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[kraidy1117]

Ieldra2 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
There is many things that go over biology in the ME series, this is one of them.

You have just posted a rant trigger. I will not resist it.

Sorry kraidy, you just don't "go over" biology. You may influence its processes, but not ignore them. I could tell you something about the speculative procedures you would have to use to make a child's face different from the one programmed in its genes. Genetics alone can't do it, not even in an SF universe. You'd have to influence the growth process. Maybe by pharmaceuticals, by surgical procedures, maybe even by biotics in the ME universe. Well OK, Miranda's father could have done that if the knowledge existed, and we don't know. But conservative as the ME universe is with regard to life sciences, I very much doubt it.

In more general terms, any explanation that just posits something without any evidence going for it is equal to saying "It's magic. Just accept it". That's, for instance, why I am unable to "just accept" inter-species romance. I will not stop ranting about its implausibility until I am given a plausible in-world explanation. I've said this before: an SF universe can go anywhere and be incredibly fantastic in any area of science we know little about - dark matter, dark energy, black holes etc., all that's up for the grabs to explain technological miracles. But when it comes to areas we actually know something about, then you can't just blithely ignore facts. And before you quote advancements in science at me: new theories do not ignore older facts. They incorporate them into a bigger system.

And now we'd better go back to Miranda. Ah yes...Miranda, an expert in the life sciences, does not approve of your line of reasoning:

The thing is that if Bioware wants to do it they can and they will, there is many things that contradict facts in real life that can be seen in ME. I have accperted the fact that Mr.Lawson miht have done some things let that be biotics as you said, Collector tech ect. As I said on this matter we will have to agree to disagree because while yes by the facts you are right, in our world that could not happen but as the ME universe get's more expnaded we see more more stuff that is not poseable, this could be one of them. Even then, what Oriana looks like could be what Miri looked like at her age. I suggest we just stop this debate because it won't go anywhere, it will just keep going in circles with the facts prove it wrong and the Bioware can do what every they want without it being relistic.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 29 mai 2010 - 09:45 .

[Ieldra]

kraidy1117 wrote...
The thing is that if Bioware wants to do it they can and they will....

You've just posted yet another rant trigger. That's about the most stupid justification for anything I've ever heard. "It's fiction, anything is possible. It doesn't need to be plausible, no sir". Grrrrr......***bangs head against wall***

Please stop doing this, or I'll have to post all night!

[TheSixthghoul]

[kraidy1117]

Ieldra2 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
The thing is that if Bioware wants to do it they can and they will....

You've just posted yet another rant trigger. That's about the most stupid justification for anything I've ever heard. "It's fiction, anything is possible. It doesn't need to be plausible, no sir". Grrrrr......***bangs head against wall***

Please stop doing this, or I'll have to post all night!

Why, it's true, there is no law that says Bioware has to be relistic. If they wanted to make a gun that shoots water acid, they can. We are lucky ME and mE2 are as relistic as it is right now, there is going to be things that contradict facts, Star Trek does it, Star Wars does it alot, BSG does it ect. ME is no expection.

[Ieldra]

kraidy1117 wrote...
Why, it's true, there is no law that says Bioware has to be relistic.

Fictional worlds should be internally consistent. Plausible. Fictional universes claiming to be SF universes should be somewhat compatible with science. Not a law, no, but a quality feature. Fictional worlds should be convincing. That's really all there is to it. And where they're not, I complain.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 mai 2010 - 09:57 .

[jtav]

Yes, a good fictional world should be logically consistent. Every stereotype about American scientific education is true in my case, and ME still gives me a headache. This is bad writing. It's still enjoyable, but I can't take the series seriously as SF.



Regarding the implants, I suspect she's L4/L5 or equivalent now. I just take any opportunity I can get to plausibly give a character a disability, especially a character like Miranda that I love to bits.

[kraidy1117]

Ieldra2 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
Why, it's true, there is no law that says Bioware has to be relistic.

Fictional worlds should be internally consistent. Plausible. Fictional universes claiming to be SF universes should be somewhat compatible with science. Not a law, no, but a quality feature. Fictional worlds should be convincing. That's really all there is to it. And where they're not, I complain.

And it is, yes there is somethings like this that make me want to pull my hair out like Miri walking around with a breathing mask but somethings like the technology was very well done and works well in science. The point that Bioware did't go with beam weapons and plasma throwers iswhy i love the ME series alot more then SW and ST because of that.

I always say this, when you are playing a SF game or even watching a a SF movie or reading a SF book, try to forget about the facts, it makes it alot more enjoyable Ieldra. As I said, the thing with Oriana and Miri would not happen in real life, but it is poseable it could happen in the ME universe be that biotics, Collector tech, Prothean tech ect. With that I am going to play Galaxy 2, and just for you Ieldra, Mario walks around space with no helment on

Modifié par kraidy1117, 29 mai 2010 - 10:05 .

