is that I am saying.  When it comes to complex academic words like 'Feminism' I am not sure exactly what it is I am saying.  If all I am indeed saying is I think women are just as valuable as men then I will gladly use the word but I think it refers to something a great deal more complicated than that.

The word feminist can mean like a billion different things.  I ran a newspaper this year and the chair of a woman's group wrote a feminist column.  The first article was basically a list of the various types of feminism.  That's why it's good to delineate what you mean when you talk about feminism.  

In general, feminism is not just about equality.  It entails looking at the world as fundamentally gendered, and embracing certain tenets of marxist academic thought, i.e. viewing the world in terms of [gendered] power relationships.

Modifié par MrNose, 22 avril 2010 - 07:54 .

[jtav]

I know BW didn't want to overwhelm us with either angst or pseudoscience, but I wish we could have asked Miranda about some of this stuff. "What's changed? Am I still me? How'd you restore my memories? Can I have kids someday?" Preferably long before the romance started.

[Valmy]

MrNose wrote...
The word feminist can mean like a billion different things.  I ran a newspaper this year and the chair of a woman's group wrote a feminist column.  The first article was basically a list of the various types of feminism.  That's why it's good to delineate what you mean when you talk about feminism.  

In general, feminism is not just about equality.  It entails looking at the world as fundamentally gendered, and embracing certain tenets of marxist academic thought, i.e. viewing the world in terms of [gendered] power relationships.

Yeah it is this last part, the sort of Michel Foucault/Karl Marx stuff, that makes me a little leery.  I am not too interested in viewing the world in terms of power relationships.

[Valmy]

jtav wrote...

I know BW didn't want to overwhelm us with either angst or pseudoscience, but I wish we could have asked Miranda about some of this stuff. "What's changed? Am I still me? How'd you restore my memories? Can I have kids someday?" Preferably long before the romance started.

It seems to me the only extent that any changes in Shep are explored in game is how the implants and scars on his face make him more evil looking if he goes renegade.

[MrNose]

Valmy wrote...

jtav wrote...

I know BW didn't want to overwhelm us with either angst or pseudoscience, but I wish we could have asked Miranda about some of this stuff. "What's changed? Am I still me? How'd you restore my memories? Can I have kids someday?" Preferably long before the romance started.

It seems to me the only extent that any changes in Shep are explored in game is how the implants and scars on his face make him more evil looking if he goes renegade.

That's because of the physiognomy implant they gave him.

But I totally agree with you jtav, I wondered about that too.  Everyone approaches it as "oh, you're alive again, that's surprising to me", and no one goes into the details.

[Ray Joel Oh]

I've noticed that many guys tend to view feminism as an inherently misandrist position, and that's part of why it gets treated as such a bad word. But doing so is disrespectful to the history of women's rights and the advancements that self-proclaimed feminists have accomplished. That's the biggest reason why I think it's a word worth holding onto--we shouldn't feel ashamed of the women who got loud and pushy to get things done.

[Collider]

History is why I think there's nothing wrong with the term. Granted, there are some who take it too far, but that's few and far between.
P.S. I don't believe for a second that feminists have to believe in marxism.

Modifié par Collider, 22 avril 2010 - 09:21 .

[Vyndael]

Wtf? Feminism? Marxism?



*goes to catch up on the past couple pages*

[Ray Joel Oh]

Yeah, and when people equate feminism with something bad it makes me wonder if they want things back to the way they were in the 50s, or even the 1800s. And being a "girl gamer" makes it an abrasive subject since every other gaming forum on the internet is so rife with sexism (less on these forums than in many places, but still). It is a medium dominated by the male demographic, and many guys have a very specific idea of the sorts of roles female characters should be playing. Say otherwise and you're a "feminazi."

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 22 avril 2010 - 09:35 .

[jtav]

Something interesting from the character discussion group:

Nightwriter said:
I thought Miranda's whole loyalty mission was quite touching.

It was so sad the way Miranda kept insisting Oriana know nothing about
her. As if Miranda's very presence would pollute her sister's "normal"
world somehow.

"No, they're completely normal. I don't want them to know anything."

And prodding her to talk to her sister there at the end was a great touch,
too. Makes you wonder. Oriana is probably what Miranda would be like if
she'd been raised beyond her father's reach - smart, talented, but also
funny, charming, and good-natured. Healthy.

I'm starting to feel sorry for her again. It's almost like she thinks she doesn't deserve to be happy.

Modifié par jtav, 22 avril 2010 - 09:44 .

[MrNose]

Yeah.  Miranda's loyalty mission is fantastic.  Much better than 99% of the others.  I did enjoy Samara fighting her vampire daughter though.

