43796 réponses à ce sujet

[ComTrav]

bas273 wrote...

I just finished Mass Effect: Galaxy... and I was shocked when I saw the final cutscene. Miranda was flirting with Jacob??!
I prefer the Miranda from ME2 and the Jacob from ME: Galaxy, that might sound a bit strange but I don't think I'm the only one with that opinion .

Was a little surprised they didn't follow through with this more.

Jacob: She deserves a better man then me...
Shepard: Well, with an attitude like that, you'll NEVER get the girl!

Always felt so sorry for Jacob, he just felt so swept aside in ME3.

[Valmy]

Nightwriter wrote...
I don't want you to feel like just because you like Miranda and this romance, you have to defend the sex scene to me. You don't. This romance is actually my favorite. I hate adopting a defense/attack position to these discussions, especially when I'm in this thread.

I am naturally snarky.  I do need to tone it down.

I can't be the only one who's wondered whether the romance was just physical - you've heard that before. A lot of people say it seemed like a fling, especially in the other LI threads, and it bothers me.

You've got the "Who said anything about love? I just want to get you into bed" comment. As the upper-right paragon option. You've got the only sex scene that has no dialogue. You've got the engine room. You've got the "maybe I wouldn't mind you admiring my body" line - stuff like that. The wink in the elevator and the "I've cleared out the engine room" thing was cute and coy, but again it focuses only on sex.

What about 'I care about you Miranda, and I know you care about me'  You can tell by the tone of Sheps voice and Mirandas that he is kidding when he says the love line.  Anyway I didn't use that one.  There is some fun and flirting in the romance but you can tell by the way the lines are delivered that they are kidding and are almost always sandwiched between serious dialog that express real feelings.  After all the 'admire my body' line came right after Shep said something very heartfelt.  I have heard that point made and it annoys me a bit since it seems to me you could only come to that conclusion by completely ignoring tone and context.

A sex scene should be a sum-up of everything that's led up to that moment, it should address the emotion of everything that's passed between them. Talking - even brief talking - sets the stage for that and builds up the tension for the final moment. I missed that in Miranda's scene. It's okay if you disagree. I don't pretend everyone's going to feel the same way I do.

Again the emotional convo was somewhat awkwardly done in the last lead up conversation and that SHOULD have immediately followed by a sex scene.  I get that that didn't work very well for you.  What I am disagreeing with is that that means the romance means less or that it means there is no emotional part of the romance.

It was poor pacing that is a side effect of the bizarre need for the sex scene always to take place before the final battle.  But it doesn't mean anything more than that.

But I could be wrong, maybe we will discover in ME3 that Miranda doesn't care for Shep at all.  I hope you are wrong.

[Valmy]

ComTrav wrote...

Was a little surprised they didn't follow through with this more.

Jacob: She deserves a better man then me...
Shepard: Well, with an attitude like that, you'll NEVER get the girl!

Always felt so sorry for Jacob, he just felt so swept aside in ME3.

He made a better leading man then supporting actor that is for sure.

[Valmy]

jtav wrote...

I wanted more talking too. I keep saying this, but the scene would have been so much better if the "promise me" scene had immediately preceded it

This I totally agree with.

[Markinator_123]

Tali's romance was the biggest fling in the game. While I do believe that there should have been a bit more talking in Miranda's romance, it was overall nicely done.

[Ieldra]

Valmy wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I believe a gut feeling and instinct that amounts to disgust and a feeling of being tainted is unreasonable. I don't trust such feelings one bit. As a rule. It's a result of cheap horror effects Bioware chose to present us with in order to evoke exactly this feeling. Not with me, Bioware.

Where there is smoke there is fire.

Another fallacy, where intuitions are concerned.

But then my Shep generally acts out of emotion and intuition and gut feelings rather than logic and careful calculations.  Every mission is personal and I go in with more determination than anything else.  So it would have been very OOC for him to save the base.

I guess I know too much about how moral intuitions arise, and how easily they're manipulated. For instance, reliance on gut instincts which developed to engender group loyalty got us into fascism. I'll never trust them again.
 

We will see who is right in ME3 eh?

I guess we won't. What we will see is that TIM can't be trusted. But we already know that. But if the Reapers are destroyed, and nobody has tried to understand their tech, we still don't know what it is.

Anway, I feel unable to accept the premise that technology can be unavoidably "corrupting", that it is impossible to counter its dangers by understanding. That's the real issue here.

[Markinator_123]

Regardless of the decision you made with the collector base, Bioware really did paint the Illusive man as a bad guy in the game's conclusion.

[ComTrav]

Ieldra2 wrote...


Anway, I feel unable to accept the premise that technology can be unavoidably "corrupting", that it is impossible to counter its dangers by understanding. That's the real issue here.

