43796 réponses à ce sujet

[TheSixthghoul]

Here is a question that hasn't been asked in this way. Does anyone feel cheated playing paragon or renegade with Miranda as a Love Interest when it comes to the base? I mean, if you play mostly renegade its all good, get to the collector after that Miranda pulls a 180 to paragon. let's say you play paragon, it doesn't work with Miranda because she's too renegade, you settle for less everyone else. Miranda shows no sign of changing, not even the reaper iff changes her views. You hit the collector and Miranda pulls a one 180, now shes a paragon over something so trivia.

[Shadedclan]

Sixth Goul wrote...

Here is a question that hasn't been asked in this way. Does anyone feel cheated playing paragon or renegade with Miranda as a Love Interest when it comes to the base? I mean, if you play mostly renegade its all good, get to the collector after that Miranda pulls a 180 to paragon. let's say you play paragon, it doesn't work with Miranda because she's too renegade, you settle for less everyone else. Miranda shows no sign of changing, not even the reaper iff changes her views. You hit the collector and Miranda pulls a one 180, now shes a paragon over something so trivia.

What too renegade? Playing paragon on the base gets her to change loyalty to Shepard.

[mass_zotz]

Hey I thought you guys might wanna vote on this one. http://social.biowar...965/polls/6161/

Modifié par mass_zotz, 28 mai 2010 - 05:51 .

[Ieldra]

mass_zotz wrote...
Hey I thought you guys might wanna vote on this one. http://social.biowar...965/polls/6161/

No I don't. Why would I want to vote on a poll where you very much notice it's made by someone who doesn't like Miranda?

@all:
I propose we ignore this poll.

[mass_zotz]

Ieldra2 wrote...

mass_zotz wrote...
Hey I thought you guys might wanna vote on this one. http://social.biowar...965/polls/6161/

No I don't. Why would I want to vote on a poll where you very much notice it's made by someone who doesn't like Miranda?

@all:
I propose we ignore this poll.

Could be worse, that person could be hater. Plus I just posted this because it's about Miri.

Modifié par mass_zotz, 28 mai 2010 - 06:05 .

[Shadedclan]

mass_zotz wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

mass_zotz wrote...
Hey I thought you guys might wanna vote on this one. http://social.biowar...965/polls/6161/

No I don't. Why would I want to vote on a poll where you very much notice it's made by someone who doesn't like Miranda?

@all:
I propose we ignore this poll.

Could be worse, that person could be hater. Plus I just posted this because it's about Miri.

Yep. why would any of us vote on this?

[kraidy1117]

aww I missed the 1700 hallmark, dam ban and Galaxy 2

[kraidy1117]

Ieldra2 wrote...

mass_zotz wrote...
Hey I thought you guys might wanna vote on this one. http://social.biowar...965/polls/6161/

No I don't. Why would I want to vote on a poll where you very much notice it's made by someone who doesn't like Miranda?

@all:
I propose we ignore this poll.

Is it just some moron trying to be witty?

[Ieldra]

Sixth Goul wrote...
Here is a question that hasn't been asked in this way. Does anyone feel cheated playing paragon or renegade with Miranda as a Love Interest when it comes to the base? I mean, if you play mostly renegade its all good, get to the collector after that Miranda pulls a 180 to paragon. let's say you play paragon, it doesn't work with Miranda because she's too renegade, you settle for less everyone else. Miranda shows no sign of changing, not even the reaper iff changes her views. You hit the collector and Miranda pulls a one 180, now shes a paragon over something so trivia.

I don't quite understand what exactly you want to say with that. Is it that you think Miranda's change is too sudden? In that case, I agree completely, but for me it's even more than that: I consider it out of character for Miranda to argue for the base's destruction. Even if you don't agree with that, at the very least the way she argues for the base's destruction (basically an emotional argument without any real substance) is very much out of character.

