43796 réponses à ce sujet

[MrNose]

Valmy wrote...

MrNose wrote...
Of course, that's an issue with ME as a whole.  Shepard is largely defined by the people around him.  He never addresses his own past, only other people in the series do. 

....Shep DOES have a past.  He has an origin story and a background.  It was addressed to some extent in both games.

Never said that he doesn't.  What I said is that he doesn't address it.  When you talk to people they willingly speak about their own past.  Shep never speaks about his past unless it is specifically brought up by another character.
This annoys me.  I want to be able to talk more about Alex Shepard's past.  How many times has he actually given an opinion on his past?  I can only recall on the shuttle when Miranda asks about surviving Akuze.

kraidy1117 wrote...

DarthCyclopsRLZ wrote...

Valmy wrote...

I
guess I also interpreted that line differently.  I thought she was
saying that what the rogue people did to Jack was a mistake, not
something Cerberus intended.  How is that calculated to hurt?  I think
saying it wasn't a mistake and what happened to Jack was something she
deserved would be worse.  I thought she was being defensive rather than
trying to tell Jack her entire life was a mistake or something.

No,
Miranda was being a total b**** on this one and saying that Jack was
the mistake. In which *exact* capacity we'll never know, but there's no
way it could be anywhere near civil.  Paragon Shep did *not* approve
even though he wussed out of pissing off either, lol.

So was Jack, in fact Jack was more of a bi*ch then Miri, Miri was very calm, until she made that stupid comment.

I'm on Miri's side here.  To me "you were a mistake" means "project Zero."  Because that's what the project turned her into, and yeah, that was a mistake.  Not tactful to be sure, but again, I don' t expect people to be tactful when they're being threatened by a God-Powered serial killer. 

jtav wrote...

Yes, she inspires respect. Never love.
Never loyalty. She's very good at figuring out what needs to be done
and why, but she completely lacks charisma.

Miranda notes that she has problems with securing loyalty, but "never loyalty?"  I disagree.  Jacob is clearly loyal to her, and it appears that Miranda is loyal to him as well.  Of course, she also has the love of my Shepard, and gained his loyalty during her loyalty mission.  Someone who does anything for their family will earn my loyalty every time.

Miranda sucks with words.  She does it through action though, never through words.  She's just too closed a person.

I think Miri would be a cool friend, but that's because I like ambitious and challenging people.  I'm also intrigued by people who have dealt with dark pasts without being broken by them.

[TheSixthghoul]

jtav wrote...

She wanted to put a control chip in Shep's head. I prize free will very highly. It's our capacity for moral choice that makes us human. I find the fact that Miranda wanted to interfere with that pretty repulsive.

Yet, I dont. I guess it how you look at it. My shepard would say something like this... Shepard: Wow,you could had me any position you wanted. BONG!!!

[jtav]

Valmy wrote...

She is all about the mission.  Shep was already dead and if they were going to go through all the trouble to bring him back they might as well make sure he is not going to betray them.  From a mission standpoint it makes sense.

From a mission standpoint, yes. From a ethical standpoint, I can't justify that. There are some acts I hold are intrinsic evils. This kind of thing is one. It's why I found Feros so horrifying. Shepard has a right to make his own moral choices. 4 billion credits doesn't buy that kind of power.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Miranda > Jack,

Jack had no right to attack Miranda since she had nothing to do with that project. Still, Miranda clearly acted like a callous b**ch and couldn't have been more full of it with tje "rogue cells" argument, lol.

I seem to recall some pretty dawning evidence during Jack's loyalty mission. For Miranda to *still* defend Cerberus after it is rather baffling since there's actual evidence saying otherwise.

Modifié par DarthCyclopsRLZ, 23 avril 2010 - 09:57 .

[kraidy1117]

jtav wrote...

Valmy wrote...

She is all about the mission.  Shep was already dead and if they were going to go through all the trouble to bring him back they might as well make sure he is not going to betray them.  From a mission standpoint it makes sense.

From a mission standpoint, yes. From a ethical standpoint, I can't justify that. There are some acts I hold are intrinsic evils. This kind of thing is one. It's why I found Feros so horrifying. Shepard has a right to make his own moral choices. 4 billion credits doesn't buy that kind of power.

It is unethical, but Miri was looking at the saftey of Cerberus, TIM wanted Shepard just like he was because a mind chip would have done alot of damage.

[MrNose]

jtav wrote...

Valmy wrote...

She is all about the mission.  Shep was already dead and if they were going to go through all the trouble to bring him back they might as well make sure he is not going to betray them.  From a mission standpoint it makes sense.

From a mission standpoint, yes. From a ethical standpoint, I can't justify that. There are some acts I hold are intrinsic evils. This kind of thing is one. It's why I found Feros so horrifying. Shepard has a right to make his own moral choices. 4 billion credits doesn't buy that kind of power.

Oh yeah she's totally unethical.  A very ends-justify-the-means type of person, at least at the beginning of the series.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

kraidy1117 wrote...

It is unethical, but Miri was looking at the saftey of Cerberus, TIM wanted Shepard just like he was because a mind chip would have done alot of damage.

Default Sole Survivor Shep would beat TIM to death with his own arms.You'd think TIM would've thought that Miranda might've been onto something here. I *know* you just don't off a character voiced by President Sheen, but still..

Modifié par DarthCyclopsRLZ, 23 avril 2010 - 10:08 .

[MrNose]

DarthCyclopsRLZ wrote...

Default Sole Survivor Shep would beat TIM to death with his own arms.You'd think TIM would've thought that Miranda might've been onto something here. I *know* you just don't off a character voiced by President Sheen, but still..

I'm still impressed with that "get".

