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[Ieldra]

Collider wrote...
Miranda is the main love interest advertised by Bioware, and also has the sexy aspect. They believe that they replaced Ashley and Liara with Miranda who has the sexy thing going on.

I think most of the anger at the new LI characters, and particularly at Miranda as the most popular one (Tali counts as one of the old crew), comes from the fact that the way the old LIs were treated was perceived as unfair. Which is both wrong and true. Wrong, because for the new ones to have any chance, the old ones had to take a backseat, and for the darker part of the trilogy Bioware were aiming for, the absence of LIs connected to the Alliance was important. True, because the scene on Horizon was not at all convincing - it was as if Bioware thought "let's get this old stuff over with and get on with the story" - and the new Liara was a shock: there seemed to be nothing left of the young and somewhat reclusive archaeologist who had more fun poking into old ruins than with dealing with people.

I don't know what they're aiming for in ME3, but I hope every LI character will get at least a fair treatment. I still think some (Miranda, Tali, either Ashley or Kaidan) may be more integral to the plot than others, but nonetheless all of them should get good interaction and a selection of fitting epilogue scenes. And all should be selectable as squadmates, though I would accept some mutual exclusiions in any one game.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 mai 2010 - 08:13 .

[Collider]

Those are some good points Ieldra. In regards to what I said about Miranda being "sexy," that is basically the complaint of one of the Ashley/Liara fans, that she was replacing them. I don't agree with them, but that was one of the things I observed.



I agree that if you bring back one love interest for ME3, you must bring back them all. And they all should have equal romance content. I expect Ashley/Kaidan and Liara to have the most relevance to the plot based upon what Bioware said, though.

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't know what they're aiming for in ME3, but I hope every LI character will get at least a fair treatment. I still think some (Miranda, Tali, either Ashley or Kaidan) may be more integral to the plot than others, but nonetheless all of them should get good interaction and a selection of fitting epilogue scenes. And all should be selectable as squadmates, though I would accept some mutual exclusiions in any one game.

This is going to be a tall order. I think ME2's writers made some mistakes with Kaidan/Ashley and Liara that will make it difficult for them to bring the ME1 trio back in ME3 in a form that will be recognizable to their ME1 fans.

Regarding Kaidan/Ashley, from reading some of what's been posted on these forums, a lot of people felt betrayed by the cameo on Horizon and justifiably so. I understand the logic of Kaidan/Ashley being uncomfortable with Shepard working with Cerberus but some very harsh language was traded and serious accusations made. I've played Horizon with both Ashley and Kaidan and I felt that Ashley's reponse in particular would make it very hard for me to want her back as a teammate in ME3. Her comments at best can be interpreted as accusing Shepard of naivete and divided loyalties, at worst they can be interpreted as charges of treason. Those kinds of accusations can't easily be taken back nor are easily forgotten. 

Liara's writing in ME2 was also problematic but in another way. The character development of Liara in ME2 has been pushed in a very extreme direction, going from naive archeologist in ME1 to cynical veteran information broker in ME2. It's been discussed elsewhere whether the changes are believable but in any case, if the writers keep up this current course of character development, the Liara of ME3 will be very different from the Liara of ME1 that her fans fell in love with.

[EffectedByTheMasses]

On the contrary, I think ME3 in regards to Liara will be about her finding her revenge and whatnot and shepard helps her become who she is once again. That may explain the vast change in her between ME1 and ME2.

As for Miranda, I'd prefer her over Ash and maybe Liara any day. I despised Ash.

[kraidy1117]

Miri, Tali and Legion are the only characters from ME2 that play huge parts in the story. Most likely they will come back and if you got them killed, then you miss out on the story. It's time Bioware proved that are choices do matter.

[Ieldra]

Sixth Goul wrote...
I have to ask,with in reason, what would be the most unforgivable thing Bioware could do to Miranda's character and or would it apply to any character in general?

In no particular order of importance:
(1) Make Miranda nothing more but Shepard's satellite. Play down her personality, independence and competence. This does not apply as strongly to other characers because Miranda is defined by these traits more than the other LIs.
(2) Play down the importance of the romance, as suggested by naming the relevant achievement "paramour". Grrr...Miranda is not a fling, she's Shepard's only real love, the one who is almost as if made for him...
(3) Remove her moral ambiguity.
(4) Reduce her role in general. Fob players off with a little cameo similar to the way ME1 LIs were treated on Horizon. This also applies to all other LIs. ME3 is the final part of the story, the LI you have selected as "yours" should play a significant role.

OK, I do hope, and I think I have reason to hope, that none of these will happen.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 mai 2010 - 08:47 .

