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[Nightwriter]

Valmy wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Really? I remember her doing an interview where she said her body looked quite "disproportionate."

She was trying to say they made her hips wider and her boobs bigger.  Which is unfortunately probably disproportionate for a woman that lacking in body fat.

Really? I never really noticed her being conspicuously skinny... I mean, not like Calista Flockhart or Laura Flynn Boyle skinny... she always seemed like she had the proper amount of body fat to me.

But then I heard the camera can screw with how much you look like you weigh, or something.

[Ieldra]

Nightwriter wrote...

Valmy wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Really? I remember her doing an interview where she said her body looked quite "disproportionate."

She was trying to say they made her hips wider and her boobs bigger.  Which is unfortunately probably disproportionate for a woman that lacking in body fat.

Really? I never really noticed her being conspicuously skinny... I mean, not like Calista Flockhart or Laura Flynn Boyle skinny... she always seemed like she had the proper amount of body fat to me.

But then I heard the camera can screw with how much you look like you weigh, or something.

No, I think it's Valmy who has a skewed sense of proportion.

[Valmy]

Ieldra2 wrote...

No, I think it's Valmy who has a skewed sense of proportion.

[Valmy]

Nightwriter wrote...
But then I heard the camera can screw with how much you look like you weigh, or something.

I think this is the deal.  She looks fine on camera but then some pictures of her are really surprising.

But anyway this topic clearly is a matter of opinion.

[Valmy]

jtav wrote...
I find Ms. "promise me you won't die" falling for the dying man despite everything too romantic for words.

Ah, star crossed lovers.

[fongiel24]

Trying to kill everyone off is difficult but far more easily done if you don't recruit Zaeed (not sure about Kasumi). I realize this has been summarized a million times before but I'll write this up just because I spent an entire afternoon trying to achieve a total wipe and I'll feel slightly less bad about the experience if I can share it .

If you don't install any upgrades, Jack, Tali, and Thane will die (provided you don't take any of them with you to fight the occulus). Once you're in the base, anybody you send in the pipes besides Tali, Legion, or Kasumi will die. Put anybody in charge of the fireteam in the first part besides a loyal Miranda, Garrus, or Jacob and the specialist in the pipes will die too. For the biotic bubble, use anybody besides a loyal Samara/Morinth or Jack and somebody in your party will die. For the second fireteam leader, any leader but Miranda or a loyal Garrus/Jacob will die (Miranda has plot immunity until the human reaper). Any unloyal team member sent to escort the crew of the Normandy will always die (a loyal team member will always live). Taking any unloyal team members to take with you to the human reaper will always die (if both die, Shepherd dies too). The holding the line part is more difficult. Loyal team members have a better chance of survival but "hardier" team members (the soldiers like Garrus basically) have a good chance of surviving and increasing the overall odds of survival for the group.

So... the "ideal" way to kill off your entire team is making sure you send the hardier team members on missions where they will be guaranteed to be killed. Send Jacob into the pipes. Send an unloyal Grunt to escort the Normandy crew. Take your two toughest team members with you on the long walk and put Miranda in charge of the biotic bubble. Put another hardy character in charge of the second fireteam. When you have to select a team for the reaper, take the two toughest unloyal characters with you and leave the "squishiest" team behind to hold the door. If you're very lucky, at this point you should have only Tali and Mordin left to hold the line and they usually both die (if unloyal). This is why you should generally not recruit Zaeed and Kasumi - having either of them in the rearguard will always increase the overall chances of survival, particularly Zaeed.

Kinda interesting from an RP POV: on one attempt I made Miranda my only loyal team member and took her with me to the reaper. Normally, having just one loyal team member at this point will guarantee Shepherd's survival. However, as I had wiped my entire team, when the time came for Shepherd to jump... Miranda just stepped into the Normandy to leave Joker to pull Shepherd up. Joker obviously failed and Shepherd fell to his death, leaving Miranda and Joker the only two crew members of the Normandy as survivors. So I guess story-wise, it is possible for Miranda to betray Shepherd.

Modifié par fongiel24, 28 avril 2010 - 09:10 .

