43796 réponses à ce sujet

[Auzden]

Da Shadow Master wrote...

Hey everyone*waves* a little slow I see.
../../../../uploads_user/839000/838282/30545.jpg

man that face sooo cute...... oh crap HNNNNNNNNG!!!!!!!

[Nightwriter]

fongiel24 wrote...

I never thought about this but now that you mentioned it, Night, I'm curious about it too. However, "learning everything I could about you" might not be very extensive. I'm guessing this would only include what Cerberus could learn through sources in the public domain and hacking Alliance/Council records. Miranda's knowledge of Shepard might be limited to psych evaluations and service records. If Shepard comes from the Colonist or Earthborn backgrounds, it's likely that even the Alliance has very little information on his preservice history.

It really depends on what kind of Shepard Miranda is dealing with. My Shepard comes from a true cloak-and-dagger background (black ops, wetwork, unsanctioned missions, etc.) so even Alliance records about his activities are very spares. I explored this a bit in my prequel where Miranda notes that even though she has spent so much time studying Shepard's past, she still knows virtually nothing about the man behind the legend.

Yeah but that's just your roleplay, right? In game Shepard's class affects nothing, least of all romance or how much so-and-so knows about you.

On the contrary, I really think "learning everything I could about you" sounds very extensive. Just because it says... "everything I could about you". Everything. This is Miranda we're talking about. You honestly think she's not going to be thorough? You think she's not going to make it her business to know everything? She would, if only out of a sense of professional excellence.

I also think if there's one organization that could dig up information about someone, it's Cerberus. If there's one organization that has probes in the Alliance and could hack their records, it's Cerberus.

That said I don't think Shepard's files are all that secret, Shepard is just a soldier in the Alliance. Information sensitive to his Spectre status, certainly, would be classified (not that this would stop Cerberus) but his exploits as a Spectre are well known anyway. I think Miranda knew a great deal. A great deal.

[Auzden]

this thread...... these pictures..... over 9..... HNNNNNGG

[jtav]

Night, you are making me want to finish that Miranda/Liara story now. And here I thought I'd put it to bed.

[SgtPotato]

jtav wrote...

Night, you are making me want to finish that Miranda/Liara story now. And here I thought I'd put it to bed.

Then will you work on the Shepard/Miranda romance beside the engine room part?

[TheSixthghoul]

I think we need the option to win Miranda over to are side in me3. Instead, of just getting it, regardless of what we do. I'd love the idea of Miranda agreeing with galactic genocide of all none human life.

[jtav]

Sixth Goul: No, just no. She'd stop being Miranda.



SgtPotato: No. I seem to be all about Miranda/Liara and Miranda/Thane. Though I wouldn't rule out doing a story where pre-ME Shep and Miranda face off.

[Shadedclan]

Hey guys. What's up?

[Nightwriter]

jtav wrote...

Night, you are making me want to finish that Miranda/Liara story now. And here I thought I'd put it to bed.

Lol why? I was just talking about Miranda's knowledge of Shepard...

Sixth Ghoul wrote...

I think we need the option to win Miranda over to are side in me3. Instead, of just getting it, regardless of what we do. I'd love the idea of Miranda agreeing with galactic genocide of all none human life.

No. What they needed were just alternate versions of the "I'm resigning" thing.

No loyalty:

"I... I don't know... no... I - I can't do this..."

(After this she either leaves Cerberus and Shepard, or does not leave Cerberus but is now in disciplinary trouble with TIM).

Loyalty:

"Forget it. Consider this my resignation."

Loyalty + Romance:

"I'm with Shepard. Consider this my resignation."

TIM: "What? Miranda, what the hell has gotten into you?! You - "(looks between Miranda and Shepard) "Oh Christ. You slept with him, didn't you?!"

(^ I expected something like this, I don't know why).

Jacob: "Y'all did what?"

Modifié par Nightwriter, 01 juin 2010 - 03:43 .

[Andaius20]

Moar pics you say?

[fongiel24]

Nightwriter wrote...

Yeah but that's just your roleplay, right? In game Shepard's class affects nothing, least of all romance or how much so-and-so knows about you.

