43796 réponses à ce sujet

[Jebel Krong]

Sixth Goul wrote...

You didn't have to go that deep into detail, I only renegade. Anyways,I blame it on D.R.S Dark Ritual Stumble, it rears it's ugly head in Mass Effect 2. This is what happens, if you don't have time, because your working on two games once.

it's not that - it's simply painting yourself into a box and then coming up with arbitrary reasons to magically get you out - they inevitably don't fit.

edit: they would have been better off making the destruction of the station a mandatory story-point (which it almost looks like they were going to with the way the cinematics are done), whatever your alignment.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 28 mai 2010 - 11:18 .

[Nightwriter]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Versatility, yes. In her own words: "I'm very good at just about anything I choose to do" For that reason, it's not easy to get to what connects all her various skills. And to define where her people skills end. I'm still wracking my brain about why leadership escapes her. Probably it has something to do with her emotional detachment.

This is an interesting thing, actually.

I believe what Miranda lacks - what she meant she lacks - is the ability to inspire. Which is very different than leading.

Her leadership isn't in question really, she's been in command for quite a while now and she knows how to do it. But I don't think she grasps how to motivate people on an emotional level, because she is, as you said, so emotionally detached herself.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 28 mai 2010 - 11:34 .

[jtav]

Morning. Anyone want a fic excerpt? You know, just to prove I am working.

[Shadedclan]

Nightwriter wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Versatility, yes. In her own words: "I'm very good at just about anything I choose to do" For that reason, it's not easy to get to what connects all her various skills. And to define where her people skills end. I'm still wracking my brain about why leadership escapes her. Probably it has something to do with her emotional detachment.

This is an interesting thing, actually.

I believe what Miranda lacks - what she meant she lacks - is the ability to inspire. Which is very different than leading.

Her leadership isn't in question really, she's been in command for quite a while now and she knows how to do it. But I don't think she grasps how to motivate people on an emotional level, because she is, as you said, so emotionally detached herself.

She doesn't have what Shepard has. "That fire that makes someone willing to follow you into hell itself"

[VampireCommando]

Shadedclan wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Versatility, yes. In her own words: "I'm very good at just about anything I choose to do" For that reason, it's not easy to get to what connects all her various skills. And to define where her people skills end. I'm still wracking my brain about why leadership escapes her. Probably it has something to do with her emotional detachment.

This is an interesting thing, actually.

I believe what Miranda lacks - what she meant she lacks - is the ability to inspire. Which is very different than leading.

Her leadership isn't in question really, she's been in command for quite a while now and she knows how to do it. But I don't think she grasps how to motivate people on an emotional level, because she is, as you said, so emotionally detached herself.

She doesn't have what Shepard has. "That fire that makes someone willing to follow you into hell itself"

Because Shepard has that ability, he knows how to unspire emotional inspiration into his squad where has Miri does not.

[SgtPotato]

jtav wrote...

Morning. Anyone want a fic excerpt? You know, just to prove I am working.

Yes, please.

[Andaius20]

[quote]Shadedclan wrote...

[quote]Andaius20 wrote...

*snip*
Is there a reason why Shepard's red stripe on his armor is on his left side in the first pic?

[/quote]


I have a "blood stripe" on both sides. 

[Andaius20]

So do you guys like the pics? What some more?

[jtav]

Okay, then.

With any luck, we'll be able to bring your friend back exactly as he was. And then we can put him to work fighting the Reapers and saving the galaxy. He'll be thrilled, I'm sure. Bloody hero, that one."

Liara felt her newfound good mood began to evaporate. "That's not all he was."

Miranda blinked. "Pardon?"

"He was more than just the man who stopped Saren. He was more than that. And he and I were more than friends. Does Cerberus care about any of that or only what he can do?"