[fongiel24]

My internet is lagging and I didn't see that the edit to my first post went through. Sorry!

Modifié par fongiel24, 28 avril 2010 - 09:16 .

[jtav]

Valmy, you have me. I'm a romantic at heart. Besides, I get tired of rehashing the whole "I like you. I hate Cerberus" attitude that my Sheps default to.

[fongiel24]

Vulgus Presencia wrote...

Every team member will do that if they are the only one to survive. idk why really maybe they are disappointed in shepard.

It's a game mechanic thing. Other than Kasumi's loyalty mission, the game always requires at least 2 squad members. If you survive and choose to keep playing, it'd be impossible to do any more missions with only 1 character. That's my guess.

[Strikor2115]

ok I fixed her face. any other suggestions?

[fongiel24]

Wow, that looks great. I wish I could draw like that. If I have to be picky though, her left wrist and hand look a little strange, like they should be more slender. Other than that, I think it looks right.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

@Strikor, The mouth looks a bit too big as does the overall shape of the head.



@Everyone, going on the assumption that Miri's dad is the Shadow Broker. Do you think if she didn't know that but were to find out in ME3 that she would do something about it?



Before anyone says "He can't be the SB as the SB been around longer than humans have." anyone seen or read 'The Princess Bride'? If so, could the SB not be the Dread Pirate Roberts of the ME verse? It could explain the whole fascination with wanting Miri and then Oriana as his successor would it not?

[jtav]

I still don't believe the theory. It took him over fifteen years to find Oriana. Also, the antagonism between the SB and Cerberus seems fairly recent.

[Collider]

Miranda's father being the Shadow Broker doesn't seem to make sense.

[fongiel24]

I don't buy it either. Miranda's father is said to be deeply prohuman and wants to build a dynasty. The Shadow Broker sells information for money and remains as anonymous as possible while doing it. One is an egomaniacal racist and the other is a pure mercenary. Their goals seem incompatible.



I'm currently working on a fic exploring ruthless Shepherd's background. What do you guys see as his possible motivations? How do you think he would react to Cerberus and Miranda's way of doing things?

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

fongiel24 wrote...

I don't buy it either. Miranda's father is said to be deeply prohuman and wants to build a dynasty. The Shadow Broker sells information for money and remains as anonymous as possible while doing it. One is an egomaniacal racist and the other is a pure mercenary. Their goals seem incompatible.

I'm currently working on a fic exploring ruthless Shepherd's background. What do you guys see as his possible motivations? How do you think he would react to Cerberus and Miranda's way of doing things?

Depends what the other half of the backstory is I guess. Jack Shepard is Earthborn/Ruthless and my stance for him in ME2 was that, sure Cerberus had done some bad things in the past but they were seemingly the only ones taking the Reaper threat seriously.

As for Miranda's dad, yes he was deeply pro-human when helping Cerberus, but he severed ties with them when Miranda left and joined them. I never stated that he would have told Miranda that he was the Shadow Broker, for all she knew he was just training her to be dedicated to her job, no social connections, just business like. That to me is how the Shadow Broker would operate. Everything is purely just business to him. Identity is kept hidden to ensure he isn't personally targetted, no one truly knows who he is, he spreads rumours around so he is hidden deep in the middle of layer upon layer of intrigue and deception but just like his predecessor he is going to die at some point and needs someone to keep the torch burning. So what better than to create the perfect replacement.

[Breakdown Boy]

A pure renegade Shepard would freak out Miranda. She isn't an all costs type of person, sure she crosses some lines but she would not like a full renegade shep.

[fongiel24]

That's something to think about...

Put in the same situations as Shepherd in ME1, what would Miranda do?

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...
Put in the same situations as Shepherd in ME1, what would Miranda do?