[kraidy1117]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sixth Goul wrote...
I have to ask,with in reason, what would be the most unforgivable thing Bioware could do to Miranda's character and or would it apply to any character in general?

In no particular order of importance:
(1) Make Miranda nothing more but Shepard's satellite. Play down her personality, independence and competence. This does not apply as strongly to other characers because Miranda is defined by these traits more than the other LIs.

They pull that sh*t and I will be very disapointed in Bioware.

[Collider]

I just hope that they don't go the DA route, Ieldra. I would hate for some sort of Dragon Age choice or ending involved with the love interests.

Modifié par Collider, 19 mai 2010 - 08:48 .

[EffectedByTheMasses]

@Kraidy1117 I think Legion and Wrex will have similar roles in ME3, if what most predictions say are to be believed.

[kraidy1117]

Collider wrote...

I just hope that they don't go the DA route, Ieldra. I would hate for some sort of Dragon Age choice or ending involved with the love interests.

Well this is how I look at it. If Bioware wnats our choices to matter, then during the final battle Shepard and his whole squad go to take down the Reapers while your army distracts the Reapers. This is where your choices come in handy. Did't have the Rachni? You lose a teammate, did't keep the base? You lose a squadmate. This keeps going, making itp oseable for your LI too die and more of the worse choices you made, the more it becomes harder to beat the repears, maybe even one ending where the Reapers win. They should make the final mission similar to the suicide mission but this time deaths rely on your choices.

[kraidy1117]

EffectedByTheMasses wrote...

@Kraidy1117 I think Legion and Wrex will have similar roles in ME3, if what most predictions say are to be believed.

Nah Legion is too imporent too leave Shepard right now. He is the only contact to the Geth that Shepard has and Geth are building there forces.

[fongiel24]

I'm actually hoping for an ambiguous death for Shepard in ME3. Bioware has said they want to take the Mass Effect universe in a different direction after ME3. A death scene for Shepard where we never actually see him die (ie. an explosion) would bring closure to the series yet leave a slight possibility of Shepard's survival for those fans who want to imagine him riding off into the sunset. It would also leave the door open for Shepard's return in later games should Bioware choose to go that route.

[EffectedByTheMasses]

I meant Legion similar to Wrex in the sense that they will be representatives to their race for ME3. Although it's likely that Legion will be more important. Hopefully.

ANd I'm pretty sure Miri will play a large role in ME3 alongside Liara and Ash/Kaiden, seeing how hard she is to kill off.

[Collider]

fongiel24 wrote...

I'm actually hoping for an ambiguous death for Shepard in ME3. Bioware has said they want to take the Mass Effect universe in a different direction after ME3. A death scene for Shepard where we never actually see him die (ie. an explosion) would bring closure to the series yet leave a slight possibility of Shepard's survival for those fans who want to imagine him riding off into the sunset. It would also leave the door open for Shepard's return in later games should Bioware choose to go that route.

I don't agree with this at all. An ambiguous ending for the end of a (this) trilogy would be horrible. Bioware said that Mass Effect 3 was the end of Shepard's story. Are we seriously going to kill Shepard again? We alrady killed him once, killing him again will yield little effect. Bioware is talented enough to continue the Mass Effect universe without having to have Shepard die or an unsatisfying ambiguous ending.

[kraidy1117]

fongiel24 wrote...

I'm actually hoping for an ambiguous death for Shepard in ME3. Bioware has said they want to take the Mass Effect universe in a different direction after ME3. A death scene for Shepard where we never actually see him die (ie. an explosion) would bring closure to the series yet leave a slight possibility of Shepard's survival for those fans who want to imagine him riding off into the sunset. It would also leave the door open for Shepard's return in later games should Bioware choose to go that route.

Nah there will be other ME games, but not with Shepard. ME3 will be the end of Shepards story. However il ike your death thought, that is similar to GoW3 where

MASSIVE God of War 3 spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!1













After you kill Zeus, Kratos kills him self, but after the credits, where he fell, there is no body and there is a blood trail leading off the cliff, GoW3 was the end of Kratos story but itl eft a huge window.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

One thing that bugs me a little bit concerning how they wrote the 'Ash/Kai refuse to join' scenario, is that whilst I actually thought it was a good reason, it makes me wonder if bioware is truly acknowledging the chance for Shep to state that S/he is with Cerberus in ME3.



Because if Shep is, unless s/he can all of a sudden knock some sense into Ash/Kai that s/he couldn't do in ME2 then by all accounts Ash/Kai should surely still remain adamant that they won't join up with Shep. The thing that makes me laugh regarding how Ash/Kai are treated in a sense to any of their fans that hate Miranda in particular. Is the fact that Miri and Ash/Kai are pretty much the same in character.