Miranda flushed slightly. "I see. No wonder you were so determined to find his body." She cleared her throat. "And of course we care. Every aspect of his personality contributed to making Commander Shepard the man he was. Once reconstruction is complete, we'll run an extensive battery of psychological tests to ensure that his mind and morals are as they were. If everything goes according to plan, you won't be able to tell a difference in your boyfriend."

Liara shook her head. Not good enough. Peter couldn't be summed up by the results of a test. There were always shades of meaning, nuances and no question could capture. It was the difference between looking at a survey of a dig site and unearthing it for yourself. That kind of secondhand knowledge might be good enough to recreate a soldier capable of fighting the Reapers, but it couldn't bring Peter back. But how to keep Cerberus from reducing him to a set of data points.

The answer came to her in a flash. She knew Peter. They'd fought side by side for months. She had seen into his mind when examining the vision from the beacon. She had seen into his soul when they'd mated. Peter liked chess, even though he was abysmal at it. He sang in the shower. He'd had a dog when he was seven. A personality test wouldn't capture that. Cereberus might not even care, no matter what Miranda said. But maybe there was a way to make her care, to force her to see him as a person. The only question was: was Liara willing to share such intimate memories with a stranger? A friendly and sympathetic stranger, but still a stranger.

Sometimes sacrifices must be made. "What if I could offer you something better than a test?" She tried to keep her voice light and prayed that the quaver was simply her imagination.

Miranda crossed her arms again, and her brow furrowed. "Such as?"

Liara took a deep breath. "My people can touch minds with others to exchange information. To exchange memories. "I've touched Peter's mind, and I can touch yours. I can give you every single memory I have of him. I assure you I have many memories."

For a long moment, there was only silence. Miranda turned to look out the glass where a technician was replacing a bit of tubing. In profile, her face was oddly blank. If she was surprised or angry, she gave no sign of it. They might have been chatting about the weather. "Touching minds? That sounds suspiciously similar to asari mating practices," she said lightly.

"What?" It took a moment for what Miranda said to register. When it did, warmth spread over her face. Miranda thought... had implied... oh, Goddess! "I—no! It's not the same thing at all. What I'm proposing is not nearly so intimate. Just a simple transfer of information."

This is going to go about as well as you'd expect.

[VampireCommando]

Andaius20 wrote...

So do you guys like the pics? What some more?

More awesome pics of Miri, how can anyone say no?

[Andaius20]

Some one is going to get it....



I was right!

[Shadedclan]

VampireCommando wrote...

Shadedclan wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Versatility, yes. In her own words: "I'm very good at just about anything I choose to do" For that reason, it's not easy to get to what connects all her various skills. And to define where her people skills end. I'm still wracking my brain about why leadership escapes her. Probably it has something to do with her emotional detachment.

This is an interesting thing, actually.

I believe what Miranda lacks - what she meant she lacks - is the ability to inspire. Which is very different than leading.

Her leadership isn't in question really, she's been in command for quite a while now and she knows how to do it. But I don't think she grasps how to motivate people on an emotional level, because she is, as you said, so emotionally detached herself.

She doesn't have what Shepard has. "That fire that makes someone willing to follow you into hell itself"

Because Shepard has that ability, he knows how to unspire emotional inspiration into his squad where has Miri does not.

Exactly!

[Andaius20]

Some D'awww fro you folks.

[Nightwriter]

jtav wrote...

With any luck, we'll be able to bring your friend back exactly as he was. And then we can put him to work fighting the Reapers and saving the galaxy. He'll be thrilled, I'm sure. Bloody hero, that one."

Liara felt her newfound good mood began to evaporate. "That's not all he was."

Miranda blinked. "Pardon?"

"He was more than just the man who stopped Saren. He was more than that. And he and I were more than friends. Does Cerberus care about any of that or only what he can do?"

Miranda flushed slightly. "I see. No wonder you were so determined to find his body." She cleared her throat. "And of course we care. Every aspect of his personality contributed to making Commander Shepard the man he was. Once reconstruction is complete, we'll run an extensive battery of psychological tests to ensure that his mind and morals are as they were. If everything goes according to plan, you won't be able to tell a difference in your boyfriend."