On the contrary, I really think "learning everything I could about you" sounds very extensive. Just because it says... "everything I could about you". Everything. This is Miranda we're talking about. You honestly think she's not going to be thorough? You think she's not going to make it her business to know everything? She would, if only out of a sense of professional excellence.

I also think if there's one organization that could dig up information about someone, it's Cerberus. If there's one organization that has probes in the Alliance and could hack their records, it's Cerberus.

That said I don't think Shepard's files are all that secret, Shepard is just a soldier in the Alliance. Information sensitive to his Spectre status, certainly, would be classified (not that this would stop Cerberus) but his exploits as a Spectre are well known anyway. I think Miranda knew a great deal. A great deal.

Yeah, this is only the way I roleplay it. I never liked how Shepard or Spectres in general were treated in ME. The idea of the Council or the Alliance's top operatives being heavily publicized seems completely contradictory to how things work in our reality. The way Jacob and Miranda's operation was treated in Galaxy seems a lot more realistic. I personally really like writing characters with hidden backstories as well, which strongly affects how I roleplay Shepard. I like the idea of Miranda knowing everything about his accomplishments and his service record but having to really work to get to know the person. It fits into the cat-and-mouse dynamic I've been working on.

[Nightwriter]

fongiel24 wrote...

Yeah, this is only the way I roleplay it. I never liked how Shepard or Spectres in general were treated in ME. The idea of the Council or the Alliance's top operatives being heavily publicized seems completely contradictory to how things work in our reality. The way Jacob and Miranda's operation was treated in Galaxy seems a lot more realistic. I personally really like writing characters with hidden backstories as well, which strongly affects how I roleplay Shepard. I like the idea of Miranda knowing everything about his accomplishments and his service record but having to really work to get to know the person. It fits into the cat-and-mouse dynamic I've been working on.

This is a good point. And if you ever finish your fanfic I'd like to read it.

I think the problem is that Shepard is a hero and in stories the hero tends to be glamorized. Beyond that even, Shepard is the first human Spectre, and you know the Alliance is going to want to wave that medal around.

But even Saren seemed quite well known, though I don't know if people could recognize him on sight (many seemed to be able to). I have to admit, no one knowing who I am or saying "omg it's the first human Spectre Shepard!" when they see me would be a bit of a buzzkill...

One thing I never got is why they don't give you a badge or some form of identification. I mean you're a Spectre. Had the same question about being a Grey Warden. A lot of times you just walk up and say "I'm a Spectre" or "I'm a Warden". How do they know you're telling the truth?

Modifié par Nightwriter, 01 juin 2010 - 05:25 .

[fongiel24]

Nightwriter wrote...

This is a good point. And if you ever finish your fanfic I'd like to read it.

I think the problem is that Shepard is a hero and in stories the hero tends to be glamorized. Beyond that even, Shepard is the first human Spectre, and you know the Alliance is going to want to wave that medal around.

But even Saren seemed quite well known, though I don't know if people could recognize him on sight (many seemed to be able to). I have to admit, no one knowing who I am or saying "omg it's the first human Spectre Shepard!" when they see me would be a bit of a buzzkill...

One thing I never got is why they don't give you a badge or some form of identification. I mean you're a Spectre. Had the same question about being a Grey Warden. A lot of times you just walk up and say "I'm a Spectre" or "I'm a Warden". How do they know you're telling the truth?

The identification thing did seem off in Dragon Age and Mass Effect. I would have thought in Dragon Age you would be given some sort of distinctive armour or heraldry you'd wear on a robe but instead your character just runs around wearing the same armour as everyone else. It really took away from the "specialness" of being a Grey Warden for me, particularly after seeing all the trailers with the cool armour.

In Mass Effect, I really get the sense the concept of Spectres wasn't very well fleshed out. I get the sense Spectres are supposed to be Jason Bourne types, relying on stealth and skill instead of numbers to accomplish their tasks. But how are Spectres (particularly really famous ones like Shepard) supposed to do their job if they ID'd the second they step out of a spaceport and average people in the street are actually coming up to them for autographs?

Regarding the ID thing, maybe Shepard does have some sort of electronic ID that omnitools can pick up. There might also be laws in place that make impersonating a Spectre an unthinkable offense as well. These are weak explanations, but without an official explanation they're the best I can do.

