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[Nightwriter]

Yeah, a blank slate is always boring, and that's kind of what Bioware gives you with Shepard. A blank slate to write whatever you want on.

[fongiel24]

Shepherd as a character can very easily fall into Mary Sue/Marty Stu territory.

Even before the events of ME1 s/he is either a war hero (self explanatory), a total badass in the ruthless background, or the only survivor of an event so traumatic that it left fifty marines dead. That alone is dangerous territory to tread on as a writer.

What follows just makes it worse. Just a few examples from ME1...
1. Fought through a human colony overrun with geth on Eden Prime with only two allies when at least two brigades of Alliance marines were almost wiped out.
2. Incredibly unique (or lucky) brain wiring that allows him/her to survive a Prothean beacon when most other people would have been driven insane.
3. On Noveria, singlehandedly fought through a research facility overrun with ancient insectoid aliens that almost destroyed galactic civilization. Took on an asari Matriarch, considered to be one of the most powerful biotics in the galaxy, AND an entire asari commando unit.
4. On Feros, once again drove off the geth and managed to kill a malevolent plant monster that had survived for tens of thousands of years before encountering Shepherd.
5. Took on a Saren twice and won. Saren was considered to be one of the greatest Spectres in the galaxy and was enhanced with Reaper tech.

At the beginning of ME2, Shepherd just gets resurrected from the dead because s/he is supposedly the only hope the galaxy has against the Reapers. No biggie.

To actually write Shepherd and make him/her interesting is difficult because the established canon background of the character tries so hard to turn Shepherd into a larger-than-life superhero. It's worse than writing Superman in some ways because at least Superman had kryptonite. To write Shepherd, you have to get into his/her head and manufacture weaknesses and vulnerabilities.

[jtav]

fongiel, that's it exactly. To create a compelling character, I have to put in almost as work as I would creating an entirely new character, and I have to deal with readers who complain that I'm writing him OOC because he's different from how they see him. My Shep's a photographer with PTSD but lots of charm, not "the biggest badass in the galaxy."

Nightwriter: It has more to do with the fact that I think they'd get along while still having interesting conflicts and I get to play up the fact that both are intellectual. Also, Thane brings out my inner fangirl.

Vyn: Traitor? Glad you're interested, though.

[fongiel24]

With the MShep I'm currently writing, I actually play up the Marty Stu aspects on the surface because that's the image my Shepherd tries to portray to the outside world.
He hides his vulnerabilities and scars behind a shield of ruthlessness, callousness, and being very, very good at what he does. His charisma is an act but an act he's been using so long that most people don't recognize it for what it is: another facade he uses to keep them at arm's length. He pretends he doesn't need other people in his life and to others he appears to be the stereotypical lone wolf figure.
Underneath it all though, he's actually a completely broken man. He tries so hard to be the best because he has nothing else. While fighting the Reapers is a very important mission no one else can do, part of why he pursues that mission so hard is that he's afraid of what would happen if he didn't have a mission. If it hadn't been for Saren, he'd probably have ended up another tragic story of a burnt out soldier who drank himself to death.

And this is the point where Miranda enters the picture...

Modifié par fongiel24, 02 mai 2010 - 11:25 .

[jtav]

I like it.

[Nightwriter]

fongiel, when can we read your fanfic?

[fongiel24]

I've been working on it for a little over a week, since final exams finished. It roughly follows the plot of ME2 and I'm up to the point right after Freedom's Progress. I've already got a few chapters done, but my beta reader works a lot more slowly than I do .

[Nightwriter]

How soon can we see it? Sorry, I love good fanfic. I don't mean to prod at you, but...



*prod, prod*



Giz me da fanfic!

[fongiel24]

Nightwriter wrote...

How soon can we see it? Sorry, I love good fanfic. I don't mean to prod at you, but...

*prod, prod*

Giz me da fanfic!

To quote from a certain game developer's modus operandi... it will be done
when it will be done *shakes fist at Blizzard*

Seriously though, it's still a work in progress in its earliest stages. I'm really just setting the groundwork now. I'm not really sure it's good fanfiction, just a way for me to explore a few ideas I have about how ME2 really played out in my head.

I've got a short prologue up as a temporary placeholder for now here if you're interested:

http://www.fanfictio...13/1/Casualties

but I have a tendency to ramble and overwrite (my last attempt at writing fiction went on for over 100,000 words), hence the need for a beta reader.

[jtav]

Impatient, aren't we Nightwriter?

Well, Miranda (along with everyone else) are now dead. I can now return to my canon playthrough and sweep Miranda off her feet. At least the Thane romance was touching (translation: I was reduced to a giggling, sighing idiot)

[Valmy]

jtav wrote...

Impatient, aren't we Nightwriter?
Well, Miranda (along with everyone else) are now dead. I can now return to my canon playthrough and sweep Miranda off her feet. At least the Thane romance was touching (translation: I was reduced to a giggling, sighing idiot)

Ah yeah?  Love that tragic love.

I am glad you can go back and get Miri the love she deserves.  Man I cannot wait to get back to having time to play Mass Effect.

[Breakdown Boy]

This thread needs some pictures...

[Nightwriter]

Wow, I love that picture!

Quick - hide it before jtav finds it and does terrible terrible things to it! I can just hear it now...

"I swapped Shepard's head for Chris Farley's and I love it. What? Why does it always have to be Shepard/Miranda? Anyone will do... I think I'll do Carrot Top next... they could be happy together... or maybe Borat..."

... I kid, jtav, I kid! You know I love you.

[Breakdown Boy]

@Shadow: Thanks. How you doing?