Liara shook her head. Not good enough. Peter couldn't be summed up by the results of a test. There were always shades of meaning, nuances and no question could capture. It was the difference between looking at a survey of a dig site and unearthing it for yourself. That kind of secondhand knowledge might be good enough to recreate a soldier capable of fighting the Reapers, but it couldn't bring Peter back. But how to keep Cerberus from reducing him to a set of data points.

The answer came to her in a flash. She knew Peter. They'd fought side by side for months. She had seen into his mind when examining the vision from the beacon. She had seen into his soul when they'd mated. Peter liked chess, even though he was abysmal at it. He sang in the shower. He'd had a dog when he was seven. A personality test wouldn't capture that. Cereberus might not even care, no matter what Miranda said. But maybe there was a way to make her care, to force her to see him as a person. The only question was: was Liara willing to share such intimate memories with a stranger? A friendly and sympathetic stranger, but still a stranger.

Sometimes sacrifices must be made. "What if I could offer you something better than a test?" She tried to keep her voice light and prayed that the quaver was simply her imagination.

Miranda crossed her arms again, and her brow furrowed. "Such as?"

Liara took a deep breath. "My people can touch minds with others to exchange information. To exchange memories. "I've touched Peter's mind, and I can touch yours. I can give you every single memory I have of him. I assure you I have many memories."

For a long moment, there was only silence. Miranda turned to look out the glass where a technician was replacing a bit of tubing. In profile, her face was oddly blank. If she was surprised or angry, she gave no sign of it. They might have been chatting about the weather. "Touching minds? That sounds suspiciously similar to asari mating practices," she said lightly.

"What?" It took a moment for what Miranda said to register. When it did, warmth spread over her face. Miranda thought... had implied... oh, Goddess! "I—no! It's not the same thing at all. What I'm proposing is not nearly so intimate. Just a simple transfer of information."

Oh God, if they'd only put something in the game that even hinted at a conversation like this I think I'd have gone to heaven. Bioware why can't you read this. This right here. This.

What the hell are you giving me this for? It's like giving a crack addict a fix, now I'm tweaking on the high and I have to call my sponsor.

Is this one of your Miranda/Liara romance fics?

[jtav]

Sorry Night. *is not sorry* And yes, it is from the Miranda/Liara story. Though we're a very, very long way from actual romance.

[Shadedclan]

I just finished Jacob's loyalty mission and Miranda mentioned keeping old promises to Jacob. Any ideas what was that promise about?

[Valmy]

Shadedclan wrote...

I just finished Jacob's loyalty mission and Miranda mentioned keeping old promises to Jacob. Any ideas what was that promise about?

Helping him find his father.

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...
They would have been better off making the destruction of the station a mandatory story-point (which it almost looks like they were going to with the way the cinematics are done), whatever your alignment.

I would have complained that it's stupid not to study it even more, since the "give it to TIM" alternative wouldn't have been the only alternative.

Why not keep MIranda in-character instead? Why must every single LI push the player into the Paragon choice? That's almost as good a reason not to succumb to Bioware's indoctrination...

@jtav:
Nice story fragment. I'm tuned for more. But no hurry, better not to give too many fragments away. Remember how that went with Rath's and Meg's story?

@Andaius20:
A wall of pictures for a change. I like them. Except your Shepard is wrong. He should look like mine.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 mai 2010 - 01:23 .

[Valmy]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I would have complained that it's stupid not to study it even more, since the "give it to TIM" alternative wouldn't have been the only alternative.

Why not keep MIranda in-character instead? Why must every single LI push the player into the Paragon choice?

Because it is the smart thing to do S-M-R-T

The funniest part is I think they did this in response to people complaining in ME1 one person would encourage you to let the council die and another would encourage you to save them without rhyme or reason as to whether that would make sense for the character.  So they decided that a character would have a point of view based on their character instead...and it seems all the characters would want to destroy the base according to Bioware.