[Ieldra]

kraidy1117 wrote...
I always say this, when you are playing a SF game or even watching a a SF movie or reading a SF book, try to forget about the facts, it makes it alot more enjoyable Ieldra.

As I said, I analyze my fictional universes. I can't not do it. Forgetting about a fictional universe's plausibility makes it empty for me. I walk away from it. And an SF universe has higher plausibility standards than, for instance, a fantasy universe.
I do forget it while I'm playing. Mostly. I do not rant in my mind at every single mistake. I read a lot of SF books with little things I don't need to analyze because they're not screaming in my face like some ME aspects. I can live with it. Until someone like you comes along and says I should not care. That really riles me up. What I will not accept, and why I will not cease answering back to you, even if you repeat it a hundred thousand times (so you might just stop), is that it doesn't matter!

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 mai 2010 - 10:14 .

[fongiel24]

The space helmets thing looks ridiculous, but other than that, I don't find the science of ME to be too bad. I'm not saying any of it is possible IRL nor that it's good science, but from a story perspective I don't find it too jarring.



As for beam weapons/plasma throwers vs. rail guns utilizing mass effect fields... they're equally fantastical. I would actually guess that with our current level of technology we are closer to energy-based laser weapons than man-portable rail guns.

[kraidy1117]

Ieldra2 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
I always say this, when you are playing a SF game or even watching a a SF movie or reading a SF book, try to forget about the facts, it makes it alot more enjoyable Ieldra.

As I said, I analyze my fictional universes. I can't not do it. Forgetting about a fictional universe's plausibility makes it empty for me. I walk away from it. And an SF universe has higher plausibility standards than, for instance, a fantasy universe.
I do forget it while I'm playing. Mostly. I do not rant in my mind at every single mistake. I read a lot of SF books with little things I don't need to analyze because they're not screaming in my face like some ME aspects. I can live with it. Until someone like you comes along and says I should not care. That really riles me up. What I will not accept, and why I will not cease answering back to you, even if you repeat it a hundred thousand times (so you might just stop), is that it doesn't matter!

Thats why I said we will have to agree to disagree, we both have diffrent thoughts when it comes to this and it will keep going into circles. I say we get back to Miri


As Jtav was talking about, what implant do you think Miri is using now?

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Regarding the implants, I suspect she's L4/L5 or equivalent now. I just take any opportunity I can get to plausibly give a character a disability, especially a character like Miranda that I love to bits.

I've looked over the implant list again, and anything but an L5 equivalent would make no sense. She's too strong for an L3, and if she had to be retrofitted then it makes more sense to go for the L5 than for the L4. All on the understanding that implants do not influence different abilities differently, but only augment what's already there.
 

[kraidy1117]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Regarding the implants, I suspect she's L4/L5 or equivalent now. I just take any opportunity I can get to plausibly give a character a disability, especially a character like Miranda that I love to bits.

I've looked over the implant list again, and anything but an L5 equivalent would make no sense. She's too strong for an L3, and if she had to be retrofitted then it makes more sense to go for the L5 than for the L4. All on the understanding that implants do not influence different abilities differently, but only augment what's already there.
 

I never knew that, I always thought she might still be a L3 or L4 my self, L5 has never crossed my mind because L5 implants do cause of serous complications.

[kraidy1117]

Maviarab wrote...

Mostly. I do not rant in my mind at every single mistake.

For the most part Ieldra....SF is set in the future...so how can there be mistakes?

Oh and hi everyone...just popping in

Mavi

[Ieldra]

Maviarab wrote...

Mostly. I do not rant in my mind at every single mistake.

For the most part Ieldra....SF is set in the future...so how can there be mistakes?

I really want to stop this topic, but you keep provoking me, damn it. "It's set in the future" does not justify just anything. If you and kraidy don't understand that I'll have to live with it. Let's keep it at that.

[jtav]

Depends on when she was retrofitted. If she was retrofitted between the time the L4 and L5 came out, then it's possible she's an L4. I get the impression the L5s are brand new, so she would have to go under the knife while the Lazarus Project was still ongoing. For that matter, she might still be an L2 and either not suffer side effects or choose not to mention them because it's no one's business as long as she can do her job.

[Ieldra]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Regarding the implants, I suspect she's L4/L5 or equivalent now. I just take any opportunity I can get to plausibly give a character a disability, especially a character like Miranda that I love to bits.

I've looked over the implant list again, and anything but an L5 equivalent would make no sense. She's too strong for an L3, and if she had to be retrofitted then it makes more sense to go for the L5 than for the L4. All on the understanding that implants do not influence different abilities differently, but only augment what's already there.

