43796 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Honestly, it's nice to focus on something besides her Cerberus ties for once and watch three well-defined personalities play off each other. I hate writing Shep. The only downside is that I don't have much medical knowledge myself, so writing the actual coming up with a theory and why it doesn't work will be difficult.

[fongiel24]

Writing about technical points is always tricky, particularly if you aren't familiar with the field. It's easy to get bogged down but one thing I find helps is to remember most readers don't have a great deal of familiarity with technical subjects either. As long as something sounds plausible, it's usually enough.

Keprol's syndrome is supposed to attack the lungs. From Thane's description, it sounds similar to emphysema. Maybe Miranda draws that same conclusion and tries to find a cure based on her knowledge of human physiology, only to find that Drell physiology is just barely different enough that her cure is either ineffective or actually does more harm. Something like that could build up a bit of hope for the reader, then snatch it away (I know, I'm sadistic at times ). It would be ironic and particularly tragic if Miranda's hubris ends up accelerating Thane's condition, rather than curing it.

Modifié par fongiel24, 02 mai 2010 - 12:51 .

[Nightwriter]

I've noticed that Miranda, more than any other character really, seems to inspire the comment in people, "I really expected to hate Miranda, but I was really suprrised! I ended up liking her!"

I wonder why this is? I myself went in expecting to really dislike her... I think it has a lot to do with Bioware's marketing of her character pre-release. Who decides these things - how to represent the characters in the ads? 

[jtav]

I'll keep those points in mind. *bookmarks emphysema page on Wikipedia* The whole thing takes place during the second half of the game, so I have a time frame of a few weeks to work with. Probably looking at Mordin and Miranda developing something that improves lung function but has debilitating side effects. At least the ending is positive. Miranda decides her emotions are already engaged, so she might as well be happy with him for as long as she can and let herself have a romance. And she finally contacts Oriana.

[Collider]

Nightwriter wrote...

I've noticed that Miranda, more than any other character really, seems to inspire the comment in people, "I really expected to hate Miranda, but I was really suprrised! I ended up liking her!"

I wonder why this is? I myself went in expecting to really dislike her... I think it has a lot to do with Bioware's marketing of her character pre-release. Who decides these things - how to represent the characters in the ads? 

It is the marketing. They marketed her out to cold and high maintenance. There was no sliver of the empathy that she displayed in her loyalty mission. Instead, we appeared to see her acting against Shepard's wish by attacking that Asari. And even though she already part of the Cerberus, she said that Shepard would have to work hard to earn her loyalty. Top that off with the moniker "Loyalist" which implies loyalty to Cerberus, which by all accounts is a pretty nasty organization.

I've also seen many people say the same thing about Jack, they expected something shallower or something they would hate but instead got something different. After all, the trailers cannot give the whole picture.

Modifié par Collider, 02 mai 2010 - 02:22 .

[Nightwriter]

Collider wrote...

It is the marketing. They marketed her out to cold and high maintenance. There was no sliver of the empathy that she displayed in her loyalty mission. Instead, we appeared to see her acting against Shepard's wish by attacking that Asari. And even though she already part of the Cerberus, she said that Shepard would have to work hard to earn her loyalty. Top that off with the moniker "Loyalist" which implies loyalty to Cerberus, which by all accounts is a pretty nasty organization.

I've also seen many people say the same thing about Jack, they expected something shallower or something they would hate but instead got something different. After all, the trailers cannot give the whole picture.

No, but you have to ask whether they intended for us to dislike Miranda. This was achieved so thoroughly and so spectacularly with their ad campaign that it makes me wonder how it couldn't have been on purpose - and if so, why?

That scene where Shepard stops her from shooting the asari was really misrepresented imo, it was her loyalty mission and she was well within her rights to shoot her.

[Collider]

Nightwriter wrote...
No, but you have to ask whether they intended for us to dislike Miranda. This was achieved so thoroughly and so spectacularly with their ad campaign that it makes me wonder how it couldn't have been on purpose - and if so, why?

