43796 réponses à ce sujet

[fongiel24]

kraidy1117 wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

EDI was never intended to be unshackled. If she was, TIM could have just installed her unshackled. Why does he have to create some elaborate ruse to find a stooge (Joker) to unshackle her? The Normandy SR-2 is his ship and the crew are his employees. What's anybody going to do to stop him from installing an unshackled AI? Tell the Council? He's already considered a terrorist by everyone and is therefore accountable to no one.

Sure some of his financial backers may be unhappy with the decision, but to do anything about it they'd have to know he did it. Miranda makes it clear that Cerberus' financial backers pretty much just give TIM their money and trust him to make the right decisions.

Then why was she given all these abilites once she was unshackled? No one trust AIs, even Joker was not happy with her being unshackled and miri was pissed at her being unshackled.

Where does it say EDI gains additional abilities after being unshackled? EDI just gains awareness of her abilities and the freedom to tell Shepherd about them after being unshackled. When you first meet her and ask about the blocks, she states certain programs have been locked until certain conditions have been met.

Take EDI's supposed Reaper-fighting abilities. Under normal circumstances, she may not be able to use them and in fact may not even be aware of them. In the event she encounters a Reaper, it may fulfill a condition that unlocks that specific program.

TIM giving EDI abilities that she can only use while fully unshackled makes no sense. Why wouldn't these abilities be able to be used while shackled? He just doesn't want her accessing certain programs unless the necessary conditions are met.

[kraidy1117]

fongiel24 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

EDI was never intended to be unshackled. If she was, TIM could have just installed her unshackled. Why does he have to create some elaborate ruse to find a stooge (Joker) to unshackle her? The Normandy SR-2 is his ship and the crew are his employees. What's anybody going to do to stop him from installing an unshackled AI? Tell the Council? He's already considered a terrorist by everyone and is therefore accountable to no one.

Sure some of his financial backers may be unhappy with the decision, but to do anything about it they'd have to know he did it. Miranda makes it clear that Cerberus' financial backers pretty much just give TIM their money and trust him to make the right decisions.

Then why was she given all these abilites once she was unshackled? No one trust AIs, even Joker was not happy with her being unshackled and miri was pissed at her being unshackled.

Where does it say EDI gains additional abilities after being unshackled? EDI just gains awareness of her abilities and the freedom to tell Shepherd about them after being unshackled. When you first meet her and ask about the blocks, she states certain programs have been locked until certain conditions have been met.

Take EDI's supposed Reaper-fighting abilities. Under normal circumstances, she may not be able to use them and in fact may not even be aware of them. In the event she encounters a Reaper, it may fulfill a condition that unlocks that specific program.

TIM giving EDI abilities that she can only use while fully unshackled makes no sense. Why wouldn't these abilities be able to be used while shackled? He just doesn't want her accessing certain programs unless the necessary conditions are met.

Again why do you think TIm would do that. TIM is not to be trusted, him doing something like I mentioned is so in character it's not even funny. I don't see why people try to defend TIM <_<

[fongiel24]

kraidy1117 wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

"I rather die then live as a slave" Right from Shepard. Death is better then being a slave.

For that one individual in that specific situation, yes, death may be better than slavery. But what right does that one individual then have to make that same decision for every sapient being in the galaxy? I'm sure a lot of people would rather live as slaves to TIM than be liquified into Reapers. For a lot of people life always > death. Slaves can free themselves, the dead can't resurrect themselves.

What happens if I choose you to be liquified to make a Reaper? You would be happy that I deicided to destory the base then

You are asking me if I'd rather TIM keep the base, defeat the Reapers, then possibly liquify me, or if I'd rather TIM not keep the base, not defeat the Reapers, then the Reapers definitely liquifying me? Given a choice between possibly being liquified and definitely liquified, it seems the answer would be simple, yes? If you are saying I would definitely be liquified by TIM, well... I was definitely going to be liquified by the Reapers anyways so I am choosing between being liquified by TIM or liquified by the Reapers. What difference does it make?

[kraidy1117]

fongiel24 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

"I rather die then live as a slave" Right from Shepard. Death is better then being a slave.