For these reasons, I dismiss her behaviour at that point as a game developer's artifact made only for balancing pro and contra opinions in the team, and as a last-minute effort to make a continuing romance between Paragon Shepard and Miranda believable. I would have preferred a scenario like this:

How the Collector base decisions and Miranda's character development should have been:
Throughout the game, Miranda develops more and more doubts about TIM, first on Pragia, then on the Collector ship (we get these), and then on the derelict Reaper (we don't get that). At the Collector base, she'd argue that this affects all of humanity and TIM shouldn't have exclusive access to the base, and we should give the location and a copy of the Reaper IFF to the Alliance and the Council. But it turns out there's a risk that TIM will get here first anyway and take it all for himself before the other factions can show up, because he's prepared and has advance knowledge through the SR2's distance-independent quantum communicator. Shepard then faces a decision with three alternatives: (1) Give the base to TIM with the result we get in ME2 if you do, (2) try to give it to the Alliance/Council, followed by Miranda's resignation, with the result that TIM gets it all anyway and Shepard and Miranda have antagonized him for no real gain, and (3) destroy the base, with TIM getting nothing and Miranda not resigning because she doesn't believe in that decision.
Note that the most desirable decision (I think it's almost consensus that would be (2)) has bad consequences  regarding the future war against the Reapers, but it keeps everyone in character and is a believable decision for a Paragon Shepard and even imaginable for a Renegade. Decision (3) would be the most difficult for a Miranda/Shepard romance.  

The real problem here is that the game limits us to two alternatives. I can very much see Miranda arguing for not giving the base to TIM exclusively, but I can't see her arguing "it's best destroyed" even if the only alternative is giving it to TIM. I can follow others' arguments why it should be to some point, even if I don't agree with them, but it's definitely not something Miranda would say.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 mai 2010 - 08:06 .

[kraidy1117]

IU don't consider what squadmates say there to be right at all, it's OOC for alot of hcaracters, I listen to the characters on the normandy when them ission is done and what Miri says is not that out of character, same as all the other characters.



I still think she should have argued with TIM, how she acted was OOC, if she would have said I don't want to put Oriana in danger of this machine then I would be fine, but her "It feels like a betrayal." was weak.

[Ieldra]

kraidy1117 wrote...
IU don't consider what squadmates say there to be right at all, it's OOC for alot of hcaracters, I listen to the characters on the normandy when them ission is done and what Miri says is not that out of character, same as all the other characters.

What does Miranda say afterwards if you destroy the base?

I still think she should have argued with TIM, how she acted was OOC, if she would have said I don't want to put Oriana in danger of this machine then I would be fine, but her "It feels like a betrayal." was weak.

No, that would also be weak. Miranda would not let her emotions determine her decision to such a degree. She believes she works for all of humanity. The question she'd have to answer for herself is: would TIM use the base the same way as the Collectors did, or would he only use it to extract knowledge and technology to use against the Reapers. The problem I have here is that the way the human Reaper is made is implausible in the first place. If it was plausible, would TIM attempt to create something similar to a human Reaper to use it against the other Reapers, and create it the same way the Collectors did? If you think that scenario plausible, then the argument for destroying the base becomes not only plausible, but compelling. But even if Miranda loses her trust in TIM, I don't think she'd believe him capable of that.

[kraidy1117]

Ieldra2 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
IU don't consider what squadmates say there to be right at all, it's OOC for alot of hcaracters, I listen to the characters on the normandy when them ission is done and what Miri says is not that out of character, same as all the other characters.

What does Miranda say afterwards if you destroy the base?

I still think she should have argued with TIM, how she acted was OOC, if she would have said I don't want to put Oriana in danger of this machine then I would be fine, but her "It feels like a betrayal." was weak.

No, that would also be weak. Miranda would not let her emotions determine her decision to such a degree. She believes she works for all of humanity. The question she'd have to answer for herself is: would TIM use the base the same way as the Collectors did, or would he only use it to extract knowledge and technology to use against the Reapers. The problem I have here is that the way the human Reaper is made is implausible in the first place. If it was plausible, would TIM attempt to create something similar to a human Reaper to use it against the other Reapers, and create it the same way the Collectors did? If you think that scenario plausible, then the argument for destroying the base becomes not only plausible, but compelling. But even if Miranda loses her trust in TIM, I don't think she'd believe him capable of that.

"Taking down the base was the right choice Shepard, TIM might not agree but it had to be done."  It fits more in character because she does not go into emotions at all, and I disagree.

I would have prefered an argument with Miri and TIM. Do you really think Miri would let TIM keep the base if his real intentions where to make a Reaper? That he would use humans? What would happen if it's Oriana? This is why they should have had it, Miri does get emoitnal if it's about her sister, TIm should have challanged Miri, making her resign more fulfilling.

[Ieldra]

kraidy1117 wrote...
Do you really think Miri would let TIM keep the base if his real intentions where to make a Reaper? That he would use humans?

No, of course not. That I find this scenario implausible lies at the base of my arguments. If Miranda considers it more plausible, she should say so. I guess my Shepards be would inclined to believe her, since she knows TIM better.

