43796 réponses à ce sujet

[fongiel24]

The loyalty missions in ME2 make a big difference in giving the LIs more life. I don't like how the loyalty missions are incorporated, but the missions themselves overall bring a lot to the character development

[kraidy1117]

Nightwriter wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
(1) I was drawn by her emotional detachment. I dislike how all too often being emotional is painted as some kind of virtue in a woman. Being the more careful type myself, I immediately connected with her.
(2) She's a woman with enough competence and confidence to stand up to you as Shepard. On the previous page, you said she insulted your pride. I feel the exact opposite: who wouldn't be flattered if a woman like Miranda showed interest? And as "Shepard the Hero" you should have enough confidence yourself to brush her more critical comments off with either a good counterargument (even if the game doesn't let you, do it in your mind), or an amused smile if appropriate.
(3) This confidence and competence also gives her an impressive presence. Forgive me for being poetic, but she'll never be only another's satellite, always a star in her own right.
(4) This makes me feel that she actually adds something to Shepard in the romance, that Miranda/Shepard as a whole is not only more than Shepard alone, but more than the sum of its parts. Is Tali/Shepard significantly more than Shepard alone? Is Jack/Shepard? I don't think so. 
(5) I appreciate her ruthlessness. A refreshing change from those fictional women who always push the hero to the less controversial, Paragon decisions.
(6) There's the physical, of course. She's beautiful.
(7) For the romance: she's human. It's a factor for me.

Fair enough, those traits don't really appeal to me...

Really? So you like female LI characters who...
...are more openly emotional
...are considerable less competent and confident than the protagonist
...are not much more than the hero's satellite?
...don't add much to the partnership.
...are a paragon of conventional morality.
...are not beautiful
...are not human.
And you don't think that would make an LI character somewhat....boring?

I totally agree, that just completely makes a boring LI for me.

Still, I can understand that different people are attracted to different things, and that they find different characteristics appealing than someone like me does. 

I really didn't find any of the ME1 LIs very appealing at all. They were all a bit boring to me.

Garrus, Miri and Jack FTW!

[kraidy1117]

fongiel24 wrote...

The loyalty missions in ME2 make a big difference in giving the LIs more life. I don't like how the loyalty missions are incorporated, but the missions themselves overall bring a lot to the character development

Like Miri's?

[Nightwriter]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Breakdown Boy wrote...

To be young and in love....what class are you playing with? I just finished the Collector ship mission and now doing Samara loyalty.

I wonder why some people say Miri is 'fan service' but I haven't heard anything like that about Samara?

Probably because she doesn't have a sex scene in an engine room where she unzips and all that, I suppose.

Still she is a complex character. Alkot of work went into Miri.

I know. I wish they would've focused more on her character and the nonsexual side of the romance, though.

I'm tired of hearing from other people that the whole romance was fanservice and there wasn't any real meaning in it.

[Breakdown Boy]

Nightwriter wrote...

Breakdown Boy wrote...

To be young and in love....what class are you playing with? I just finished the Collector ship mission and now doing Samara loyalty.

I wonder why some people say Miri is 'fan service' but I haven't heard anything like that about Samara?

Probably because she doesn't have a sex scene in an engine room where she unzips and all that, I suppose.

I think Samara is unzipped from the moment you see her? And in ME1 both Liara and Ash show more skin then Miri so what is your point exactly? Neverminf the fact that Miri is the only female LI that can undress without getting sick.

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...
With the MShep I'm currently writing, I actually play up the Marty Stu aspects on the surface because that's the image my Shepherd tries to portray to the outside world.
He hides his vulnerabilities and scars behind a shield of ruthlessness, callousness, and being very, very good at what he does. His charisma is an act but an act he's been using so long that most people don't recognize it for what it is: another facade he uses to keep them at arm's length. He pretends he doesn't need other people in his life and to others he appears to be the stereotypical lone wolf figure.
Underneath it all though, he's actually a completely broken man. He tries so hard to be the best because he has nothing else. While fighting the Reapers is a very important mission no one else can do, part of why he pursues that mission so hard is that he's afraid of what would happen if he didn't have a mission. If it hadn't been for Saren, he'd probably have ended up another tragic story of a burnt out soldier who drank himself to death.
And this is the point where Miranda enters the picture...

This sounds very interesting.

I've also thought about how my main maleShep is behind the mask he shows the world, for much the same reasons. It's a different approach, though: he starts out as nothing more but an exceptional Alliance commando soldier (not a Soldier, though), but his exploits make him increasingly lonely and detached from those he's set out to protect. Then he gets rebuilt and even more enhanced by Cerberus. When he meets Delan (the mechanic) on Horizon, he starts to question his mission. From the Reaper IFF mission onwards, what drives him is loyalty to his crew and squad rather than the cause of humanity, and somewhere in his mind the traitorous thought is lurking: what if Nazara was right? 
Miranda's role in this has yet to be determined.