For that one individual in that specific situation, yes, death may be better than slavery. But what right does that one individual then have to make that same decision for every sapient being in the galaxy? I'm sure a lot of people would rather live as slaves to TIM than be liquified into Reapers. For a lot of people life always > death. Slaves can free themselves, the dead can't resurrect themselves.

What happens if I choose you to be liquified to make a Reaper? You would be happy that I deicided to destory the base then

You are asking me if I'd rather TIM keep the base, defeat the Reapers, then possibly liquify me, or if I'd rather TIM not keep the base, not defeat the Reapers, then the Reapers definitely liquifying me? Given a choice between possibly being liquified and definitely liquified, it seems the answer would be simple, yes? If you are saying I would definitely be liquified by TIM, well... I was definitely going to be liquified by the Reapers anyways so I am choosing between being liquified by TIM or liquified by the Reapers. What difference does it make?

What happens if you get liquided and it does not matter, everyone still dies anyways? You just sacerficed your self for no reason.

[Ieldra]

kraidy1117 wrote...
Again why do you think TIm would do that. TIM is not to be trusted, him doing something like I mentioned is so in character it's not even funny. I don't see why people try to defend TIM <_<

We're not defending TIM. But: he has no reason to do such a thing. So why should he? He may be a diehard human supremacist, but he's not stupid. Only cheesy villains create complicated conspiracies for no reason at all.

[fongiel24]

kraidy1117 wrote...

What happens if you get liquided and it does not matter, everyone still dies anyways? You just sacerficed your self for no reason.

Let's start from the beginning. Who am I being liquified by? The Reapers? Or TIM? And when I talk about "I", am I talking about "myself" as in me the hypothetical person in the ME universe or "we", the entire sapient population of the galaxy?

[Ieldra]

vallix wrote...
And I understand your point, there's no reason to keep giving it to me in different forms. I was just seeing if you'd ever accept that destroying the base also had purpose but apparently that won't be happening(which is fine).

I also have Shepards who destroyed the base for the sake of roleplaying. I like to see how it turns out in ME3. The argument I use to convince myself is a combination of "I don't trust TIM" and "risk of indoctrination": do we really want to risk an indoctrinated TIM? But even that is a stretch in the face of what the Reapers represent. 

That Miranda seems to doubt the decision to keep the base if you do, btw, also doesn't make any sense. Seems almost out-ouf-character for her.  

[vallix]

Ieldra2 wrote...

vallix wrote...
And I understand your point, there's no reason to keep giving it to me in different forms. I was just seeing if you'd ever accept that destroying the base also had purpose but apparently that won't be happening(which is fine).

I also have Shepards who destroyed the base for the sake of roleplaying. I like to see how it turns out in ME3. The argument I use to convince myself is a combination of "I don't trust TIM" and "risk of indoctrination": do we really want to risk an indoctrinated TIM? But even that is a stretch in the face of what the Reapers represent. 

That Miranda seems to doubt the decision to keep the base if you do, btw, also doesn't make any sense. Seems almost out-ouf-character for her.  

Seriously? I thought she'd be the first to sign up on the "Keep the base for studies" list. That's odd. I'm actually still on my female playthrough and haven't got to the ending game point.

Modifié par vallix, 01 mai 2010 - 09:27 .

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

That Miranda seems to doubt the decision to keep the base if you do, btw, also doesn't make any sense. Seems almost out-ouf-character for her.  

This bothered me to no end. I love that Miranda is willing to defy Cerberus and quit (hopefully to be with Shepherd) which is dialogue we don't get if we choose to save the base, but as a person who I think is generally driven by reason rather than emotion, I seriously wondered if she'd smacked her head during the fight.

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

That Miranda seems to doubt the decision to keep the base if you do, btw, also doesn't make any sense. Seems almost out-ouf-character for her.  

This bothered me to no end. I love that Miranda is willing to defy Cerberus and quit (hopefully to be with Shepherd) which is dialogue we don't get if we choose to save the base, but as a person who I think is generally driven by reason rather than emotion, I seriously wondered if she'd smacked her head during the fight.