I don't think they wanted us to dislike Miranda. I think they wanted to stress her coldness. They're not seeking to make people dislike Miranda when they have her sex scene advertised. That's specifically so they will want Miranda.

That scene where Shepard stops her from shooting the asari was really misrepresented imo, it was her loyalty mission and she was well within her rights to shoot her.

You don't actually stop her from killing the asari. That scene that was shown was Shepard stopping her from killing Nikhet coupled with the Asari thing. Misrepresentation or something along those lines can sometimes to be good. It's not good to be spoiled after all, being misled or having ambiguity can allow for players to be more surprised.

[drunken pyromaniac]

*peeks in*
Well, I for one took really poorly to the Loyalist video. I thought it seemed ridiculous that the savior of the Citadel would have to earn anyone's trust. Another thing I'm ashamed to admit is that my less than positive feelings towards her may be partially rooted in my pride. She isn't slow to contradict Shepard if she feels she needs to. Anyway, I'm doing a playthrough where I'm giving her a chance. I'll see how I feel about her at the end of this.

Modifié par drunken pyromaniac, 02 mai 2010 - 02:44 .

[Nightwriter]

Collider wrote...

I don't think they wanted us to dislike Miranda. I think they wanted to stress her coldness. They're not seeking to make people dislike Miranda when they have her sex scene advertised. That's specifically so they will want Miranda.

Sexually, sure, but on a basic character level it makes us hate her. What we now know about Miranda from vids is:

a) she's a b*tch
she's sex fanservice

Yeah, that really makes us appreciate that character. Since Miranda turned out to be a great person in my books and a character I like I'm kinda left going wtf??

"Shepard's going to have to work hard if he wants to earn my trust"? Not really, not any harder than the others.

Collider wrote...

You don't actually stop her from killing the asari. That scene that was shown was Shepard stopping her from killing Nikhet coupled with the Asari thing. Misrepresentation or something along those lines can sometimes to be good. It's not good to be spoiled after all, being misled or having ambiguity can allow for players to be more surprised.

Sure, just like the Tali vid showed her getting exiled when she didn't have to get exiled.

What I'm saying is the vid, again, makes an effort to portray Miranda to us as a cold character. A cold, dislikable character.

[Collider]

Nightwriter wrote...
Sexually, sure, but on a basic character level it makes us hate her. What we now know about Miranda from vids is:

a) she's a b*tch
she's sex fanservice

Or, you can draw that she's intelligent, methodical, and isn't one easily trust people. None of those things are inherently bad. Part of the thing in advertising is that you want to exaggerate a few things, and underplay a few things. In this case, they emphasized and exaggerated her coldness, because that is part of the draw of her character. In the Jack video, they made her seem crazy and irrationally violent. She is the latter, but when she's on the Normandy she's actually quite mild.

Yeah, that really makes us appreciate that character. Since Miranda turned out to be a great person in my books and a character I like I'm kinda left going wtf??

Giving the full picture is not the way to go. They don't want to spoil everything. That includes her more sensitive side with her sister.

Sure, just like the Tali vid showed her getting exiled when she didn't have to get exiled.

Exactly.

What I'm saying is the vid, again, makes an effort to portray Miranda to us as a cold character. A cold, dislikable character.

I don't think they tried to make her dislikable. They tried to emphasis her coldness and high requirements for loyalty (which in fact was the same as everyone else, unless you count the Jack v. Miranda fight). Whether you find that intriguing or annoying is up to you. Some people clearly liked the trailer, some people didn't.

[Nightwriter]

Collider wrote...

Or, you can draw that she's intelligent, methodical, and isn't one easily trust people. None of those things are inherently bad. Part of the thing in advertising is that you want to exaggerate a few things, and underplay a few things. In this case, they emphasized and exaggerated her coldness, because that is part of the draw of her character. In the Jack video, they made her seem crazy and irrationally violent. She is the latter, but when she's on the Normandy she's actually quite mild.

Not many of us, from the sound of things, drew that she was intelligent, methodical, and not one to trust easily, Collider. That's a nice and intelligent way of looking at it, but how many of us did look at it that way? 