...slightly OT, but has it occurred to anyone that humanity (and the Council races) don't really understand the eezero, biotics, the Mass Relays, or lots of things that undergird interstellar civilization? I'm hoping to see some kind of payoff/connection there in ME3.

("You think the Protheans built the mass relays, you ignorant dolts" was probably my favorite ME1 reveal.)

[Nightwriter]

Valmy wrote...

What about 'I care about you Miranda, and I know you care about me'  You can tell by the tone of Sheps voice and Mirandas that he is kidding when he says the love line.  Anyway I didn't use that one.  There is some fun and flirting in the romance but you can tell by the way the lines are delivered that they are kidding and are almost always sandwiched between serious dialog that express real feelings.  After all the 'admire my body' line came right after Shep said something very heartfelt.  I have heard that point made and it annoys me a bit since it seems to me you could only come to that conclusion by completely ignoring tone and context.

You can, if you try, wrangle it so that the romance comes off feeling more serious, but this takes conscious effort and it can easily come off like a fling if you're not careful. The potential for fling-iness is still there, and still very present.

Valmy wrote...

Again the emotional convo was somewhat awkwardly done in the last lead up conversation and that SHOULD have immediately followed by a sex scene.  I get that that didn't work very well for you.  What I am disagreeing with is that that means the romance means less or that it means there is no emotional part of the romance.

It was poor pacing that is a side effect of the bizarre need for the sex scene always to take place before the final battle.  But it doesn't mean anything more than that.

But I could be wrong, maybe we will discover in ME3 that Miranda doesn't care for Shep at all.  I hope you are wrong.

I'm not saying she didn't care for Shepard! I hold that she does. Perhaps what I'm saying most is I don't like how... accessible... this romance was to players only interested in sex devoid of meaning. Does that make sense?

And I agree, like jtav said, the "promise me you won't die" scene should've preceeded the romance scene, it would've made everything magically better. Pacing.

[Valmy]

Ieldra2 wrote...
For instance, reliance on gut instincts which developed to engender group loyalty got us into fascism. I'll never trust them again

So if I feel in my heart something is wrong and I don't do it based on that I am walking down the road to fascism?

[jtav]

Valmy wrote...

jtav wrote...

I wanted more talking too. I keep saying this, but the scene would have been so much better if the "promise me" scene had immediately preceded it

This I totally agree with.

And it could have been easily done. Play up Miranda's anxieties about becoming emotionally involved during the suicide mission. "I want this, but not right now." After you set course for the relay, she calls you to her room and says she's been doing some thinking. She doesn't want to wait after all. She asks you to promise you won't die, with the normal choices (hug and "worth it" included.) She smiles, says "Then what are you waiting for?" and kisses you. Cue the beginning of a fun, playful sex scene.

[Nightwriter]

jtav wrote...

And it could have been easily done. Play up Miranda's anxieties about becoming emotionally involved during the suicide mission. "I want this, but not right now." After you set course for the relay, she calls you to her room and says she's been doing some thinking. She doesn't want to wait after all. She asks you to promise you won't die, with the normal choices (hug and "worth it" included.) She smiles, says "Then what are you waiting for?" and kisses you. Cue the beginning of a fun, playful sex scene.

jtav, you should've frickin' wrote the romance scene. Damn.

[Valmy]

Nightwriter wrote...
You can, if you try, wrangle it so that the romance comes off feeling more serious, but this takes conscious effort and it can easily come off like a fling if you're not careful. The potential for fling-iness is still there, and still very present.

It never occured to me at all at any moment during the romance that it was a fling.  I mean it started over a heart to heart about her sister and previous conversations learning about her, the flirting only came later and was fun, romance is supposed to be fun not this super heavy thing all the time.  I think that is why I sorta react with confusion when I hear the fling thing.

Modifié par Valmy, 06 mai 2010 - 04:44 .

[Markinator_123]

Nightwriter wrote...

jtav wrote...

And it could have been easily done. Play up Miranda's anxieties about becoming emotionally involved during the suicide mission. "I want this, but not right now." After you set course for the relay, she calls you to her room and says she's been doing some thinking. She doesn't want to wait after all. She asks you to promise you won't die, with the normal choices (hug and "worth it" included.) She smiles, says "Then what are you waiting for?" and kisses you. Cue the beginning of a fun, playful sex scene.

jtav, you should've frickin' wrote the romance scene. Damn.

Hopefully, the romance will continue nicely into ME3 and will develop into something more meaningful and epic at the same time. That is one of things I really want. I want both Shepard and Miranda to take to the next level.

[Valmy]

Nightwriter wrote...
I'm not saying she didn't care for Shepard! I hold that she does. Perhaps what I'm saying most is I don't like how... accessible... this romance was to players only interested in sex devoid of meaning. Does that make sense?