[kraidy1117]

Nightwriter wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Breakdown Boy wrote...

To be young and in love....what class are you playing with? I just finished the Collector ship mission and now doing Samara loyalty.

I wonder why some people say Miri is 'fan service' but I haven't heard anything like that about Samara?

Probably because she doesn't have a sex scene in an engine room where she unzips and all that, I suppose.

Still she is a complex character. Alkot of work went into Miri.

I know. I wish they would've focused more on her character and the nonsexual side of the romance, though.

I'm tired of hearing from other people that the whole romance was fanservice and there wasn't any real meaning in it.

Well they did well leading up to the sex scene, it's just the sex scene was tho i do love the content in the scene, but it was how it was handled that bugs me. I loved when you say if it's not worth it, she is on the verge of tears and hugs you.

[Nightwriter]

Breakdown Boy wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Breakdown Boy wrote...

To be young and in love....what class are you playing with? I just finished the Collector ship mission and now doing Samara loyalty.

I wonder why some people say Miri is 'fan service' but I haven't heard anything like that about Samara?

Probably because she doesn't have a sex scene in an engine room where she unzips and all that, I suppose.

I think Samara is unzipped from the moment you see her? And in ME1 both Liara and Ash show more skin then Miri so what is your point exactly? Neverminf the fact that Miri is the only female LI that can undress without getting sick.

... But, I have no point.

I'm only saying Miranda's sex scene is the most sexual compared to all the other ME2 romance scenes and that her romance is also widely hailed as being the most sex-based.

I wasn't saying I agreed with it. I'm referring to other people's perceptions of "fanservice".

[kraidy1117]

Nightwriter wrote...

Breakdown Boy wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Breakdown Boy wrote...

To be young and in love....what class are you playing with? I just finished the Collector ship mission and now doing Samara loyalty.

I wonder why some people say Miri is 'fan service' but I haven't heard anything like that about Samara?

Probably because she doesn't have a sex scene in an engine room where she unzips and all that, I suppose.

I think Samara is unzipped from the moment you see her? And in ME1 both Liara and Ash show more skin then Miri so what is your point exactly? Neverminf the fact that Miri is the only female LI that can undress without getting sick.

... But, I have no point.

I'm only saying Miranda's sex scene is the most sexual compared to all the other ME2 romance scenes and that her romance is also widely hailed as being the most sex-based.

I wasn't saying I agreed with it. I'm referring to other people's perceptions of "fanservice".

It's not widly hailed at all, only a small group of haters say that. The point that Miri is one of the most popular characters in ME3 and a very popular LI says alot.

[Breakdown Boy]

Nightwriter wrote...

Breakdown Boy wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Breakdown Boy wrote...

To be young and in love....what class are you playing with? I just finished the Collector ship mission and now doing Samara loyalty.

I wonder why some people say Miri is 'fan service' but I haven't heard anything like that about Samara?

Probably because she doesn't have a sex scene in an engine room where she unzips and all that, I suppose.

I think Samara is unzipped from the moment you see her? And in ME1 both Liara and Ash show more skin then Miri so what is your point exactly? Neverminf the fact that Miri is the only female LI that can undress without getting sick.

... But, I have no point.

I'm only saying Miranda's sex scene is the most sexual compared to all the other ME2 romance scenes and that her romance is also widely hailed as being the most sex-based.

I wasn't saying I agreed with it. I'm referring to other people's perceptions of "fanservice".

I like Miri and I don't see her that way.

I am going to stop now, if I continue I will just upset certain groups of people if I had to say who I really think is fanservice.

Modifié par Breakdown Boy, 03 mai 2010 - 08:07 .

[kraidy1117]

Miri is always so lovely.

[fongiel24]

G'night Shadow.

kraidy1117 wrote...

Like Miri's?

Exactly. Without that loyalty mission, I doubt Miranda would have even half the fans she has now.

Ieldra2 wrote...

I've
also thought about how my main maleShep is behind the mask he shows the
world, for much the same reasons. It's a different approach, though: he
starts out as nothing more but an exceptional Alliance commando soldier
(not a Soldier, though), but his exploits make him increasingly lonely
and detached from those he's set out to protect. Then he gets rebuilt
and even more enhanced by Cerberus. When he meets Delan (the mechanic)
on Horizon, he starts to question his mission. From the Reaper
IFF mission onwards, what drives him is loyalty to his crew and squad
rather than the cause of humanity, and somewhere in his mind the
traitorous thought is lurking: what if Nazara was right? 
Miranda's
role in this has yet to be determined.