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Almost done with my "kill 'em all" playthrough. Miranda comes off as extremely cold and ruthless, but she's also right: if I'd waited and done more loyalty missions, I'd survive. More to the point, I wouldn't be stuck doing the long walk with her and Tali and tearing my hair out. So maybe she isn't cold as much as practical.

Is this a game where your Shepard won't survive? As for Miranda being practical, that's what I always thought. Being cold is sometimes a result of being practical. And if you have ever played Planscape: Torment, it brings home to you how easily practicality can slide off into evil.

Unfortunately, I'm not at all done with my experimental Insanity run. Currently I'm stuck on Horizon. I thought the horde of armored Husks would ruin my day, but it's rather the two Scions. They always manage to catch me with their shockwaves while I'm running to the next cover.

[Breakdown Boy]

Da Shadow Master wrote...

Breakdown Boy wrote...

@Shadow: Thanks. How you doing?

I'm good....Just getting ready to continue my Mirmance before I go off to sleep lol.
Just completed her loyalty.

To be young and in love....what class are you playing with? I just finished the Collector ship mission and now doing Samara loyalty.

I wonder why some people say Miri is 'fan service' but I haven't heard anything like that about Samara?

[kraidy1117]

Breakdown Boy wrote...

Da Shadow Master wrote...

Breakdown Boy wrote...

@Shadow: Thanks. How you doing?

I'm good....Just getting ready to continue my Mirmance before I go off to sleep lol.
Just completed her loyalty.

To be young and in love....what class are you playing with? I just finished the Collector ship mission and now doing Samara loyalty.

I wonder why some people say Miri is 'fan service' but I haven't heard anything like that about Samara?

There just haters, Miri is one of the most complex characters Bioware has made.

[Ieldra]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
(1) I was drawn by her emotional detachment. I dislike how all too often being emotional is painted as some kind of virtue in a woman. Being the more careful type myself, I immediately connected with her.
(2) She's a woman with enough competence and confidence to stand up to you as Shepard. On the previous page, you said she insulted your pride. I feel the exact opposite: who wouldn't be flattered if a woman like Miranda showed interest? And as "Shepard the Hero" you should have enough confidence yourself to brush her more critical comments off with either a good counterargument (even if the game doesn't let you, do it in your mind), or an amused smile if appropriate.
(3) This confidence and competence also gives her an impressive presence. Forgive me for being poetic, but she'll never be only another's satellite, always a star in her own right.
(4) This makes me feel that she actually adds something to Shepard in the romance, that Miranda/Shepard as a whole is not only more than Shepard alone, but more than the sum of its parts. Is Tali/Shepard significantly more than Shepard alone? Is Jack/Shepard? I don't think so. 
(5) I appreciate her ruthlessness. A refreshing change from those fictional women who always push the hero to the less controversial, Paragon decisions.
(6) There's the physical, of course. She's beautiful.
(7) For the romance: she's human. It's a factor for me.

Fair enough, those traits don't really appeal to me...

Really? So you like female LI characters who...
...are more openly emotional
...are considerable less competent and confident than the protagonist
...are not much more than the hero's satellite?
...don't add much to the partnership.
...are a paragon of conventional morality.
...are not beautiful
...are not human.
And you don't think that would make an LI character somewhat....boring?

[Nightwriter]

Breakdown Boy wrote...

To be young and in love....what class are you playing with? I just finished the Collector ship mission and now doing Samara loyalty.

I wonder why some people say Miri is 'fan service' but I haven't heard anything like that about Samara?

Probably because she doesn't have a sex scene in an engine room where she unzips and all that, I suppose.

[kraidy1117]

Nightwriter wrote...

Breakdown Boy wrote...

To be young and in love....what class are you playing with? I just finished the Collector ship mission and now doing Samara loyalty.

I wonder why some people say Miri is 'fan service' but I haven't heard anything like that about Samara?

Probably because she doesn't have a sex scene in an engine room where she unzips and all that, I suppose.

Still she is a complex character. Alkot of work went into Miri.

[Nightwriter]

Ieldra2 wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
(1) I was drawn by her emotional detachment. I dislike how all too often being emotional is painted as some kind of virtue in a woman. Being the more careful type myself, I immediately connected with her.
(2) She's a woman with enough competence and confidence to stand up to you as Shepard. On the previous page, you said she insulted your pride. I feel the exact opposite: who wouldn't be flattered if a woman like Miranda showed interest? And as "Shepard the Hero" you should have enough confidence yourself to brush her more critical comments off with either a good counterargument (even if the game doesn't let you, do it in your mind), or an amused smile if appropriate.
(3) This confidence and competence also gives her an impressive presence. Forgive me for being poetic, but she'll never be only another's satellite, always a star in her own right.
(4) This makes me feel that she actually adds something to Shepard in the romance, that Miranda/Shepard as a whole is not only more than Shepard alone, but more than the sum of its parts. Is Tali/Shepard significantly more than Shepard alone? Is Jack/Shepard? I don't think so. 
(5) I appreciate her ruthlessness. A refreshing change from those fictional women who always push the hero to the less controversial, Paragon decisions.
(6) There's the physical, of course. She's beautiful.
(7) For the romance: she's human. It's a factor for me.

Fair enough, those traits don't really appeal to me...

Really? So you like female LI characters who...
...are more openly emotional
...are considerable less competent and confident than the protagonist
...are not much more than the hero's satellite?
...don't add much to the partnership.
...are a paragon of conventional morality.
...are not beautiful
...are not human.
And you don't think that would make an LI character somewhat....boring?

I totally agree, that just completely makes a boring LI for me.

Still, I can understand that different people are attracted to different things, and that they find different characteristics appealing than someone like me does. 

I really didn't find any of the ME1 LIs very appealing at all. They were all a bit boring to me.