43796 réponses à ce sujet

[kraidy1117]

Hmm this was a interesting morning, we get a troll, we talk about issues and TIM's betrayal, not bad to wake up too.

[Nightwriter]

jtav wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Also jtav,  I don't remember Miranda doubting TIM with his trickery with the Collector ship, when does that happen?

She gets very flustered when it's suggested he set the squad up. She denies it, but she doesn't soubd certain at all.

I am really going to need to take another look at that. I don't even remember Miranda making a comment after that mission. I think I recall Jacob saying "So he did have a reason" or something.

And yeah, Jack seems to judge Miranda right away. Based on nothing but appearances, apparently.

[jlb524]

jtav wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Also jtav,  I don't remember Miranda doubting TIM with his trickery with the Collector ship, when does that happen?

She gets very flustered when it's suggested he set the squad up. She denies it, but she doesn't soubd certain at all.

This is true...I just saw this on my last run through.

[kraidy1117]

Nightwriter wrote...

jtav wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Also jtav,  I don't remember Miranda doubting TIM with his trickery with the Collector ship, when does that happen?

She gets very flustered when it's suggested he set the squad up. She denies it, but she doesn't soubd certain at all.

I am really going to need to take another look at that. I don't even remember Miranda making a comment after that mission. I think I recall Jacob saying "So he did have a reason" or something.

And yeah, Jack seems to judge Miranda right away. Based on nothing but appearances, apparently.

"Never jduge a book by it's ocver" Miri does not endorse what happen there or anything like that. I brought her to Pragia and when she said they kept children here, you could tell my her voice she was horrifed on what happen. She was not part of that project nor does she endorse it. Jack hated on her because she works for Cerberus.

[Ieldra]

jlb524 wrote...

I do have a question for you all....do you see Miranda as the staunch 'loyalist' or 'Cerberus fan-girl' even before the Collector base incident (when she quits Cerberus) or do you think she was questioning the organization even before that, maybe even before Shepard's resurrection?

I know she tries to justify Cerberus to Shepard, but this could be seen as also an attempt to convince herself yet again that Cerberus is justified in its actions.

I think she believes in Cerberus' agenda as it was presented to her, for that reason defends its methods more than she would otherwise, and refuses to believe in its atrocities unless facing incontrovertible proof. I do think she questions some of Cerberus' methods in her mind sometimes, but she also thinks outsiders with little insight into the organization do not have the right to judge them. 

In other words, she is as much of a loyalist as a relatively clear-thinking person can ever be of anything, but she is no blind follower of the party line. She does have a problem with selective perception, though. It may be she's tried to convince herself as well as Shepard, exactly because Cerberus' methods raise questions she can't avoid asking.

[KendallX23]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

jtav wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Also jtav,  I don't remember Miranda doubting TIM with his trickery with the Collector ship, when does that happen?

She gets very flustered when it's suggested he set the squad up. She denies it, but she doesn't soubd certain at all.

I am really going to need to take another look at that. I don't even remember Miranda making a comment after that mission. I think I recall Jacob saying "So he did have a reason" or something.

And yeah, Jack seems to judge Miranda right away. Based on nothing but appearances, apparently.

"Never jduge a book by it's ocver" Miri does not endorse what happen there or anything like that. I brought her to Pragia and when she said they kept children here, you could tell my her voice she was horrifed on what happen. She was not part of that project nor does she endorse it. Jack hated on her because she works for Cerberus.

given what Cerberus done to her it is uderstandable...Miranda didn't exaclty care much for the situation either

[kraidy1117]

KendallX23 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

jtav wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Also jtav,  I don't remember Miranda doubting TIM with his trickery with the Collector ship, when does that happen?

She gets very flustered when it's suggested he set the squad up. She denies it, but she doesn't soubd certain at all.

I am really going to need to take another look at that. I don't even remember Miranda making a comment after that mission. I think I recall Jacob saying "So he did have a reason" or something.

And yeah, Jack seems to judge Miranda right away. Based on nothing but appearances, apparently.