That definitely presents a lot of possibilities. What do you mean by "Nazara was right" though? In what way?

Nightwriter wrote...

... But, I have no point.

I'm
only saying Miranda's sex scene is the most sexual compared to all the
other ME2 romance scenes and that her romance is also widely hailed as
being the most sex-based.

I wasn't saying I agreed with it. I'm
referring to other people's perceptions of "fanservice".

I have to admit, in my first playthrough I didn't even notice the over sexualized relationship between MShep and Miranda. Then again, I have XY chromosomes so that might explain it . Going through a second time though, I did wish that relationship was developed further though to become more of a personal connection rather than just a pre-suicide mission hookup.

[Breakdown Boy]

Fongiel24 wrote:
[/quote]

I have to admit, in my first playthrough I didn't even notice the over sexualized relationship between MShep and Miranda. Then again, I have XY chromosomes so that might explain it . Going through a second time though, I did wish that relationship was developed further though to become more of a personal connection rather than just a pre-suicide mission hookup.
[/quote]
______________________

Then again, it is a suicide mission and the whole fact of 'we might not make it' is also clear so why not make love before you might die and have no regrets going into possibly the last mission of you life?

Plus, sex relieves tension.

Modifié par Breakdown Boy, 03 mai 2010 - 08:22 .

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I've also thought about how my main maleShep is behind the mask he shows the world, for much the same reasons. It's a different approach, though: he starts out as nothing more but an exceptional Alliance commando soldier (not a Soldier, though), but his exploits make him increasingly lonely and detached from those he's set out to protect. Then he gets rebuilt and even more enhanced by Cerberus. When he meets Delan (the mechanic) on Horizon, he starts to question his mission. From the Reaper IFF mission onwards, what drives him is loyalty to his crew and squad rather than the cause of humanity, and somewhere in his mind the traitorous thought is lurking: what if Nazara was right? 
Miranda's role in this has yet to be determined.

That definitely presents a lot of possibilities. What do you mean by "Nazara was right" though? In what way?

It's questions like this: Does humanity as it is deserve to be saved? The Reapers want to transform humanity into something else. TIM wants that, too, though in another way. What if they have a point? The end of ME2 crushes these thoughts for now, at least with regard to what the Collectors were doing. But the possibility remains that Shepard will go Saren's way in the end, and without any indoctrination to help him along.

At the bottom of this lies another question: Can any species, any civilization, go through a crisis like the Reapers represent and stay the same? The Paragon path represents mainly an attempt to do exactly this. While that may be possible, is it also desirable? Aren't there chances in such a crisis that need to be taken? The Reapers represent the complete destruction of a species' identity, the often quoted "salvation through destruction" and as such the other extreme which of course no one can really want. No one in their right mind, Shepard thinks, but still: what if the human concept of "being in one's right mind" is flawed? Anyway, somewhere between these extremes lies the path into the future for humanity, and without really knowing what he does, Shepard's looking for it. And he fears the way these things make him think, for it makes him consider Nazara's points seriously, instead of rejecting them out-of-hand as an evil god's apocalyptic ideology.

I just noticed that with this, I'm trying to transform the Reaper's Cthulhu-esque attributes into something interesting. Shepard will come to question his own sanity, and others will, too. There's also a quote from one of my favorite SF books that applies to the situation:

"There are infinite possibilities, but not for Man." -- from "Neverness", by David Zindell.

[Ieldra]

Breakdown Boy wrote...

I have to admit, in my first playthrough I didn't even notice the over sexualized relationship between MShep and Miranda. Then again, I have XY chromosomes so that might explain it . Going through a second time though, I did wish that relationship was developed further though to become more of a personal connection rather than just a pre-suicide mission hookup.
______________________

Then again, it is a suicide mission and the whole fact of 'we might not make it' is also clear so why not make love before you might die and have no regrets going into possibly the last mission of you life?

Plus, sex relieves tension.

How true. Here's an excerpt of a song I like that I associate with Miranda:

I associate love with red,
The colour of my heart when she's dead;
Red in my mind when the jealousy flies,
Red in my eyes from emotional ties,
Manipulation, the danger signs.

The more I think about sex, the better it gets.
Here we have a purpose in life:
Good for the blood circulation,
Good for releasing the tension,
The root of our reincarnations.

-- from Symphony in Blue, by Kate Bush

While I appreciate that Miranda opens up herself for Shepard, accepting the emotional vulnerability, I've always found some truth in this. I also don't think that Miranda's romance is overly sexualized. She says herself it's more than that. I found her romance the most natural one of the three, really. Tali's almost a child compared to Shepard, and Jack's I can't take seriously as a romance. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 mai 2010 - 08:59 .