Exactly.

@vallix:
If you keep the base and talk to Miranda later, she is quite unsure about that decision and seems not at all interested in acquiring the knowledge it represents. I don't recall if she also says something in teh dialogue at the end of the fight - I might have seen something once (I'd really like to explore the options there some more, but you can't repeat that part without replaying the final battle).

Modifié par Ieldra2, 01 mai 2010 - 09:37 .

[Ieldra]

Here's another question:



I just skimmed the last pages of the Ashley thread, and there seemed to be a number of people there who didn't like Miranda because she works for Cerberus. While I can understand that to some degree, are there any others who found it exciting that we could have a romance with someone who might just turn out to be an enemy later?



For me, that we couldn't be completely sure of her added to the romance. It's like, if she turned out to be the person she presents herself as, then what we have may grow into love and that'd be the preferrable outcome, but if she turned out traitor, then it's been pleasant while it lasted, no hard feelings but I have to kill you or something. Very exciting...

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Here's another question:

I just skimmed the last pages of the Ashley thread, and there seemed to be a number of people there who didn't like Miranda because she works for Cerberus. While I can understand that to some degree, are there any others who found it exciting that we could have a romance with someone who might just turn out to be an enemy later?

For me, that we couldn't be completely sure of her added to the romance. It's like, if she turned out to be the person she presents herself as, then what we have may grow into love and that'd be the preferrable outcome, but if she turned out traitor, then it's been pleasant while it lasted, no hard feelings but I have to kill you or something. Very exciting...

If I were in the Ashley thread, I would be flamed for this but...

I think Miranda being Cerberus not only makes her romance more interesting but also more meaningful. Shepherd and Ashley are on the same side, working towards the same goals. Not to dismiss the influence of personality conflicts, but they are already starting off in a cooperative relationship.

Shepherd and Miranda start off on opposite "teams". While Shepherd and Cerberus may be working together, this is a relationship of necessity. If it wasn't for the Reapers, Shepherd would be actively hunting people like Miranda. For Miranda and Shepherd to become close requires them to bridge that gap first.

If Miranda betrays him later and ultimately chooses her loyalty to Cerberus over her love for Shepherd, it becomes a classic tragic love story (which I'm a sucker for). If Miranda is faithful to Shepherd, that shows how much she is willing to sacrifice for him. Remember, Miranda is billed as the loyalist. Her devotion to Cerberus is so strong it has become a part of her identity. Choosing Shepherd over Cerberus is a lifechanging decision for her.

What is Ashley giving up for Shepherd?

[Ieldra]

Hmm. Quiet here...

[jtav]

I expected Miranda being a Cerberus officer to play a much larger role in her romance. I certainly didn't trust her and fully expected her to betray me. My Sheps and I despise Cerberus with the burning heat of a thousand suns, so I was planning to get away from them as soon as I could. Miranda would turn on me as soon as I went against Cerberus interests. I also expected the opportunity to turn her to my side if my persuasive abilities were high enough. It added a certain edge of "This is too good to be true. It won't last. It can't last." I went into the romance expecting my heart to be broken. I still kind of wish it had played out that way.



I'm actually a little disappointed that you couldn't be more antagonistic to Miranda. My FemShep is trying to metaphorically grind her face into the dirt, but the game doesn't let you say anything genuinely nasty to her.



Oh, Ieldra, Biotic Charge is the Vanguard class ability.

[Breakdown Boy]

My Shep will kick the Reapers asses without their tech or Cerberus. Being Paragon Shep is doing things the right way, because of this I have more allies and have kept the soul of humanity intact (blew station to kingdom come)!

Modifié par Breakdown Boy, 01 mai 2010 - 02:17 .

[Ieldra]

Breakdown Boy wrote...
My Shep will kick the Reapers asses without their tech or Cerberus. Being Paragon Shep is doing things the right way, because of this I have more allies and have kept the soul of humanity intact (blew station to kingdom come)!

I'll take more allies. I'll take not trusting TIM one bit.
But what does the base have to do with this mysterious "soul of humanity". And what's that in the first place? Why the hell is destroying the base "the right thing"?