I never knew that, I always thought she might still be a L3 or L4 my self, L5 has never crossed my mind because L5 implants do cause of serous complications.

The L2 is the one with complications. L3 is its replacement, but weaker. L4 is 15-20% stronger, and a new development for the children of the Ascension program. L5 is the version Adepts normally use, so I suspect it's a little stronger yet.

[kraidy1117]

Guys can't we just drop it now? No one is right in this debate, Ieldra prefers that if it's based on science it should follow the facts, I disagree but we will be running around in circles. It's best to just go back and talk about Miri, she is going to cry soon.





Too late....

[kraidy1117]

Ieldra2 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Regarding the implants, I suspect she's L4/L5 or equivalent now. I just take any opportunity I can get to plausibly give a character a disability, especially a character like Miranda that I love to bits.

I've looked over the implant list again, and anything but an L5 equivalent would make no sense. She's too strong for an L3, and if she had to be retrofitted then it makes more sense to go for the L5 than for the L4. All on the understanding that implants do not influence different abilities differently, but only augment what's already there.

I never knew that, I always thought she might still be a L3 or L4 my self, L5 has never crossed my mind because L5 implants do cause of serous complications.

The L2 is the one with complications. L3 is its replacement, but weaker. L4 is 15-20% stronger, and a new development for the children of the Ascension program. L5 is the version Adepts normally use, so I suspect it's a little stronger yet.

Jack has L5 and she is dying because of it. I forget what it says but her implant info says the implant is detartering(sp) her brain or osmething like that. Thats why I don't think Miri has a L5 implant, I think L4 or L3. I always wonder if there was a L1 implant or if they just started with L2 implants.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 29 mai 2010 - 10:32 .

[Ieldra]

kraidy1117 wrote...
Jack has L5 and she is dying because of it. I forget what it says but her implant info says the implant is detartering(sp) her brain or osmething like that. Thats why I don't think Miri has a L5 implant, I think L4 or L3. I always wonder if there was a L1 implant or if they just started with L2 implants.

Information about the implants you can find here: http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Biotics

According to that, Shepard has an L5 implant if he is an Adept (or anyway). I consider Jack's an earlier, more dangerous version of the same line. As jtav said, it depends on when Miranda was retrofitted.

And stop misrepresenting my opinion (that about the other topic).

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 mai 2010 - 10:36 .

[fongiel24]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Jack has L5 and she is dying because of it. I forget what it says but her implant info says the implant is detartering(sp) her brain or osmething like that. Thats why I don't think Miri has a L5 implant, I think L4 or L3. I always wonder if there was a L1 implant or if they just started with L2 implants.

I don't remember Jack dying being explicitly mentioned. All I remember is that Jack is supposed to be getting weaker but is instead growing stronger. Jack's implants are likely highly experimental models anyways. It wouldn't make much sense for L5 implants to be more dangerous than L4s. Shepard was installed with L5s after all and with as many chances as Cerberus is taking when they resurrect him, I doubt they'd take the risk of having a faulty implant hemmorage his brain after all the work they've done.

[kraidy1117]

Ieldra2 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
Jack has L5 and she is dying because of it. I forget what it says but her implant info says the implant is detartering(sp) her brain or osmething like that. Thats why I don't think Miri has a L5 implant, I think L4 or L3. I always wonder if there was a L1 implant or if they just started with L2 implants.

Information about the implants you can find here: http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Biotics

According to that, Shepard has an L5 implant if he is an Adept (or anyway). I consider Jack's an earlier, more dangerous version of the same line. As jtav said, it depends on when Miranda was retrofitted.

And stop misrepresenting my opinion (that about the other topic).

Hmm intresting, I do think then that Miri has L4 then. Won't be L5 since it is kinda new and we don't have that much info on it unlike the other implants.

[Ieldra]

This is because now *i* need a Miranda picture:


And I also do not remember any in-game references of Jack dying from her implants. Where is that from?

Edit:
Good night, everyone. It's almost 1am here...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 mai 2010 - 10:40 .

[kraidy1117]

Ieldra2 wrote...

This is because now *i* need a Miranda picture:

*lovely snip*

And I also do not remember any in-game references of Jack dying from her implants. Where is that from?

When you upgrade her biotic implants, if you read the info it says the implants are killing her body, but at the same time she is getting stronger.

Night Ieldra, I shall enjoy pushing your rant button later *evil laugh*

Modifié par kraidy1117, 29 mai 2010 - 10:41 .

[jlb524]

I thought that was Jack, kraidy?

NVM, you are talking about Jack!

What implants does Miranda have then?

Modifié par jlb524, 29 mai 2010 - 10:45 .