Ah ok that I can get.

Yeah Miranda is certainly built to...attract a certain element and I think it is unfortunate that those of us who actually like the character get a little frustrated by that.  See the 'Attack of the Show' interview with Yvonne Strahovski.

[Valmy]

Nightwriter wrote...
jtav, you should've frickin' wrote the romance scene. Damn.

jtrav is definitely a romantic

[Markinator_123]

Valmy wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
I'm not saying she didn't care for Shepard! I hold that she does. Perhaps what I'm saying most is I don't like how... accessible... this romance was to players only interested in sex devoid of meaning. Does that make sense?

Ah ok that I can get.

Yeah Miranda is certainly built to...attract a certain element and I think it is unfortunate that those of us who actually like the character get a little frustrated by that.  See the 'Attack of the Show' interview with Yvonne Strahovski.

You mean the one with that douchebag interviewer? What a great way to portray gamers as shallow, horny males. I can't imagine how uncomfortable Yvonne felt.

Modifié par Markinator_123, 06 mai 2010 - 04:46 .

[jtav]

You like it that much Nightwriter? I'm not sure it lends itself to a story, but I wish I could mod the game.

[Nightwriter]

jtav wrote...

You like it that much Nightwriter? I'm not sure it lends itself to a story, but I wish I could mod the game.

Yes, I like it. That. Much. It's simple and perfect.

Oh, and what's this about an interview? I keep hearing about that, but I only ever seem to see the edited version, so I never have any idea what people are talking about.

[ComTrav]

Valmy wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
I'm not saying she didn't care for Shepard! I hold that she does. Perhaps what I'm saying most is I don't like how... accessible... this romance was to players only interested in sex devoid of meaning. Does that make sense?

Ah ok that I can get.

Yeah Miranda is certainly built to...attract a certain element and I think it is unfortunate that those of us who actually like the character get a little frustrated by that.  See the 'Attack of the Show' interview with Yvonne Strahovski.

One advantage of being gone for a while is all my old theories are new again .

Think how many players just do the Miranda romance because of her looks, and think how many players dismiss her entire plot-arc because "she's just eye candy". This is a powerful feminist commentary; positively or negatively, women are initially judged entirely on their appearance--often, even by other women.

[jtav]

Valmy wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
jtav, you should've frickin' wrote the romance scene. Damn.

jtav is definitely a romantic

I trust no one here has a problem with that?  I wear so many hats in this thread that I fear I confuse people.

[ComTrav]

Markinator_123 wrote...

You mean the one with that douchebag interviewer? What a great way to portray gamers as shallow, horny males. I can't imagine how uncomfortable Yvonne felt.

Googling so you don't have to--I actually haven't seen this before.

And Miranda's NOT the sexiest alien in ME2, she's not an alien.

A little upsetting, because it's on G4TV, which is a channel for video gamers. It's like saying on ESPN that sports fans are stupid and don't shower.

[Valmy]

Markinator_123 wrote...
You mean the one with that douchebag interviewer? What a great way to portray gamers as shallow, horny males. I can't imagine how uncomfortable Yvonne felt.

Here is the best part: fans were so furious at him he actually apologised on twitter for it.

[Ieldra]

ComTrav wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Anway, I feel unable to accept the premise that technology can be unavoidably "corrupting", that it is impossible to counter its dangers by understanding. That's the real issue here.

...slightly OT, but has it occurred to anyone that humanity (and the Council races) don't really understand the eezero, biotics, the Mass Relays, or lots of things that undergird interstellar civilization? I'm hoping to see some kind of payoff/connection there in ME3.

("You think the Protheans built the mass relays, you ignorant dolts" was probably my favorite ME1 reveal.)

Of course it has. While I'm not so sure about eezo and biotics, it's completely clear Citadel Civilization doesn't understand mass relasy. The sheer stupidity of using technology you don't understand for thousands of years never ceases to amaze me. At least the Protheans tried, though it all came too late. I do not believe human scientists would let this situation continue for another thousand years, even without the Reapers. Maybe the "humans are special" trope does comes down to this. Then it would be believable, and even the nonsensical post-contact timeline would serve a purpose, for who but an absolute newcomer would be able to sense that something is wrong.

BTW, that's one reason why I like Aethyta. She puts the finger into the wound.

[Nightwriter]

jtav wrote...

Valmy wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
jtav, you should've frickin' wrote the romance scene. Damn.

jtav is definitely a romantic

I trust no one here has a problem with that?  I wear so many hats in this thread that I fear I confuse people.

I quite like it. I just wish I could get more Shepard/Miranda fanfic out of you. Maybe I'll resort to pestering tactics. No, that's never conducive to creativity for me... I'll think of something. Just you wait.