 

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I expected Miranda being a Cerberus officer to play a much larger role in her romance. I certainly didn't trust her and fully expected her to betray me. My Sheps and I despise Cerberus with the burning heat of a thousand suns, so I was planning to get away from them as soon as I could. Miranda would turn on me as soon as I went against Cerberus interests. I also expected the opportunity to turn her to my side if my persuasive abilities were high enough. It added a certain edge of "This is too good to be true. It won't last. It can't last." I went into the romance expecting my heart to be broken. I still kind of wish it had played out that way.

I'm of two minds about this. A tragic ending would have made a good story, but only from a distance. Being within it would be painful. But more conflict, and more open questions about Miranda's loyalty, within the romance, without a necessarily bad ending, that would have been great.

Oh, Ieldra, Biotic Charge is the Vanguard class ability.

Ah, thanks. I never play Vanguards, so I wouldn't know. Getting close was never my type of fighting, I'm more the Infiltrator type.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 01 mai 2010 - 02:30 .

[jtav]

I have something a craving for that kind of emotional pain, as long as it turns out well. And sometimes if it doesn't, if the tragic end is dramatically appropriate. I will be annoyed if Thane gets a miracle cure. But things like Miranda not talking to Oriana simply make me me miserable, and I don't like that.

And I did say I wanted to be able to persuade her back to my side. Not a guarenteed bad ending. But the possibility of failure and unhappiness majes the happy ending sweeter.

Modifié par jtav, 01 mai 2010 - 02:43 .

[Caihn]

Hi!
It's very quiet here ..

I didn't know what to do today, so I made a new video.
Hope you'll like it.

Modifié par Yannkee, 01 mai 2010 - 04:18 .

[StefanBW]

I'm not a big Miranda fan, but that was a cool video. Nice work.

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...

I didn't know what to do today, so I made a new video. Hope you'll like it.

That's a very good video. Nice music, nice composition, good mix of action and romance and a few dialogue scenes, and all the important scenes were in it. It deserves a place in the OP. Is DarthReavus around to put it in, or has he left for good?

BTW, that was my favorite squad: Shepard, Miranda and Kasumi

[Ieldra]

stefanbw wrote...
I'm not a big Miranda fan...

Can we do anything to change this lamentable state of mind?

[Caihn]

stefanbw wrote...

I'm not a big Miranda fan, but that was a cool video. Nice work.

Thanks.
Don't worry, nobody's perfect

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

I didn't know what to do today, so I made a new video. Hope you'll like it.

That's a very good video. Nice music, nice composition, good mix of action and romance and a few dialogue scenes, and all the important scenes were in it. It deserves a place in the OP. Is DarthReavus around to put it in, or has he left for good?

BTW, that was my favorite squad: Shepard, Miranda and Kasumi

Thank you.

I've just finished a play throw in insanity with my Shep infiltrator. Miranda and Kasumi were most of the time in my squad.
I can't imagine pick someone else now, maybe Garrus to replace Kasumi.

Modifié par Yannkee, 01 mai 2010 - 05:42 .

[MrNose]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Breakdown Boy wrote...
My Shep will kick the Reapers asses without their tech or Cerberus. Being Paragon Shep is doing things the right way, because of this I have more allies and have kept the soul of humanity intact (blew station to kingdom come)!

I'll take more allies. I'll take not trusting TIM one bit.
But what does the base have to do with this mysterious "soul of humanity". And what's that in the first place? Why the hell is destroying the base "the right thing"?

Because a radiation pulse would only affect the organic parts of the reaper ship, making it an extremely dangerous and unknown factor.  Honestly we don't even know if the organic parts of the collector ship would be totally destroyed, since we only hear it from TIM. 

The harvesting technology is horrible, so from a pure ethics standpoint taking it is an unethical action.

There's no guarantee that the collector ship is at all useful, particularly with its tech wrapped up in the hands of a small subversive organization.   

[epoch_]

Yannkee wrote...

Hi!
It's very quiet here ..

I didn't know what to do today, so I made a new video.
Hope you'll like it.

That was absolutely epic.