"Never jduge a book by it's ocver" Miri does not endorse what happen there or anything like that. I brought her to Pragia and when she said they kept children here, you could tell my her voice she was horrifed on what happen. She was not part of that project nor does she endorse it. Jack hated on her because she works for Cerberus.

given what Cerberus done to her it is uderstandable...Miranda didn't exaclty care much for the situation either

Why should Miri care? I like Jack but you have to look at miri's oint of view. Jack is a threat to veryone on the ship. She is a unstable, violent crminal who hates Cerberus. My main Shepard did not want her on the ship because of fear, I really wished Bioware would hve gave us a option to either leave her or take hr abord, really once you get Samara you don't need Jack anymore, ya you miss out on her personal mission and a biotic boost upgrade, but I am not looking at metegaming, I am looking at it if I was really there.

[VampireCommando]

I belive jack simply pre-jugdes Miri because all she's known of them if for what they did to her, jacks natural respone to anyone from cerberus is gonna be F**K you!! but like you guys have said, Miri is obviously horrified by what happening on pragia.

[KendallX23]

i prefer a dangerous angry biotic then a weird blue lady with a code that could get me killed for who knows what...
didn't say Miranda should care..was just telling why Jack dislikes Miranda so much...one she is Cerberus..two she acts like Jack is a mistake...but from Miranda point of view i am pretty sure she didn't like it much(Peragia stuff)..she just dosen't show it that much

Modifié par KendallX23, 26 mai 2010 - 05:02 .

[Valmy]

KendallX23 wrote...
given what Cerberus done to her it is uderstandable...Miranda didn't exaclty care much for the situation either

Not sure what you are getting at.  She certainly was appalled by what the 'rogue' Cerberus group did as well.  I guess that is what you mean?

Modifié par Valmy, 26 mai 2010 - 05:19 .

[Valmy]

KendallX23 wrote...

i prefer a dangerous angry biotic then a weird blue lady with a code that could get me killed for who knows what...
didn't say Miranda should care..was just telling why Jack dislikes Miranda so much...one she is Cerberus..two she acts like Jack is a mistake...but from Miranda point of view i am pretty sure she didn't like it much(Peragia stuff)..she just dosen't show it that much

Of course it is a mistake to let a rogue element do evil crap with narcotics and train children to be biotic killers.  Duh.

I mean assuming that group really was rogue.  And she does show it.  She says it over and over again.

Modifié par Valmy, 26 mai 2010 - 05:18 .

[kraidy1117]

Valmy wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...
given what Cerberus done to her it is uderstandable...Miranda didn't exaclty care much for the situation either

Not sure what you are getting at.  She certainly was appalled by what the 'rogue' Cerberus group did as well.

We know Pargia went rogue, we know some projects do go rogue, just like at the Ascension project. That went completely rogue not only hurting Cerberus, but also the Quarians. I beleive Paria went rogue, however what still went on there was disgusting.

[KendallX23]

Valmy wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

i prefer a dangerous angry biotic then a weird blue lady with a code that could get me killed for who knows what...
didn't say Miranda should care..was just telling why Jack dislikes Miranda so much...one she is Cerberus..two she acts like Jack is a mistake...but from Miranda point of view i am pretty sure she didn't like it much(Peragia stuff)..she just dosen't show it that much

Of course it is a mistake to let a rogue element do evil crap with narcotics and train children to be biotic killers.  Duh.

I mean assuming that group really was rogue.  And she does show it.  She says it over and over again.

even if it wasn't rogue..Miranda sure didn't look like she knew

[Valmy]

KendallX23 wrote...
even if it wasn't rogue..Miranda sure didn't look like she knew

She was pretty sure it was rogue and the evidence you find seems to confirm that view....hence why what happened to Jack was a mistake.  To her Cerberus never intended for that to happen.

I am not so sure.  What happened is certainly not out of line with what the Illusive Man would be in favor of: testing the limits of human biotics.  Even if it did go rogue I fail to see what could go right with apprehending children and training them to be biotics illegally.

[Valmy]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Valmy wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...
given what Cerberus done to her it is uderstandable...Miranda didn't exaclty care much for the situation either

Not sure what you are getting at.  She certainly was appalled by what the 'rogue' Cerberus group did as well.

We know Pargia went rogue, we know some projects do go rogue, just like at the Ascension project. That went completely rogue not only hurting Cerberus, but also the Quarians. I beleive Paria went rogue, however what still went on there was disgusting.

Well it appeared to go rogue...but the important thing I guess for this discussion is Miranda thought it did.