That being that they are conditioned to believe in what they fight for. I know not everyone that plays these games has the intelligence to understand what that means, but even when they've been told this information they still rant on like pathetic little children. Regarding the accusations, unless you don't go to the council first, yeah that may seem harsh, but the fact is, it is the same accusation that the council throws at Shepard stating that Shep working with Cerberus could be seen as treason. So it is understandable for Ash/Kaidan to state the same considering they don't know the whole truth.



As for Liara, I think the change there was a good one considering what she'd been through. I think there is more a chance of her joining up with Shep (IF Shep wants her to) no matter the situation than Ash/Kai.



Regarding the hatred, from what I've seen it is the ME2 squadmates as a whole, not just the LIs but of course the LIs probably have people more gunning for them because some of the ME LI fans are so blinded by the stupid notion that Bioware only put the ME2 LIs in there to get them to cheat on their ME LIs.



Anyway a lot of talk of hate in my post, so time for some Miri love.

[kraidy1117]

Collider wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

I'm actually hoping for an ambiguous death for Shepard in ME3. Bioware has said they want to take the Mass Effect universe in a different direction after ME3. A death scene for Shepard where we never actually see him die (ie. an explosion) would bring closure to the series yet leave a slight possibility of Shepard's survival for those fans who want to imagine him riding off into the sunset. It would also leave the door open for Shepard's return in later games should Bioware choose to go that route.

I don't agree with this at all. An ambiguous ending for the end of a (this) trilogy would be horrible. Bioware said that Mass Effect 3 was the end of Shepard's story. Are we seriously going to kill Shepard again? We alrady killed him once, killing him again will yield little effect. Bioware is talented enough to continue the Mass Effect universe without having to have Shepard die or an unsatisfying ambiguous ending.

I say there should be a choice to sacerfice your self. What I mean by this is you are given a choice, you can sacerfice your life, beating the Reapers once and for all, or you could let someone else do it. There needs too be somethingl ike this in ME3, now I don't want it put in there. If there is a sacerfice choice it has to be good.

[kraidy1117]

Von, I like the border for that pic.

[EffectedByTheMasses]

^ haha nice frame.

[EffectedByTheMasses]

I meant the pic

[Collider]

Is it wrong to want a happy ending at the end of the trilogy? I don't want anyone in my squad to die, I lurves all of them. I don't want to be forced to have Shepard die or my squadmates (especially my love interest) die. They should just do it like ME2's suicide mission where the success of the mission depends on how prepared you are going in. That way the majority of people - those who want happy endings will be satisfied but those minority who want darker endings can still get them.

[kraidy1117]

Collider wrote...

Is it wrong to want a happy ending at the end of the trilogy? I don't want anyone in my squad to die, I lurves all of them. I don't want to be forced to have Shepard die or my squadmates (especially my love interest) die. They should just do it like ME2's suicide mission where the success of the mission depends on how prepared you are going in. That way the majority of people - those who want happy endings will be satisfied but those minority who want darker endings can still get them.

No, if anything it should rely on your choices. Casey keeps on saying our chocies will matter and it will be big, well this would be the perfect ttime to have them play there part, during the final battle and if you made a bad choice someone dies. I don't want a pure happy ending. I want it to be happy, but not at the same time.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 19 mai 2010 - 09:08 .

[fongiel24]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

That being that they are conditioned to believe in what they fight for. I know not everyone that plays these games has the intelligence to understand what that means, but even when they've been told this information they still rant on like pathetic little children. Regarding the accusations, unless you don't go to the council first, yeah that may seem harsh, but the fact is, it is the same accusation that the council throws at Shepard stating that Shep working with Cerberus could be seen as treason. So it is understandable for Ash/Kaidan to state the same considering they don't know the whole truth.

The difference between the Council accusing Shepard of treason and Ashley/Kaidan doing it is that Ashley and Kaidan are supposed to be Shepard's friends/LI. Being accused of treason by the Council is to be expected. Being accused of treason by close friends without being given a chance to show your reasons for working with Cerberus is cold. I wouldn't expect Ashley/Kaidan to join Shepard on Horizon. I wouldn't even expect them to happily accept Shepard working with Cerberus. However, I would expect them to give Shepard some benefit of the doubt, considering all that they've been through together.

[EffectedByTheMasses]

That makes sense, you have to deserve a happy ending to get one. Seems like a Bioware type of trick. Nonetheless, I don't think it would make sense if the game would actually get more difficult due to less squadmates/allies if you make bad choices, because that means that most likely Renegade players will have the short end of the stick, unless keeping the collector base provides some immensely major buff.

[EffectedByTheMasses]

ugh Im always off by one comment >>