[jtav]

How did it go? I only skimmed that story. And I'm not planning on too many excerpts. Just a show of good faith that I am actually working.

[Ieldra]

Valmy wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I would have complained that it's stupid not to study it even more, since the "give it to TIM" alternative wouldn't have been the only alternative.

Why not keep MIranda in-character instead? Why must every single LI push the player into the Paragon choice?

Because it is the smart thing to do S-M-R-T

No, it is your typical example of Paragon-Stupid (OK, I know we disagree about that). Believe me, I'd like to see Miranda resign from Cerberus in my main maleShep game, just as I saved the Council with him in spite of him being mostly Renegade. I dislike being tied to TIM in ME3. Really. But I can't wrap my mind around the destruction of the base.

The funniest part is I think they did this in response to people complaining in ME1 one person would encourage you to let the council die and another would encourage you to save them without rhyme or reason as to whether that would make sense for the character.  So they decided that a character would have a point of view based on their character instead...and it seems all the characters would want to destroy the base according to Bioware.

Except that at the very least Miranda's argument for destroying the base is out-of-character. IMO, the fact she argues for it at all also is. Anyway, the least they should have done if they absolutely wanted to turn Miranda into what she has never been before in 10 seconds, is make her bring a convincing argument instead of a ridiculous one.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 mai 2010 - 01:39 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
How did it go? I only skimmed that story. And I'm not planning on too many excerpts. Just a show of good faith that I am actually working.

There was this fistfight scene, resulting in Shepard being captured IIRC. I claimed it was stupid for Shepard to charge his enemy and use his fists instead of just shooting him in that situation, and that they'd written it into the story just because "there must be a fistfight" is a trope. They answered that it only appeared so because the fragment was out of context. The context was added later, and made it slightly more palatable, but I still claim they just wanted a fistfight without worrying overmuch about its plausibility.

I am very confident you won't do things like that.
 

[Nightwriter]

jtav wrote...

Sorry Night. *is not sorry* And yes, it is from the Miranda/Liara story. Though we're a very, very long way from actual romance.

Really? Oh well. Should still be very interesting, with your skills.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 28 mai 2010 - 01:50 .

[Collider]

Just for a little more context:

From ME wiki:

Depending on the player's response, certain squad mates will react.
Should the Paragon response be chosen then Garrus, Legion, Zaeed, Grunt
and Mordin will speak in favor of preserving the base, reminding
Shepard that it's just data and that destroying it serves no purpose.
If the Renegade response is chosen then Tali, Thane, Jacob and Jack
while strongly disapprove, reminding Shepard of the sick experiments
while Samara and Miranda will have more neutral responses. If the
Neutral response is chosen then none of your squad will comment.

[Valmy]

Ieldra2 wrote...
No, it is your typical example of Paragon-Stupid (OK, I know we disagree about that). Believe me, I'd like to see Miranda resign from Cerberus in my main maleShep game, just as I saved the Council with him in spite of him being mostly Renegade. I dislike being tied to TIM in ME3. Really. But I can't wrap my mind around the destruction of the base.

Well yes but I was also making a shout-out to Quayle in Baldur's Gate and his quote itself was a shout out ot the Simpsons....which was probably a shout out to some other source I am not familiar with.

Except that at the very least Miranda's argument for destroying the base is out-of-character. IMO, the fact she argues for it at all also is. Anyway, the least they should have done if they absolutely wanted to turn Miranda into what she has never been before in 10 seconds, is make her bring a convincing argument instead of a ridiculous one.

Yes.  That was what made it ironic.  Miranda having this position no matter what was supposed to be correcting a problem where some characters would make non-sensical arguments for letting the council die that seemed totally OOC just because they neede somebody to make that argument.  However, they STILL messed up by having the normally calculating Miranda act out of an intuitive feeling and emotion.