The main plot decisions:
Miranda can be ruthless, but not arbitrarily callous. That would have most likely resulted in these decisions:
(1) Citadel - Expose Saren: she would have killed Fist.
(2) Feros: she would've tried to save the colonists (to not even try is arbitrarily callous), but accepted a few deaths as collateral damage.
(3) Feros: she would not have killed Shiala, if only in return for giving her important information.
(4) Feros: she would have shot Yeong.
(5) Noveria: she would have blackmailed Lorik to testify against
Anoleis.
(6) Noveria: the Rachni queen. Hmm. Difficult. I can see her making both decisions. Genocide might be a bit much for her, and curiosity about this unusual species might make her save the Rachni queen. On the other side, better be safe than sorry and kill her.
(7) Virmire: she would have tried to convince Wrex, but wouldn't have been bothered all that much about not being successful with it and having to kill him.
(8) Virmire: she would have left Kaidan, him being the technical specialist who could make sure the bomb went off.
(9) Citadel: she would have let the Council die (a decision of military
expediency).

Side quest decisions:
(1) X57: She would have killed Balak. accepting the deaths of the hostages. She would also have killed Charn.
(2) Citadel: Scan the Keepers: she would have helped Chorban with the Keepers, but not for money, but a copy of the data.
(3) Citadel: Homecoming: she would have intimidated Bhatia into leaving Nirali's corpse in the hands of the Alliance scientists. 
(4) Citadel: Presidium prophet: she would have intimidated the Prophet into leaving - or not bothered with him at all.
(5) Citadel: Schells the gambler: she would have helped him for curiosity's sake - and she'd have copied his device.
(6) Citadel: The Fan: she would have coldly rejected Verner in the first meeting.
(7) UNC: Hostile takeover: she would have helped Helena Blake and let her go without trying to persuade her to disband her group - maybe for a future favor.
(8) UNC: Major Kyle: she would have either intimidated him into surrendering or killed him and his followers.
(9) UNC: Exogeni Facility: she would have let herself be bribed by Dr.Ross - and documented everything as blackmail material.
(10) UNC: Lost Freighter: she would have turned off the life support.
(11) UNC: Hostage: she would have intimidated the biotics into surrendering because killing them would've been a waste.
(12) UNC: Dead Scientists: she would have let the scene play out with Toombs killing Wayne and then killing himself.
(13) UNC: Hades' Dogs: she would not have given the data to the Shadow Broker.

OK, that should be it. Disagreements? Comments?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 avril 2010 - 08:00 .

[Ieldra]

Strikor2115 wrote...

ok I fixed her face. any other suggestions?

Hmm. I like the pose and the clothing, but there's still something uncanny about her head and face. Can't really say what it is, try to move the head a millimetre or two in all directions to see if the result looks any better. Also, her mouth reminds me too much of the Joker's (the Batman Joker's). Perhaps make the smile a bit less open-mouthed, or lower the contrast of the lips a bit.

[Ieldra]

Regarding the theory that Miranda's father is the Shadow Broker: that theory has already been dismissed several times in this thread. It's not impossible, but not very plausible:

Assuming that the SB is an institution, not a person: who would Miranda's father have inherited the position from? And when? It can't have been from a human, because they haven't been part of Citadel civilization for long enough. Why would a non-human SB give the position to a human? How could a human even be in a position to take over? IMO there wasn't enough time for a human to get so deeply into a secret galaxy-wide organization that he could have inherited its leadership. And to have had this position when Miranda was a child or a teenager, as you suggest, Sir Ulrich, just ten years after first contact at the maximum, that would defy all probability.

So: no, the current SB and Miranda's father are most certainly not the same person. It's not impossible, no, but if it turns out that way in ME3 there needs to be a very good explanation for this extraordinary "personal union" or the writer needs to be slapped for bad storytelling.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 avril 2010 - 08:42 .

[trucoolbrees]

Ieldra2 wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...
Put in the same situations as Shepherd in ME1, what would Miranda do?