[jtav]

I ran across a bit of praise for us that we discuss Miranda independent of her romance more than some threads. Do you think that's true? I know I make a conscious decision not to assume a Shepard romance. Partly because I find that romance unsatisfying in some ways.

[kraidy1117]

Not all opertives know what happens in other cells. Miri while is a high ranking opertive does not know everything, and the Project zero happened when she was most likely getting started in Cerberus.

[KendallX23]

Valmy wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...
even if it wasn't rogue..Miranda sure didn't look like she knew

She was pretty sure it was rogue and the evidence you find seems to confirm that view....hence why what happened to Jack was a mistake.  To her Cerberus never intended for that to happen.

I am not so sure.  What happened is certainly not out of line with what the Illusive Man would be in favor of: testing the limits of human biotics.  Even if it did go rogue I fail to see what could go right with apprehending children and training them to be biotics illegally.

how about an army of biotics..all human...
   As a Jack fan it's Miranda's afirmation that Jack is a mistake that upsets me...Jack is a victim not a test subject...a mistake..but i agree that Jack is wrong in wanting Miranda to take responsability as if she was Cerberus

[kraidy1117]

jtav wrote...

I ran across a bit of praise for us that we discuss Miranda independent of her romance more than some threads. Do you think that's true? I know I make a conscious decision not to assume a Shepard romance. Partly because I find that romance unsatisfying in some ways.

Ya, and Jib is right. I noticed that we talk alot about Cerberus, Miri and her views. We rarley talk about her romance that much and if we do it's not "I love Miri" "I love DAT ASS!" It's more on what we liked about it, what could have been btter and what we want in ME3.

[Andaius20]

Hey folks how's it going?

[kraidy1117]

KendallX23 wrote...

Valmy wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...
even if it wasn't rogue..Miranda sure didn't look like she knew

She was pretty sure it was rogue and the evidence you find seems to confirm that view....hence why what happened to Jack was a mistake.  To her Cerberus never intended for that to happen.

I am not so sure.  What happened is certainly not out of line with what the Illusive Man would be in favor of: testing the limits of human biotics.  Even if it did go rogue I fail to see what could go right with apprehending children and training them to be biotics illegally.

how about an army of biotics..all human...
   As a Jack fan it's Miranda's afirmation that Jack is a mistake that upsets me...Jack is a victim not a test subject...a mistake..but i agree that Jack is wrong in wanting Miranda to take responsability as if she was Cerberus

Jack was a mistake, what happen to her should never have happened, Miri did not say it nicely tho, she said it with venom and well Jack deserved it IMHO. Jack came up to her office ready to start sh*t.

[VampireCommando]

kraidy1117 wrote...

jtav wrote...

I ran across a bit of praise for us that we discuss Miranda independent of her romance more than some threads. Do you think that's true? I know I make a conscious decision not to assume a Shepard romance. Partly because I find that romance unsatisfying in some ways.

Ya, and Jib is right. I noticed that we talk alot about Cerberus, Miri and her views. We rarley talk about her romance that much and if we do it's not "I love Miri" "I love DAT ASS!" It's more on what we liked about it, what could have been btter and what we want in ME3.

Ahh Kraidy you speak the truth once again

[KendallX23]

who knows what Jack wanted from Miranda

[kraidy1117]

KendallX23 wrote...

who knows what Jack wanted from Miranda

Did you really think Jack went up to Miri's office from her hidey hole, down on lvl 4 of the ship just to say hello to Miri? No Jack wanted to stir things up and wanted an aplogy from Miri. Miri refused, and this started the argument. If Shepard did not stop the fight, Jack would have killed Miri, and if that would have happened I would have shot Jack in th head.

[Valmy]

KendallX23 wrote...
how about an army of biotics..all human...
   As a Jack fan it's Miranda's afirmation that Jack is a mistake that upsets me...Jack is a victim not a test subject...a mistake..but i agree that Jack is wrong in wanting Miranda to take responsability as if she was Cerberus

Yep that is exactly what The Illusive Man wants, a new breed of biotic human super soldier.

Miranda is not very tactful and is very blunt in what she says.  I think she meant the whole project, what happened to Jack, was a mistake.  But it hardly matters, both women are hardly friends of each other.