And I disagree about Oriana. Too many stories make everything personal. In a conflict between human factions, that often makes sense because it adds to the emotional tension, even though it's overused - I'm getting sick of every epic story having a personal angle. Anyway, it's completely misplaced in a scenario where every personal matter is affected by extension. The fate of your species, the fate of all intelligent life as we know it in the galaxy, is bigger than the fate of one person, even emotionally. Thus, the personal angle does not add anything to the dramatic tension. Instead, it makes the characters appear selfish.

[netwitbrian]

I think she finally comes to the conclusion with all that she has seen and been thru with Sheppard that he is right and he does make good decisions. Then she sees how TIM turns on Sheppard and realizes that could happen to her. With her knowing about other Cerberus mistakes that she and others had to fix in the past and the ones that Sheppard had to fix or clean up, she may have been think that it would be just another mess she and Sheppard would have to clean up. But the game is only so long, maybe this was the thought (Dev's) but hard to show in game or make room on the game disc. Lets hope that it will be address maybe in future dlc's leading up to ME3.

[Andaius20]

Hmmm do you do it? (click to interupt)

[Andaius20]

[Prudii Aden]

Kabraxal wrote...

For those who might still care... chapter 13 is up for At the Edge of Heaven.

Interesting chapter - I was wondering whether your muse had deserted you or not. The Miranda/Kelly fic you wrote has potential as well.

[Andaius20]

[Kabraxal]

Prudii Aden wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

For those who might still care... chapter 13 is up for At the Edge of Heaven.

Interesting chapter - I was wondering whether your muse had deserted you or not. The Miranda/Kelly fic you wrote has potential as well.

I was wondering the same thing... it finally started speaking to me today

As for the other.... well... um... uh.... yes 

[Shadedclan]

Andaius20 wrote...

Is there a reason why Shepard's red stripe on his armor is on his left side in the first pic?

Modifié par Shadedclan, 28 mai 2010 - 10:12 .

[VampireCommando]

Hry guys i'm back from work, did i miss anything of intreast?

[Ieldra]

VampireCommando wrote...
Hry guys i'm back from work, did i miss anything of intreast?

Is it too much to ask you to read one and a half thread pages?
Yet another debate about the Collector base and Miranda's behavior there. And of course, Andaius20's nice screenshots. But you noticed these, didn't you?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 mai 2010 - 10:20 .

[VampireCommando]

Ieldra2 wrote...

VampireCommando wrote...
Hry guys i'm back from work, did i miss anything of intreast?

Is it too much to ask you to read one and a half thread pages?
Yet another debate about the Collector base and Miranda's behavior there. And of course, Andaius20's nice screenshots. But you noticed these, didn't you?

The screen shots yeah i did, there awesome as always, i would of read the last few pages but it was like

*Goes back a few pages to catch up, HIT BY WALL OF TEXT!*

so i thought i'd ask as one of you would sum it all up quite niclely in a short little blurb, like you just did Ieldra, which i'm greatful for, and is it about how she pulls out the 180 on the paragon path by any chance?

[Jebel Krong]

hmph. i'm still waiting to get going on playing me2 on PC and doing my own screenshots... just don't have the time :-(

[TheSixthghoul]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sixth Goul wrote...
Here is a question that hasn't been asked in this way. Does anyone feel cheated playing paragon or renegade with Miranda as a Love Interest when it comes to the base? I mean, if you play mostly renegade its all good, get to the collector after that Miranda pulls a 180 to paragon. let's say you play paragon, it doesn't work with Miranda because she's too renegade, you settle for less everyone else. Miranda shows no sign of changing, not even the reaper iff changes her views. You hit the collector and Miranda pulls a one 180, now shes a paragon over something so trivia.

I don't quite understand what exactly you want to say with that. Is it that you think Miranda's change is too sudden? In that case, I agree completely, but for me it's even more than that: I consider it out of character for Miranda to argue for the base's destruction. Even if you don't agree with that, at the very least the way she argues for the base's destruction (basically an emotional argument without any real substance) is very much out of character.


The real problem here is that the game limits us to two alternatives. I can very much see Miranda arguing for not giving the base to TIM exclusively, but I can't see her arguing "it's best destroyed" even if the only alternative is giving it to TIM. I can follow others' arguments why it should be to some point, even if I don't agree with them, but it's definitely not something Miranda would say.

You didn't have to go that deep into detail, I only renegade. Anyways,I blame it on D.R.S Dark Ritual Stumble, it rears it's ugly head in Mass Effect 2. This is what happens, if you don't have time, because your working on two games once.