The main plot decisions:
Miranda can be ruthless, but not arbitrarily callous. That would have most likely resulted in these decisions:
(1) Citadel - Expose Saren: she would have killed Fist.
(2) Feros: she would've tried to save the colonists (to not even try is arbitrarily callous), but accepted a few deaths as collateral damage.
(3) Feros: she would not have killed Shiala, if only in return for giving her important information.
(4) Feros: she would have shot Yeong.
(5) Noveria: she would have blackmailed Lorik to testify against
Anoleis.
(6) Noveria: the Rachni queen. Hmm. Difficult. I can see her making both decisions. Genocide might be a bit much for her, and curiosity about this unusual species might make her save the Rachni queen. On the other side, better be safe than sorry and kill her.
(7) Virmire: she would have tried to convince Wrex, but wouldn't have been bothered all that much about not being successful with it and having to kill him.
(8) Virmire: she would have left Kaidan, him being the technical specialist who could make sure the bomb went off.
(9) Citadel: she would have let the Council die (a decision of military
expediency).

Side quest decisions:
(1) X57: She would have killed Balak. accepting the deaths of the hostages. She would also have killed Charn.
(2) Citadel: Scan the Keepers: she would have helped Chorban with the Keepers, but not for money, but a copy of the data.
(3) Citadel: Homecoming: she would have intimidated Bhatia into leaving Nirali's corpse in the hands of the Alliance scientists. 
(4) Citadel: Presidium prophet: she would have intimidated the Prophet into leaving - or not bothered with him at all.
(5) Citadel: Schells the gambler: she would have helped him for curiosity's sake - and she'd have copied his device.
(6) Citadel: The Fan: she would have coldly rejected Verner in the first meeting.
(7) UNC: Hostile takeover: she would have helped Helena Blake and let her go without trying to persuade her to disband her group - maybe for a future favor.
(8) UNC: Major Kyle: she would have either intimidated him into surrendering or killed him and his followers.
(9) UNC: Exogeni Facility: she would have let herself be bribed by Dr.Ross - and documented everything as blackmail material.
(10) UNC: Lost Freighter: she would have turned off the life support.
(11) UNC: Hostage: she would have intimidated the biotics into surrendering because killing them would've been a waste.
(12) UNC: Dead Scientists: she would have let the scene play out with Toombs killing Wayne and then killing himself.
(13) UNC: Hades' Dogs: she would not have given the data to the Shadow Broker.

OK, that should be it. Disagreements? Comments?

Pretty much agree with everything except the Rachni queen, I don't think she would have released her at all, rather taken her for future studies and experiments. Killing her seems like it would come off as wasting a potential resource to her.

[fongiel24]

I agree with most of your points, but the Noveria situation is a difficult one. Ashley is always strongly for killing the Queen because she's thinking of her sisters and what could happen to them if the Rachni started another war.

I can see Miranda making that same consideration but I doubt it's what her final decision would be based on. Killing or releasing the Rachni Queen is a decision that will have wide-reaching consequences.

Arguments for killing the Queen might be:
1) Ashley's reasoning also applies to Miranda. Miranda has a sister out there to worry about, not just herself.
2) The Rachni started a genocidal war centuries ago that almost toppled the Council races. The galaxy cannot afford such a threat even in a time of peace, much less while the Reapers are on the march.

Arguments for releasing the Queen might be:
1) Miranda is a scientist at heart and simply killing off a sapient species would be unthinkable scientifically.
2) Miranda is a moral person at heart and committing genocide is morally reprehensible.
3) The Reapers are coming and the galaxy will need as many possible allies to fend them off as possible. Despite their violent past (or perhaps because of it), the Rachni cannot be written off as potential allies, no matter how strange or physically repulsive they may be.

One thing you missed, Ieldra was how Miranda would counsel Garrus. I think Miranda would probably have told Garrus to kill Dr. Saleon if it wasn't possible to arrest him. She would likely also counsel him to take the more renegade path of "getting the job done" rather than the more paragon advice of "the rules exist for a reason and they should be followed no matter what".

[Ieldra]

@trucoolbrees:
I think in this case, empathy might have overruled expediency. Miranda might view the Rachni queen's situation as a more extreme version of her own - alone in a universe at best indifferent to her and what she represents. I can see the reasoning for keeping her for studies, but I think she'd have freed her. As for killing, I was limiting the choices to what the game lets us do...I agree she probably wouldn't do it if the option for keeping her alive and in captivity for the time being existed.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 avril 2010 - 09:40 .