43796 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

Agreeing with the spirit is good. I'm not at my most articulate on these matters. Too busy frothing and raging at Lawson Sr.

[ComTrav]

Ieldra2 wrote...


Btw, my own "vulnerable spot" is her confrontation with Jack. I cannot side with Jack - which is strange, because you can argue convincingly she deserves a rebuff there. Even so, this is not the time, and not the way, to sort out her relationship with Cerberus, especially not with a confrontative person like Jack on the other side. I'm glad I have the Paragon option here. 

This was always tough for me--what Cereberus did to Jack was pretty awful. On the other hand, Jack is just taking out all her rage on Miranda, who doesn't really deserve it.

But yeah, being a Paragon gets you out of it. (Or Renegade.) I actually like how Paragon or Renegade is tied directly to your persuasion score. If you're very high Paragon, you're a Captain America or Mother Theresa type who just inspires everyone through righteousness...and with very high renegade, everyone knows that they shouldn't mess with you.

[Nightwriter]

Markinator_123 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
The only time I had trouble was not nudging her to talk to her sister. That hurt. Everything else was easy. I'm just not protective of her as most of you. Gender difference?

There may be something of that in it, but in my case, it's mostly that I understand her too well. Taking various opportunities for "Renegade" conversation options:

(1) Right at the start of the game, the answer "Are you always that ****y.....". IMO he's being a jerk when he says that. In RL, the kind of people I dislike instantly are those who are intrusive and rude at the same time. I won't roleplay that.
(2) Then the "just remember who's in charge". Really. Such a jerk.
(3) Distrusting Niket: Very much OK. Some Shepards are too trusting, some see what's coming. And Miranda is, too, in this case.
(4) Letting her kill Niket. That's OK. It's what she says she wants. No reason not to take her at her word and let her deal with the consequences.
(5) Talk to Oriana: you could justify that, I think. But it does hurt. Especially after having her kill Niket.
(6) "This [meaning the romance] won't work". This is the thing I can never do. The "take the opportunity before we all die" setup is cheesy, but convincing nonetheless. The same with the pre-engine room scene.
(7) Confrontation with Jack. Well, Jack has a point, but given the choice, I'd never have brought her along in the first place. So I never side with her. The worst I can do is use the intimidation option.

 

Even though I like Miranda, when Shepard says "Are you naturally this *****y or is it just me?" She deserved that at that point in the game. Wouldn't you agree?

Yeah, she did a bit. It's not something I'd ever say to her, but if someone else said it I wouldn't call them the devil for it, she was being pretty frosty.

Also, jtav, what's gender difference got to do with being protective of Miranda, do you think?

[Ieldra]

ComTrav wrote...
But yeah, being a Paragon gets you out of it. (Or Renegade.) I actually like how Paragon or Renegade is tied directly to your persuasion score. If you're very high Paragon, you're a Captain America or Mother Theresa type who just inspires everyone through righteousness...and with very high renegade, everyone knows that they shouldn't mess with you.

As a rule, this is one thing I don't like. I don't like being forced to be a Paragon all (or even most) of the time just because most of my earlier decisions went that way. I want to be Paragon at one time (Miranda/Jack) and Renegade at others (Tali's loyalty mission, from the second choice in the trial to the trial's conclusion). I want to tell Kelham "I'm a Spectre, so talk" even if I've had few Renegade actions before.
The game doesn't make it too hard to get the best of both worlds in almost all situations, but you have to juggle the numbers and play the missions in a certain sequence, or you'll have important situations where you can't be what you want to be - and that sucks.

[Ieldra]

Nightwriter wrote...

Markinator_123 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
The only time I had trouble was not nudging her to talk to her sister. That hurt. Everything else was easy. I'm just not protective of her as most of you. Gender difference?

There may be something of that in it, but in my case, it's mostly that I understand her too well. Taking various opportunities for "Renegade" conversation options:

(1) Right at the start of the game, the answer "Are you always that ****y.....". IMO he's being a jerk when he says that. In RL, the kind of people I dislike instantly are those who are intrusive and rude at the same time. I won't roleplay that.
(2) Then the "just remember who's in charge". Really. Such a jerk.
(3) Distrusting Niket: Very much OK. Some Shepards are too trusting, some see what's coming. And Miranda is, too, in this case.
(4) Letting her kill Niket. That's OK. It's what she says she wants. No reason not to take her at her word and let her deal with the consequences.
(5) Talk to Oriana: you could justify that, I think. But it does hurt. Especially after having her kill Niket.
(6) "This [meaning the romance] won't work". This is the thing I can never do. The "take the opportunity before we all die" setup is cheesy, but convincing nonetheless. The same with the pre-engine room scene.
(7) Confrontation with Jack. Well, Jack has a point, but given the choice, I'd never have brought her along in the first place. So I never side with her. The worst I can do is use the intimidation option.

 

Even though I like Miranda, when Shepard says "Are you naturally this *****y or is it just me?" She deserved that at that point in the game. Wouldn't you agree?

Yeah, she did a bit. It's not something I'd ever say to her, but if someone else said it I wouldn't call them the devil for it, she was being pretty frosty.

No, I do not agree that she deserves to be called "****y" just for keeping her distance. In fact, I think Shepard comes across as pushy here. He's just woken up, barely knows Miranda for a few minutes, and already wants to know personal stuff. That's intrusive and deserves a rebuff.

And now I'm really off....

[Nightwriter]

Ieldra2 wrote...

No, I do not agree that she deserves to be called "****y" just for keeping her distance. In fact, I think Shepard comes across as pushy here. He's just woken up, barely knows Miranda for a few minutes, and already wants to know personal stuff. That's intrusive and deserves a rebuff.

And now I'm really off....

I didn't say she deserved it - I said the person who did call her that doesn't deserve to be burned at the stake.

She was quite cold. It's part of her character. Should you respond to coldness with rudeness? Well, no, if you're a decent and responsible person you shouldn't, it's bad form. But if you do respond with rudeness, I think it's important to note the rudeness didn't come out of nowhere, bad as it is.

All I'm saying.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 04 mai 2010 - 08:16 .

[fongiel24]

Nightwriter wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

No, I do not agree that she deserves to be called "****y" just for keeping her distance. In fact, I think Shepard comes across as pushy here. He's just woken up, barely knows Miranda for a few minutes, and already wants to know personal stuff. That's intrusive and deserves a rebuff.

And now I'm really off....

I didn't say she deserved it - I said the person who did call her that doesn't deserve to be burned at the stake.

She was quite cold. It's part of her character. Should you respond to coldness with rudeness? Well, no, if you're a decent and responsible person you shouldn't, it's bad form. But if you do respond with rudeness, I think it's important to note the rudeness didn't come out of nowhere, bad as it is.

All I'm saying.

I've got this theory that Shepherd and Miranda have got this game-within-a-game going on. Shepherd calling Miranda a b*tch is a way for him to try and provoke an emotional response to see what makes her tick.

[MrNose]

Ieldra2 wrote...

ComTrav wrote...
But yeah, being a Paragon gets you out of it. (Or Renegade.) I actually like how Paragon or Renegade is tied directly to your persuasion score. If you're very high Paragon, you're a Captain America or Mother Theresa type who just inspires everyone through righteousness...and with very high renegade, everyone knows that they shouldn't mess with you.

As a rule, this is one thing I don't like. I don't like being forced to be a Paragon all (or even most) of the time just because most of my earlier decisions went that way. I want to be Paragon at one time (Miranda/Jack) and Renegade at others (Tali's loyalty mission, from the second choice in the trial to the trial's conclusion). I want to tell Kelham "I'm a Spectre, so talk" even if I've had few Renegade actions before.
The game doesn't make it too hard to get the best of both worlds in almost all situations, but you have to juggle the numbers and play the missions in a certain sequence, or you'll have important situations where you can't be what you want to be - and that sucks.

I look at it as a social skills sort of thing.  If you practice taking these noble, charming ways of doing things, you get really good at it.  If you practice taking assertive "shut your mouth" actions, you get really good at that.  It's like a different sort of experience points.

[Nightwriter]

fongiel24 wrote...

I've got this theory that Shepherd and Miranda have got this game-within-a-game going on. Shepherd calling Miranda a b*tch is a way for him to try and provoke an emotional response to see what makes her tick.

Lol. That's cute.

Wish there had been something like this.

[MrNose]

Nightwriter wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

I've got this theory that Shepherd and Miranda have got this game-within-a-game going on. Shepherd calling Miranda a b*tch is a way for him to try and provoke an emotional response to see what makes her tick.

Lol. That's cute.

Wish there had been something like this.

BioWare could easily flesh out the characters simply by making it so that your LI opens up to you a TON and provides much more interaction than any other character.  Only one LI would do this per game.  It would require six people to do extra voice acting, but it would really emphasize the relationship and make your Shepard's experience seem more unique compared to your experience with other Shepards.

[fongiel24]

Old video card blew yesterday so I had to pick up a new one for my gaming rig and I just have to say... holy cr*p. The whole game looks amazing... especially a certain blue-eyed brunette. It's like falling in love again. Not that I'm saying I'm in love with a video game character *cough*

MrNose wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...



I've got this theory that Shepherd and Miranda have got this game-within-a-game going on. Shepherd calling Miranda a b*tch is a way for him to try and provoke an emotional response to see what makes her tick.

Lol. That's cute.



Wish there had been something like this.

BioWare could easily flesh out the characters simply by making it so that your LI opens up to you a TON and provides much more interaction than any other character. Only one LI would do this per game. It would require six people to do extra voice acting, but it would really emphasize the relationship and make your Shepard's experience seem more unique compared to your experience with other Shepards.

That would be amazing but I can't see it happening. Based on fan support here, if they were to do it it'd be for Tali. Maybe greater character development like in Heavy Rain? I've never played it but apparently they did a really great job at providing options for character interaction.

[MrNose]

fongiel24 wrote...

That would be amazing but I can't see it happening. Based on fan support here, if they were to do it it'd be for Tali. Maybe greater character development like in Heavy Rain? I've never played it but apparently they did a really great job at providing options for character interaction.

I don't think they would need to choose just one character, it couldn't be that hard to make it available for all of them, but only happen with the LI that you're using.  But I agree it won't happen!

Heavy Rain is one of my favourite games of all time, along with the ME series.  It has great character development, and the character interaction is great in that it's woven into the main story, but aside from a few main times, I never really felt like I had the most communication options.  I would recommend it to you for sure though.

[Sleepy Buddha]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Btw, my own "vulnerable spot" is her confrontation with Jack. I cannot side with Jack - which is strange, because you can argue convincingly she deserves a rebuff there. Even so, this is not the time, and not the way, to sort out her relationship with Cerberus, especially not with a confrontative person like Jack on the other side. I'm glad I have the Paragon option here. 

The first time I got to the confrontation with Jack, I did not have the paragon choice because I had done both their missions very early in the game.

Even then I sided with Miranda. And have done so ever since.

Not because of some personal bias against Jack, who I actually like quite a bit.

There are two reasons why I always make that choice.

First, I always take Miranda with me on every mission, so I took her on Jack's. Miranda's comments throughout the mission show how disgusted she is with what happened there and how much she disagrees with those kinds of actions. Taking Miranda out on every mission and listening to her comments gave me a very positive impression of her character.

Second, it's obvious that Jack was the one who sought Miranda out with the clear intention of provoking her and picking a fight, when Miranda had nothing to do with what had been done to her. Jack had a horrible childhood, but that doesn't give her the right to lash out against whoever she feels like.

While both of them are wrong in that confrontation, IMO Jack's actions are far more reprehensible because she is deliberately provocative and antagonistic, while Miranda is merely defensive. That just rubs me the wrong way, so I side with Miranda.


Night Ieldra. And I'm also going to bed. Keep up keeping up, everyone.

[fongiel24]

No PS3, unfortunately. I never grew up with console games so I've gotten too used to having a keyboard and mouse interface.



It'll be interesting what they do with ME3 though. I would even be willing to see the release date pushed back Blizzard-style (it's done when it's done) just to see them incorporate and explore the existing characters more fully. I suppose a 120-hour monstrosity would be too much to expect though.

[kraidy1117]

fongiel24 wrote...

No PS3, unfortunately. I never grew up with console games so I've gotten too used to having a keyboard and mouse interface.

It'll be interesting what they do with ME3 though. I would even be willing to see the release date pushed back Blizzard-style (it's done when it's done) just to see them incorporate and explore the existing characters more fully. I suppose a 120-hour monstrosity would be too much to expect though.

I would wait five years for ME3. I waited 7 years for OoT and that game was amazing and fantastic, Metroid Prime was in dev for a long time and that was fantastic. Bioware should take there time and if it takes longer then three years, then who cares? I want a fantastic product, not rushed.

[Nightwriter]

fongiel24 wrote...

That would be amazing but I can't see it happening. Based on fan support here, if they were to do it it'd be for Tali. Maybe greater character development like in Heavy Rain? I've never played it but apparently they did a really great job at providing options for character interaction.

That'd be a bit unfair, don't you think? Focusing on only one LI?

I think they'll either not do it at all or do it to a very small extent for everyone.

[jtav]

Yeah, everyone will get some extra content or no one will.



Can't write, damn it. Too many ideas running around my head at once. Might have to deal with a one-shot so I can focus. Miranda's great for my creativity. Not so great for my work ethic.

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

Yeah, everyone will get some extra content or no one will.

Can't write, damn it. Too many ideas running around my head at once. Might have to deal with a one-shot so I can focus. Miranda's great for my creativity. Not so great for my work ethic.

I've got the opposite problem right now. I've run into a creative deadend.

Question...

At what point do you guys think Miranda started opening up to Shepherd on more than a professional level? I'm struggling with the pacing of their relationship and any thoughts you might have would be very helpful.

[jtav]

Well, the obvious choice is the aftermath of her loyalty mission or the briefing for the same. That's when she's at her most emotionally vulnerable and if he's understanding and doesn't throw it back in her face, that would be a good cue that she could trust him with more.

[MrNose]

fongiel24 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Yeah, everyone will get some extra content or no one will.

Can't write, damn it. Too many ideas running around my head at once. Might have to deal with a one-shot so I can focus. Miranda's great for my creativity. Not so great for my work ethic.

I've got the opposite problem right now. I've run into a creative deadend.

Question...

At what point do you guys think Miranda started opening up to Shepherd on more than a professional level? I'm struggling with the pacing of their relationship and any thoughts you might have would be very helpful.

Well, when she told Shepard about herself because "he has a right to know", I think she found it rather cathartic.  And then again when he pointed out that she's obsessed with the fact that she was genetically modified.

[Nightwriter]

fongiel24 wrote...

Question...

At what point do you guys think Miranda started opening up to Shepherd on more than a professional level? I'm struggling with the pacing of their relationship and any thoughts you might have would be very helpful.

She seemed to open up on more than a professional level right after Freedom's Progress to me. Before that, it was all business, don't want to be friends. After that she's pretty friendly.

Or do you mean, open up on more than just a casual coworker level?

[ComTrav]

kraidy1117 wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

No PS3, unfortunately. I never grew up with console games so I've gotten too used to having a keyboard and mouse interface.

It'll be interesting what they do with ME3 though. I would even be willing to see the release date pushed back Blizzard-style (it's done when it's done) just to see them incorporate and explore the existing characters more fully. I suppose a 120-hour monstrosity would be too much to expect though.

I would wait five years for ME3. I waited 7 years for OoT and that game was amazing and fantastic, Metroid Prime was in dev for a long time and that was fantastic. Bioware should take there time and if it takes longer then three years, then who cares? I want a fantastic product, not rushed.

Waited a long, long time for Starcraft 2. Starcraft 2 was announced long before I had even played ME1.

Blizzard can get away with this sort of long development cycle partly because of its excellent reputation as a developer, and partly because World of Warcraft is like printing money. Some gamers might go so far as to say because WoW is so profitable, Blizzard actually doesn't feel *any* pressure to release a game.

Developers and publishers are in a tight spot, because they've committed all their resources, but don't get any return on investment until the game is released. For a major, AAA title, they may not even recoup all of their investment in sales; this is where DLC comes in (and, to a lesser extent, developing new IP.)

Bioware has an excellent track record with a lot of hits recently. I'm sure they'll have enough time and resources to make ME3 awesome, but I don't think they can afford to sit on the franchise forever.

[ComTrav]

http://social.biowar...685/polls/1887/



Like, four people should go vote in this.



It would make me happy. Especially since when I first found the poll in OP Poll Whack-a-Mole, Miranda was losing to the space hamster by a lot.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I think Bioware will be pressured more to develop things on a routine basis as EA continues to be at war with Activision.



I don't mind waiting, but as this is a story in limbo per say i do want closure.



In regards to long dev times I do not mind as many of my favorite games (in fact most of them) took forever and were delayed and delayed countless times.



Its kind of ironic though, I recently played Duke Nukem 3D for the first time and it was rather progressive, it was just caked with a bunch of obnoxious junk. Ironic that the sequel was on track to be released this year if it wasn't for legal problems. So I guess Dev cycles can work both ways, rushed is bad while drawn out can also be bad in some cases.