Collider wrote...

History is why I think there's nothing wrong with the term. Granted, there are some who take it too far, but that's few and far between.
P.S. I don't believe for a second that feminists have to believe in marxism.

I wrote a rather long post in response to this.  It talked about how the modern feminist movement was invariably linked to dialectical materialism (marxism), etc.  Then I mentioned that individual feminism, which is what most people espouse (and is grounded in the first wave of feminism), is very different from the contemporary feminist movement as it is not part of a shared, socially constructed ideology.  But then I decided not to.

P.S. Philosophical marxism =/= political marxism, if that's what you thought.  Philosophical marxists can be fiscal conservatives.

Modifié par MrNose, 22 avril 2010 - 10:16 .

[TheSixthghoul]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Valmy wrote...

jtav wrote...
This probably too much to ask, but I wish we knew if the Lazarus Project affected how fast Shepard aged. It would make imagining far future (20-30 years in) scenarios easier. If he ages normally, there's going to come a point where he looks (and in some ways is) significantly older. His 80s will be her 50s. Or it could go the other way, with his cybernetics giving him a much longer lifespan than hers. Interesting, either way. The romantic in me wants his aging speed to match hers.

I think the goal was to bring him back as close to how he was as possible.  If they had wanted to improve him I suppose they could have given him super strength and lightening reflexes and improved biotics and the like.

On the subject at hand, I'd wager that Miranda would probably have a higher lifespan, at least because we're given an indication so whereas with Shepard we aren't. I imagine that Shepard may have gotten some upgrades, but as Valmy said they also did not want him to be incredibly different.

If the game does not tell us that there's no change in Shepard's lifespan, and procedures have been done on him that could plausibly result in a longer lifespan (which have been done), then we are completely justified in believing what suits us best - in my case, I want Shepard and Miranda to age at a similar speed.

Ah, and as I understand it, ageing is largely a function of accumulated gene decay, so if Shepard's been rebuilt with newly synthetized cells, then his age might have been reset a bit.

On the topic of life spans has anyone imported a pc that looked completely normal, but once imported develops crows feet?

[MrNose]

Sixth Goul wrote...

On the topic of life spans has anyone imported a pc that looked completely normal, but once imported develops crows feet?

Yes. 

My Shep looks older.
(I actually think its mostly because of the tweaks that they made to texture and lighting.)

Modifié par MrNose, 23 avril 2010 - 12:38 .

[icarus414]

jtav wrote...

Something interesting from the character discussion group:

Nightwriter said:
I thought Miranda's whole loyalty mission was quite touching.

It was so sad the way Miranda kept insisting Oriana know nothing about her. As if Miranda's very presence would pollute her sister's "normal" world somehow.

"No, they're completely normal. I don't want them to know anything."

And prodding her to talk to her sister there at the end was a great touch, too. Makes you wonder. Oriana is probably what Miranda would be like if she'd been raised beyond her father's reach - smart, talented, but also funny, charming, and good-natured. Healthy.

I'm starting to feel sorry for her again. It's almost like she thinks she doesn't deserve to be happy.

Bang on, I reckon, and tied back into her general issues of self-worth. This is why she needs Shepard. (And let's not make this a gender thing - see my post a few pages back. People are allowed to need each other. No man/woman/hermaphrodite is an island, and all that).

As an aside, why can't we all be feminists and masculists*? Women in the western world get shafted when it comes to wages and promotions, while men get shafted in the arenas of reproductive and family law. Both are wrong, and both need to be fixed. In fact, why don't we just call ourselves "gender egalitarians" and leave it at that? Leave the Marxism (whether political or philosophical) out of it entirely. Not that there's anything wrong with Marxism. Well, there's probably a lot wrong with Marxism, just like every other philosophy yet concieved, but let's leave that particular can of worms alone, shall we?





*Yes, it's a word.

[jtav]

I don't know that she needs Shepard specifically. Name a possible Miranda pairing and I've probably at least thought about it. But she needs some friend or lover who will give her emotional support she's clearly not getting pre-game. She needs someone for whom she is "worth it" for her own sake and not her abilities. And she needs to be treated as such so that one day she'll believe it.

[icarus414]

That's probably a much better way of putting it. I agree completely.

Huh. You know, I'm not sure I've ever said that on the internet before. Hooray for reasonable discussion!

(Nearest I could get to a party hat).

Modifié par icarus414, 23 avril 2010 - 01:09 .

[gutty47]

icarus414 wrote...

Women in the western world get shafted

Out of context quoting is fun.

Sidenote: The gutter is a comfortable place for the mind.