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

We *are* talking about Sheen's awesomeness, right?

[jtav]

The sad thing? She's probably the most ethical project lead Cerberus has, and her moral compass still doesn't point quite north. She is not what's normally meant by a good person. What she is is fiercely loyal to those she loves, capable of great generosity and affection. But she is also ruthless, with very few things she won't do in pursuit of her goals if she thinks it's the most efficient way.



Okay, that came off a bit harsh. I have a complex relationship with Miranda.

[icarus414]

Heh. Don't we all...

Incidentally, is it just me or is there a very high proportion of Sole Survivor Shepards around here?

Modifié par icarus414, 23 avril 2010 - 10:43 .

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

icarus414 wrote...

Heh. Don't we all...

Incidentally, is it just me or are there a very high proportion of Sole Survivor Shepards around here?

Sole Survivor Shep = Starship Troopers awesomess.

A no-brainer, really.

Modifié par DarthCyclopsRLZ, 23 avril 2010 - 10:55 .

[TheSixthghoul]

icarus414 wrote...

Heh. Don't we all...

Incidentally, is it just me or is there a very high proportion of Sole Survivor Shepards around here?

Why is that? Sole survivor is so lame,come on thrasher ,really?!

[jtav]

Never read Starship Troopers. No desire to. It's just Miranda is a devoted member of the organization responsible for the most traumatic event of a Sole Survivor's life. Lots of dramatic potential for fanfic writers such as myself.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Sixth Goul wrote...

Why is that? Sole survivor is so lame,come on thrasher ,really?!

Edit:  Also, think of the comedy potential during those Mira/Shep convos
about Cerberus.

Miranda: I'm totally awesome at reading people.
Even if it's only during brief encounters.
Shep: ...50 marines!
Miranda: Oh great, here we...
Shep: Dozen mores!!!
Miranda: Not this again
Shep: Your boss is a murderous supremacist nutjob, Miranda! And you keep saying he's merely...
Miranda: Clearly misunderstood! Making hard choices is quite the burden, Shepard. You of
 all people should know. I remember someone making such decisions during his big quest
Shep:...
Shep: It's not hard choices if you don't  care in the slightest about people dying!  Hell, you know about these
*allegedly* rogue cells! How can you not foresee you being proven wrong??
Miranda: My story and not changing it.
Shep: ...
Shep: Fine,I'm still bringing you along, but I'll pointedly ignore any insight youmight provide on potential squadmates.
Miranda: Even if they're psychotic sociopaths who would basically vow to murder another
squadmate?
Shep: Yes, even so. Well, maybe moreso.

Honestly, the only theory that works for me is that Miranda's gratitude and the debt she thinks she owes to Cerberus blinds her a little, eh.

Modifié par DarthCyclopsRLZ, 23 avril 2010 - 10:57 .

[jtav]

She's a willfully blind member of a terrorist organization. No question on that for me. *waits patiently for pitchfork wielding mob*



I still like her.

[kraidy1117]

jtav wrote...

She's a willfully blind member of a terrorist organization. No question on that for me. *waits patiently for pitchfork wielding mob*

I still like her.

*grabs pitchfork*

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

jtav wrote...

She's a willfully blind member of a terrorist organization. No question on that for me. *waits patiently for pitchfork wielding mob*

I still like her.

So, she doesn't really mean *any* of her 'rogue cells' diatribes?

I... I didn't quite get that impression from the game. I rather got the impression she somehow believes there was a line TIM wouldn't cross somewhere waaayyy down.

[jtav]

I think we're agreeing, Darth.

Cerberus is a terrorist organization. Miranda clings to the "rogue cell" theory in the face of so much evidence that my only explanation is willful blindness to the true nature of he organization.

[kraidy1117]

Well we do know some operations go rouge.......................... *looks at the Accession project*

[jtav]

There's "some" and then there's "all other ops we've ever heard of." Yeah, right.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

jtav wrote...

I think we're agreeing, Darth.
Cerberus is a terrorist organization. Miranda clings to the "rogue cell" theory in the face of so much evidence that my only explanation is willful blindness to the true nature of he organization.

No, we're not. I'm saying it's a combination of willing and *hopeful* blindness.

She knows TIM is a ruthless f*** who doesn't mind people dying for the sake of the big picture, but somehow she thinks he wouldn't go *that* far in select instances.

Emphasis on the "select".

Modifié par DarthCyclopsRLZ, 23 avril 2010 - 11:14 .

[kraidy1117]

jtav wrote...

There's "some" and then there's "all other ops we've ever heard of." Yeah, right.

I do think that the subject zero project went rouge, but every op? Not at all, some go rouge but not all of them do and alot must be succesful if Miri is still alive.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

kraidy1117 wrote...

I do think that the subject zero project went rouge, but every op? Not at all, some go rouge but not all of them do and alot must be succesful if Miri is still alive.

As far as we know, Miranda couldn't be bothered to remember squishy red shirts who died for more than one mission, lol.

Anyway, I'm off for a jog and then it's poker game while watching a canadian hockey team get crushed out of the playoffs. And then guys' night out.

Good evening, y'all.

Modifié par DarthCyclopsRLZ, 23 avril 2010 - 11:22 .

[kraidy1117]

DarthCyclopsRLZ wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

I do think that the subject zero project went rouge, but every op? Not at all, some go rouge but not all of them do and alot must be succesful if Miri is still alive.

As far as we know, Miranda couldn't be bothered to remember squishy red shirts who died for more than one mission, lol.

Anyway, I'm off for a jog and then it's poker game while watching a canadian hockey team get crushed out of the playoffs. And then guys' night out.

Good evening, y'all.

:crying::crying::crying::crying: