43796 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
No, you both will. You're gems, boys. Gems. You're Bigfoot, trust me. Bigfoot gems.

So I get my own doctored, blurry photo? Awesome.

No, you just get a crest with your name spelled wrong.

yesssss

[drunken pyromaniac]

Nightwriter wrote...


No, you both will. You're gems, boys. Gems. You're Bigfoot, trust me. Bigfoot gems.

Valmy I dunno what wonderful fetish-liberated world you're living in but I've never visited it. How's the weather there?

Awesome.
*prepare for influx of tourists*
"The man who's not attracted to lesbians!"

[MrNose]

Valmy wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
It just does not feel right IMO. It's like Morrigan and Alistair being a romance option for female/male warden. Just does't feel right.

In developement most people thought Morrigan was going to be the F/F option instead of Leliana.

It also seems sorta weird they were going to make almost every single female LI bisexual.  Ashley, Tali, Miranda, Liara, and Kelly?  I hope they at least considered a few of the male LIs the same way.  Seems really unfair to me. 

Society accepts female bisexuality easier...  Or something. 
But that's why I was saying that if they released a DLC with m/m and f/f romance options, I think it would be interesting if you had to explicitly make a character bisexual, and if they put in new heterosexual romances, if you had to explicitly make those options available. 
Ultimately, the approach each character takes to sex does say something about their identity, and so at this point it would be very difficult to release something which just applies a blanket change.  Imagine if you wanted to make Miri a bisexual option but had to do the same to Samara?  Samara as an LI would completely change the nature of who she is, since she was so firm with her rejection previously.

[Nightwriter]

Valmy wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
1.) The wink and coy remarks in the elevator.
2.) "Should've known you wouldn't settle for the captain's quarters" - don't know why but this line  was a bit of a mood killer, made it seem like it was just about sex.
3.) LACK OF DIALOGUE IN THE SCENE.

Oh come now we had had the big emotional set up and they were both exicted and ready for the intimate part.  Having a little fun and all.  I would bring up my own experience here but it would gross Vyn out

Anyway dialogue would have been a mood killer to me.  You were alone with romantic lights of the engine and it hum.  It was sweet and passionate I thought.

And it was a make out scene.  Nobody even had clothes off, it might be a lead up to foreplay scene perhaps.  ME1 was a sex scene.

Anyway I find this all rather absurd the entire romance was the dialog leading up to it.  Once you both admit you care about each other and she begs you not to die because she is allowing herself to fall for you emotionally...what more do you need to indicate this is a serious connection?  A huge neon sign?  It is hardly subtle.

Ah, I simply disagree. That scene was hurting for dialogue - the fact that it was the ONLY romance scene without dialogue made it stand out even more as the "simply sexual" romance.

In a romance that I'd just like to see more depth out of, I would've liked something to be said. It already was in danger of feeling fling-y. Also: dialogue didn't kill the romantic mood in the ME1 scenes.

[kraidy1117]

Nightwriter wrote...

Valmy wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
1.) The wink and coy remarks in the elevator.
2.) "Should've known you wouldn't settle for the captain's quarters" - don't know why but this line  was a bit of a mood killer, made it seem like it was just about sex.
3.) LACK OF DIALOGUE IN THE SCENE.

Oh come now we had had the big emotional set up and they were both exicted and ready for the intimate part.  Having a little fun and all.  I would bring up my own experience here but it would gross Vyn out

Anyway dialogue would have been a mood killer to me.  You were alone with romantic lights of the engine and it hum.  It was sweet and passionate I thought.

And it was a make out scene.  Nobody even had clothes off, it might be a lead up to foreplay scene perhaps.  ME1 was a sex scene.

Anyway I find this all rather absurd the entire romance was the dialog leading up to it.  Once you both admit you care about each other and she begs you not to die because she is allowing herself to fall for you emotionally...what more do you need to indicate this is a serious connection?  A huge neon sign?  It is hardly subtle.

Ah, I simply disagree. That scene was hurting for dialogue - the fact that it was the ONLY romance scene without dialogue made it stand out even more as the "simply sexual" romance.

In a romance that I'd just like to see more depth out of, I would've liked something to be said. It already was in danger of feeling fling-y. Also: dialogue didn't kill the romantic mood in the ME1 scenes.

I look at this way. Miris build-up was very strong, the sex scene wanted to show her exoctic side. I don't like it but it's what we got. I would have been more mad if the build-up to Miris scene was crap.

[Nightwriter]

kraidy1117 wrote...

I look at this way. Miris build-up was very strong, the sex scene wanted to show her exoctic side. I don't like it but it's what we got. I would have been more mad if the build-up to Miris scene was crap.

What do you mean? How was it strong?

[Collider]

MrNose wrote...
Society accepts female bisexuality easier...  Or something. 
But that's why I was saying that if they released a DLC with m/m and f/f romance options, I think it would be interesting if you had to explicitly make a character bisexual, and if they put in new heterosexual romances, if you had to explicitly make those options available. 
Ultimately, the approach each character takes to sex does say something about their identity, and so at this point it would be very difficult to release something which just applies a blanket change.  Imagine if you wanted to make Miri a bisexual option but had to do the same to Samara?  Samara as an LI would completely change the nature of who she is, since she was so firm with her rejection previously.

I don't like the idea because it's changes something important about the character. Orientation may not seem to matter much to some people but it is a facet of every character and every person. I don't want the game to retcon Miranda into liking females sexually when in all the playthroughs I've done she hasn't been. I wouldn't really care if Miranda was bisexual romance to start with, but now that the game is released, let her (and other character)'s orientation be.

[ComTrav]

There's room for either the "it was love!" or "it was just sex" reading in any of the romance/love scenes IMO. I think they require you to role-play it up a bit with your Shepard to definitively say one way or the other--and I think having this kind of ambiguity is why Shepard is probably a really difficult character to write.



I do have a bit of a gripe with the Miranda love scenes complete lack of interaction. A little dialogue would've been nice, some interrupts would've been better.

[MrNose]

Nightwriter wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

I look at this way. Miris build-up was very strong, the sex scene wanted to show her exoctic side. I don't like it but it's what we got. I would have been more mad if the build-up to Miris scene was crap.

What do you mean? How was it strong?

The Miri romance is built over multiple conversations.  Tali's starts off with her going "I'm into you" and then turns into a logistics conversation.  Jack's happens fairly quickly...  It goes "I hate you, I hate you, and lets do this." 

A lot of their romance story happens in the romance scene.  Miri's all happens before it.  This actually affects gameplay.  With Miri you have to complete the romance before the suicide mission, because Miri's romance is interwoven with the story.  Jack and Tali's romances are seperate from the story and can be approached as such.

[Nightwriter]

MrNose wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

I look at this way. Miris build-up was very strong, the sex scene wanted to show her exoctic side. I don't like it but it's what we got. I would have been more mad if the build-up to Miris scene was crap.

What do you mean? How was it strong?

The Miri romance is built over multiple conversations.  Tali's starts off with her going "I'm into you" and then turns into a logistics conversation.  Jack's happens fairly quickly...  It goes "I hate you, I hate you, and lets do this." 

A lot of their romance story happens in the romance scene.  Miri's all happens before it.  This actually affects gameplay.  With Miri you have to complete the romance before the suicide mission, because Miri's romance is interwoven with the story.  Jack and Tali's romances are seperate from the story and can be approached as such.

... Since I feel quite surprised that you and others would say such a thing, I feel it's probably apparent that I didn't get the same impression.

I by no means felt like the whole romance was over and done with before the suicide mission, or that we'd said everything there was to say, or that all the build up there could ever be had already happened and there was no point having a single extra line of dialogue. 

The romance progression felt pretty normal to me - so it stuck out when there was no dialogue.

[fongiel24]

Nightwriter wrote...

... Since I feel quite surprised that you and others would say such a thing, I feel it's probably apparent that I didn't get the same impression.

I by no means felt like the whole romance was over and done with before the suicide mission, or that we'd said everything there was to say, or that all the build up there could ever be had already happened and there was no point having a single extra line of dialogue. 

The romance progression felt pretty normal to me - so it stuck out when there was no dialogue.

I've honestly never played ME2 having romanced anyone but Miranda (does that make me a virtual monogamist?) so I didn't know there was dialogue in any of the romance scenes. 

I didn't find the Miranda love scene to be too jarring (other than my beef about Shepard having to lie on a hard metal floor through the whole act ).

This is how I see it in my head:

Shepard and Miranda have been bringing the relationship along for weeks. They both clearly want each other, but early on, Miranda isn't sure about pursuing a relationship on a suicide mission. If it was just about sex, she might have but Shepard is different. She thinks she might have feelings for him and so she wants to be careful and play it slow.

When she finally gives in (the last conversation where she talks about whether what they're feeling is just hormones or something more), they're both just so busy with preparing for the mission that they never get much time together.

So finally, the ship is lined up with the Omega 4 relay, it's too late to make any final preparations, they've got a few hours to spare for each other, the tension has just been building up for so long that they don't care about the verbal foreplay anymore, they just want to skip ahead to the physical stuff.

[Nightwriter]

fongiel24 wrote...

I've honestly never played ME2 having romanced anyone but Miranda (does that make me a virtual monogamist?) so I didn't know there was dialogue in any of the romance scenes. 

I didn't find the Miranda love scene to be too jarring (other than my beef about Shepard having to lie on a hard metal floor through the whole act ).

This is how I see it in my head:

Shepard and Miranda have been bringing the relationship along for weeks. They both clearly want each other, but early on, Miranda isn't sure about pursuing a relationship on a suicide mission. If it was just about sex, she might have but Shepard is different. She thinks she might have feelings for him and so she wants to be careful and play it slow.

When she finally gives in (the last conversation where she talks about whether what they're feeling is just hormones or something more), they're both just so busy with preparing for the mission that they never get much time together.

So finally, the ship is lined up with the Omega 4 relay, it's too late to make any final preparations, they've got a few hours to spare for each other, the tension has just been building up for so long that they don't care about the verbal foreplay anymore, they just want to skip ahead to the physical stuff.

First - yes, it does make you a virtual monogamist! Congrats.

And that's a good interpretation, I respect that. I guess that, for me personally, I didn't feel any overwhelming buildup of tension - tension buildup happens for me during the pre-sex dialogue. Does that make sense?

Buildup to that moment through dialogue really heightens and enhances the whole scene for me - and selecting dialogue options provides a level of interaction that really draws you into the scene.

[Collider]

The Miranda romance scene would have benefit from dialog, no doubt. As Nightwriter said, the dialog shortly before is what makes for the build up.

[MrNose]

Nightwriter wrote...

... Since I feel quite surprised that you and others would say such a thing, I feel it's probably apparent that I didn't get the same impression.

I by no means felt like the whole romance was over and done with before the suicide mission, or that we'd said everything there was to say, or that all the build up there could ever be had already happened and there was no point having a single extra line of dialogue.

The romance progression felt pretty normal to me - so it stuck out when there was no dialogue.

I didn't mean that the romance was over and done with in terms of quality, just that's when the devs decided to end it.  My main point is that there isn't a huge difference in the amount of romantic content between the three female romances, imo the main difference is that Miri's content takes place in the main storyline, and a good deal of Tali and Jack's takes place during the actual scene.

Tali and Jack don't have anything like kiss scene with Miri, or like the "don't die on me" speech.  Their angst is saved for the romance scene itself. 

Would I have liked it if Miri had dialogue in her scene?  Heck yes.  The climactic nature of the romance scene would have made the dialogue more impactful if it was there for sure.

Modifié par MrNose, 06 mai 2010 - 05:58 .

[kraidy1117]

Collider wrote...

The Miranda romance scene would have benefit from dialog, no doubt. As Nightwriter said, the dialog shortly before is what makes for the build up.

I just would have loved a better explantion why we are doing it in the engine room. We all know the engine room has the best lighting, thus they decided to use it for her because she needs the best lighting, but theres nothing that tells us why she wants to do it in there.

[kraidy1117]

Hello xtream.

[fongiel24]

Nightwriter wrote...

And that's a good
interpretation, I respect that. I guess that, for me personally,
I didn't feel any overwhelming buildup of tension - tension buildup
happens for me during the pre-sex dialogue. Does that make sense?

Buildup
to that moment through dialogue really heightens and enhances the whole
scene for me - and selecting dialogue options provides a level of
interaction that really draws you into the scene.

Collider wrote...

The Miranda romance scene would have
benefit from dialog, no doubt. As Nightwriter said, the dialog shortly
before is what makes for the build up.

I agree with both of you guys that dialogue would have enhanced the scene. It's just that for me, never having seen an ME2 romance scene with dialogue, I basically had no idea what I was missing.

Given what the game presents us to work with though, I guess my mind was just trying to find a way to make it work.

Shameless plug: I finally posted the first two chapters of that MShep/Miranda fic I've been working on. The story as a whole is still a work in progress, but I'm eager to hear what people think of what I've got so far.

http://www.fanfictio...13/1/Casualties

[Nightwriter]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Collider wrote...

The Miranda romance scene would have benefit from dialog, no doubt. As Nightwriter said, the dialog shortly before is what makes for the build up.

I just would have loved a better explantion why we are doing it in the engine room. We all know the engine room has the best lighting, thus they decided to use it for her because she needs the best lighting, but theres nothing that tells us why she wants to do it in there.

I don't prefer bright sterile white lighting, myself. Dim red lighting for my romance scenes, please. The kind that makes everything a little bit blurry and gives it an airbrushed quality. Yes.

And it was just a big pretty place, kraidy. Prettiest place on the ship, that's all. The kind of big open pretty place that makes you remember what happened there every time you pass it and think "we did it on the floor right there".

Admit it, you'll never look at that place on the engine room floor the same way again. Ever.

[kraidy1117]

Nightwriter wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Collider wrote...

The Miranda romance scene would have benefit from dialog, no doubt. As Nightwriter said, the dialog shortly before is what makes for the build up.

I just would have loved a better explantion why we are doing it in the engine room. We all know the engine room has the best lighting, thus they decided to use it for her because she needs the best lighting, but theres nothing that tells us why she wants to do it in there.

I don't prefer bright sterile white lighting, myself. Dim red lighting for my romance scenes, please. The kind that makes everything a little bit blurry and gives it an airbrushed quality. Yes.

And it was just a big pretty place, kraidy. Prettiest place on the ship, that's all. The kind of big open pretty place that makes you remember what happened there every time you pass it and think "we did it on the floor right there".

Admit it, you'll never look at that place on the engine room floor the same way again. Ever.

I infact went to all the windows and the only window that you could see it is from Thanes window because theres a reflection.  I also stood on the spot and smiled to my self. I banged a hot girl right here

[Nightwriter]

There you go, kraidy. Though I think the more correct phrase would be "a hot girl banged me right here."

[kraidy1117]

Nightwriter wrote...

There you go, kraidy. Though I think the more correct phrase would be "a hot girl banged me right here."

Sttill had sex with a hot girl there. I want to put a "no walking here sign" there. It's scared to me.

[fongiel24]

Nightwriter wrote...

I don't prefer bright sterile white lighting, myself. Dim red lighting for my romance scenes, please. The kind that makes everything a little bit blurry and gives it an airbrushed quality. Yes.

That description suddenly made me think of Amsterdam's red light district when I was there a few years back . But I don't think that's the type of romance scene you were thinking of.

Edit: Dammit I clearly have no idea how to put pictures on these forums.

Modifié par fongiel24, 06 mai 2010 - 06:56 .

[kraidy1117]

fongiel24 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I don't prefer bright sterile white lighting, myself. Dim red lighting for my romance scenes, please. The kind that makes everything a little bit blurry and gives it an airbrushed quality. Yes.

That description suddenly made me think of Amsterdam's red light district when I was there a few years back . But I don't think that's the type of romance scene you were thinking of. 

file:///C:/Users/Dan/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-4.pngfile:///C:/Users/Dan/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-5.png

Last time I was at Amsterdam on a buisness trip I saw exotic toys hanging in a window....

[Nightwriter]

Those copy and paste glitches can be a b*tch, huh fongiel?