From the sounds of things most of us just watched her videos and the FFTL trailer and took an instant dislike to her. Humans are impressionable creatures, easily influenced by what little impressions we're given. Marketing departments have always known this. They had to have known it this time, as well.

Collider wrote...

Giving the full picture is not the way to go. They don't want to spoil everything. That includes her more sensitive side with her sister.

Of course not. No question. But they proved they can make a character trailer that doesn't reveal everything and is still able to make that character likable. They did it with Thane. Everyone was just intrigued.

Collider wrote...

I don't think they tried to make her dislikable. They tried to emphasis her coldness and high requirements for loyalty (which in fact was the same as everyone else, unless you count the Jack v. Miranda fight). Whether you find that intriguing or annoying is up to you. Some people clearly liked the trailer, some people didn't.

I don't know anyone who liked the trailer and didn't react negatively to it (talking about the Loyalist vid). This is just my personal experience though - my observation was that it got a pretty unanimous negative reaction.

[Collider]

Not many of us, from the sound of things, drew that she was intelligent, methodical, and not one to trust easily, Collider. That's a nice and intelligent way of looking at it, but how many of us did look at it that way?

From the sounds of things most of us just watched her videos and the FFTL trailer and took an instant dislike to her. Humans are impressionable creatures, easily influenced by what little impressions we're given. Marketing departments have always known this. They had to have known it this time, as well.

It's fallacious to believe that if people have a negative reaction towards something that was advertised, there was intent of for what was advertised to be received negatively. Take the Jacob romance for example, they clearly did not mean for it to be taken badly. But it was.

I watched the trailer I did not get "oh I'm going to hate this person." The only thing I thought that may have been negative was that I may want to watch what this person does. The entire game was already being advertised as partly getting your squad mates loyal, so it's not as if I actually thought that Miranda would require extra stuff to be loyal. It's just advertising and dramatization baloney.

A lot of people like the femme fatal, deadly woman kind of thing. You see that in movies all the time - the woman is deadly, capable, and sexy in the trailers. You also get to see this femme fatal getting it on with the male protagonist. If they wanted us to dislike Miranda, they wouldn't be advertising her sex scene all over the place.

Of course not. No question. But they proved they can make a character trailer that doesn't reveal everything and is still able to make that character likable. They did it with Thane. Everyone was just intrigued.

I actually didn't like Thane's trailer much at all. He didn't seem interesting and his "I don't feel anything yet I'm still killing people" thing I didn't like. Of course he's pretty cool in game though.

I don't know anyone who liked the trailer and didn't react negatively to it (talking about the Loyalist vid). This is just my personal experience though - my observation was that it got a pretty unanimous negative reaction.

I saw plenty of people getting stoked for Miranda on the old forums and my friends off the net. She's got the femme fatal appeal and she's not bad on the eyes. That was basically their reasoning. If you remember, there was a part of the trailer where she is basically flirting with male Shepard. That's not something they're going to add if they want people to dislike her.

Modifié par Collider, 02 mai 2010 - 03:13 .

[Nightwriter]

I'm not saying they intended for us to dislike her at all. I am saying I think they really misrepresented her character, and since this misrepresentation led to so many bad impressions - so much so that so many people are always surprised to find they like her - I question it.

There's nothing reasonable or rational about people's reactions to media and marketing campaigns. It's all emotional, and it's all first blush. We form opinions and impressions without even thinking, and they're emphatic.

So I'm thinking, why? How do they decide how to portray a character in the ads? What makes them shoot for the reactions they shoot for? What do they intend?

Oh, btw - when was she flirting with male Shepard in any of the vids?

[Collider]

Oh, btw - when was she flirting with male Shepard in any of the vids?

"I didn't think you were up to the task, but apparently I was wrong."

I'm not saying they intended for us to dislike her at all. I am saying I think they really misrepresented her character, and since this misrepresentation led to so many bad impressions - so much so that so many people are always surprised to find they like her - I question it

How exactly were they misrepresenting her? They weren't to my knowledge. They just weren't giving the full picture, which is the point.