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

While I appreciate that Miranda opens up herself for Shepard, accepting the emotional vulnerability, I've always found some truth in this. I also don't think that Miranda's romance is overly sexualized. She says herself it's more than that. I found her romance the most natural one of the three, really. Tali's almost a child compared to Shepard, and Jack's I can't take seriously as a romance. 

I guess I just wish the romance had developed more gradually. As it is, you only get three conversations after Miranda's loyalty mission. I understand budget and time constraints, but if they'd even stretched it out to five, I think it would have made a big difference.

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

While I appreciate that Miranda opens up herself for Shepard, accepting the emotional vulnerability, I've always found some truth in this. I also don't think that Miranda's romance is overly sexualized. She says herself it's more than that. I found her romance the most natural one of the three, really. Tali's almost a child compared to Shepard, and Jack's I can't take seriously as a romance. 

I guess I just wish the romance had developed more gradually. As it is, you only get three conversations after Miranda's loyalty mission. I understand budget and time constraints, but if they'd even stretched it out to five, I think it would have made a big difference.

All ME1 and ME2 romances were the same in this regard, only ME2 made real scenes out of the conversations while in ME1 it was mostly just talking. While I'd prefer more ME2-style scenes, I'm mostly glad the scenes we have are so much more complex in ME2. Also, the romances shouldn't dominate the game to such an extent that they overshadow the main plot. A more involved romance would have to interact more with the main plot for me to appreciate it. If Bioware is willing to do that and can actually pull it off, I'll applaud them for it, but I have my doubts.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 mai 2010 - 12:11 .

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

All ME1 and ME2 romances were the same in this regard, only ME2 made real scenes out of the conversations while in ME1 it was mostly just talking. While I'd prefer more ME2-style scenes, I'm mostly glad the scenes we have are so much more complex in ME2. Also, the romances shouldn't dominate the game to such an extent that they overshadow the main plot. A more involved romance would have to interact more with the main plot for me to appreciate it. If Bioware is willing to do that and can actually pull it off, I'll applaud them for it, but I have my doubts.

Which is why Bioware should drop the act and make MShep/Miranda the ONLY romantic relationship in ME3! I'm joking (I think).

ME2's plot just revolved around its characters so much more than ME1 that I really found myself wanting to get to know all of my squadmates better, not just Miranda. In ME1, the characters took a backseat to the main plot. In ME2, it felt like the main plot took a back seat to the characters.

[Andysilv]

fongiel24 wrote...
ME2's plot just revolved around its characters so much more than ME1 that I really found myself wanting to get to know all of my squadmates better, not just Miranda. In ME1, the characters took a backseat to the main plot. In ME2, it felt like the main plot took a back seat to the characters.

Yeah, when I first finished ME2 I was gutted. I thought, damn, I love these characters and now we're going to lose them all in ME3. Of course now I think we have a much, much better chance of seeing them come back, that's why I'm here after all.

[Ieldra]

andysilv87 wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...
ME2's plot just revolved around its characters so much more than ME1 that I really found myself wanting to get to know all of my squadmates better, not just Miranda. In ME1, the characters took a backseat to the main plot. In ME2, it felt like the main plot took a back seat to the characters.

Yeah, when I first finished ME2 I was gutted. I thought, damn, I love these characters and now we're going to lose them all in ME3. Of course now I think we have a much, much better chance of seeing them come back, that's why I'm here after all.

I certainly hope so. Developing an existing character may be harder than making a new one. But I really wish for a better main plot integration. And, of course, a more prominent role for the main plot, and a more convincing reasoning for it all, in the first place. At least, or so it seems, ME2 sells well enough that they'll have the money to create an impressive finale.

[jtav]

Morning all. And, yes, Ieldra. Shepard and the rest of the squad were deliberately and systematically slaughtered. I kind of like the ending. What happens when your "Chosen One" dies and you have to fight on anyway?

[jtav]

Is it just me, or are there a surprising number of female Miranda fans on this forum?

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Is it just me, or are there a surprising number of female Miranda fans on this forum?

I don't know. Who apart from you and Vyndael is one?

As for your "everyone dies" game, the question is indeed interesting, and if they would let us play ME3 as someone else if Shepard died in ME2 I'd try it. But as we'll get another timeline's Shepard instead, I spare myself the torture of forcing myself to kill everyone.

[Valmy]

jtav wrote...

Is it just me, or are there a surprising number of female Miranda fans on this forum?

Why is that surprising?  Not all women are prejudiced against a character simply because she is good looking.

Miranda is a strong and well developed female character I am not surprised she appeals to some women.  Even if others try to make her into some symbol of everything wrong with video games, since no other forms of media have beautiful women in tight outfits either...especially those appealing to women.  Yep.  Never see that on Dancing with the Stars or anything.