Modifié par Collider, 02 mai 2010 - 03:28 .

[Nightwriter]

They misrepresented her because they portrayed her as a cold femme fatale sex object for male players. I think they thought cold and sexy would appeal more to men on that level, so they sold her on that. But Miranda the Character was a bit overlooked.

I'm only saying this because I like her character, and when I look back and see people got the wrong idea about her it seems unfortunate. I know they couldn't reveal the whole thing. Still, I'm just kinda like, "Hey! You gave me the wrong idea! Why'd you do that?"

Thing is, the Miranda in those vids is the Miranda of Lazarus Station and Freedom's Progress, but after that, she is just simply not that person. She changes. She's friendly, amicable... completely inconsistent with the vids.

[fongiel24]

Nightwriter wrote...

They misrepresented her because they portrayed her as a cold femme fatale sex object for male players. I think they thought cold and sexy would appeal more to men on that level, so they sold her on that. But Miranda the Character was a bit overlooked.

I'm only saying this because I like her character, and when I look back and see people got the wrong idea about her it seems unfortunate. I know they couldn't reveal the whole thing. Still, I'm just kinda like, "Hey! You gave me the wrong idea! Why'd you do that?"

Thing is, the Miranda in those vids is the Miranda of Lazarus Station and Freedom's Progress, but after that, she is just simply not that person. She changes. She's friendly, amicable... completely inconsistent with the vids.

To be fair, a trailer can't present too many spoilers and I think Bioware's intention was that Miranda open up slowly to you (whether they were successful in portraying this is another question). Miranda demanding that Shepherd earn her trust is not entirely unreasonable either.

Shepherd is a lead from the front type, a classic Hollywood war hero. Miranda's style is a lot more cerebral and subtle. For her, the idea of following someone who runs around guns blazing all the time probably would not be all that appealing.

Miranda's points about not tolerating incompetence also fits her as well. She has very high standards for everyone, including herself, and she's not afraid to voice that. I didn't have a problem with her in her trailer at all. I actually found it kind of refreshing.

The impression I got was that Shepherd would have to be at the absolute top of his game to even stand a chance with her, which just made her more intriguing.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Da Shadow Master wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

*peeks in*
Well, I for one took really poorly to the Loyalist video. I thought it seemed ridiculous that the savior of the Citadel would have to earn anyone's trust. Another thing I'm ashamed to admit is that my less than positive feelings towards her may be partially rooted in my pride. She isn't slow to contradict Shepard if she feels she needs to. Anyway, I'm doing a playthrough where I'm giving her a chance. I'll see how I feel about her at the end of this.

I don't trust you lol:?

I'm giving her a chance. What more do you want of me?

[Nightwriter]

fongiel24 wrote...

To be fair, a trailer can't present too many spoilers and I think Bioware's intention was that Miranda open up slowly to you (whether they were successful in portraying this is another question). Miranda demanding that Shepherd earn her trust is not entirely unreasonable either.

Shepherd is a lead from the front type, a classic Hollywood war hero. Miranda's style is a lot more cerebral and subtle. For her, the idea of following someone who runs around guns blazing all the time probably would not be all that appealing.

Miranda's points about not tolerating incompetence also fits her as well. She has very high standards for everyone, including herself, and she's not afraid to voice that. I didn't have a problem with her in her trailer at all. I actually found it kind of refreshing.

The impression I got was that Shepherd would have to be at the absolute top of his game to even stand a chance with her, which just made her more intriguing.

Fair points.

[kraidy1117]

how about Bioware not advertise ME3 this much like ME2. They spoiled too much leading to launch. I regret following the game and while the launch trailer wasepic, it spoiled WAY too much.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Da Shadow Master wrote...

I have a feeling it's gonna end ....in a bad way.I know you all too well.

Huh?

[Nightwriter]

Da Shadow Master wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Da Shadow Master wrote...

I have a feeling it's gonna end ....in a bad way.I know you all too well.

Huh?

You disappoint me lol.

What choo pickin' on Dyro for? He's tryin'!

[Collider]

So dryo, what are your thoughts on Miranda romance thus far?