[Nightwriter]

Well I guess I can understand it with Wardens, from a developing standpoint... whatever symbol they give you can't be on armor, what if you change your armor? There's also the fact that sometimes you don't want to announce that you're a Warden. I think the same might be said of Spectres. (btw I thought the trailer armor was cool too)

I got the sense the Spectres weren't well fleshed out too. I think they could've improved this by having us meet other Spectres (Spectres that aren't evil and don't die ten minutes in). Part of the sense you got of what it means to be a Warden came from Duncan.

And I've considered that maybe some Spectres are meant to be "public" Spectres and others covert Spectres. Each might serve a purpose in their way. I also know Shepard was pretty well known even before s/he became a Spectre, so it might be difficult.

A floating holographic omnitool ID would be awesome.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I also have playthroughs were she did speak to Oriana (and even in my "canon" world, I like to imagine she'll eventually speak to her). I do prefer her to be the one to kill Niket because her fury toward Enyala is more controlled. And most of my Sheps are too by-the-book to get along with her especially well. Miserable Miranda provides more story hooks anyway.

I found the Niket decision difficult. Shooting your best friend is extreme, even if he was a betrayer, on the other side my Shepards usually respect Miranda's decisions too much to interfere. I'd have preferred a two-step interrupt, like this:

Miranda aims at Niket
(Shepard grabs her arm) "Are you sure you want to do that? He was your oldest friend"
Miranda (cool and unmoved): "No one can betray you like your oldest friend" (shakes Shepard off and aims at Niket again)
Shepard would then have the option of interrupting again or letting her shoot.

I dislike that Miranda is convinced so easily. That's not like her. My "canon" Shepard would have used the first interrupt but not the second. As things go currently Shepard's text is unconvincing at this point. Still, I tend to use the interrupt reflexively, but shouldn't have done in my last playthrough.

Regarding Oriana, I always encourage Miranda to speak to her. Even if I play Renegade, for my Renegades do have empathy (with one exception), they just take the necessary decisions anyway. Also it appeals to my sense of balance to have Miranda lose one personal connection and gain a new one shortly after.

[tommyt_1994]

Hello Miranda fans. Im just dropping in to ask a quick question about how you justify some things Miranda does, because I like her character, but some things she says and does bothers me. A few of these things are: the fight with Jack, I just cant seem to justify what Miranda says to Jack during that scene, I can't see why anyone would side with her during that conversation. Second, sometimes its just her attitude. Sometimes just the way she addresses situations bugs me, she can kinda comes off as ****y sometimes. No offense to you guys intended. Lastly, her being in Cerberus. My Shepards are paragon, and cerberus is nothing short of an extremely shady organization. Would anyone care to share how the justify her actions in situations? Do you blame it on her upbringing? Or is it something else? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
PS: Large Paragraphs do not frighten me

[Ieldra]

[quote]Nightwriter wrote...
1. When she said she was modified for the first time: "Not my choice, but there you go." I was very surprised, from the pre-release hype I had definitely gotten the impression it was her choice.[/quote]
This is - surprisingly - a matter of science. After-conception genetic modification is much more difficult than germline engineering, and if it affects the adult (post-puberty) brain it should be outright miraculous. From the Codex, I get the impression that this hasn't really taken off in the ME universe apart from medical applications as in the Family Matter assignment in ME1. Even Grunt is not modified this way. Otherwise, we should see a lot more "human improvement" experiments from Cerberus. 

[quote]2. "Well I guess it's only fair. I've spent two years learning everything I could about you."[/quote]
This really took me aback, too. I thought she was just rebuilding me, I didn't know it was so extensive. It also seemed like a really strange line to just leave hanging out there, and they never went back to it. I was like, seriously? She spent two years familiarizing herself with all these intimate details... and we just leave that there?[/quote]
In the prologue, you can read the computer logs. They say they want Shepard's personality intact. I would've been very much surprised if Miranda hadn't familiarized herself with her subject beyond the merely biological. If not, there would have been no way to test if they'd been succesful.

[quote]It would be better if during romance dialogue Miranda admits she is curious about certain aspects of your file she's been wondering about and starts questioning you about them. [/quote]
Yes, that would have been appropriate. I think someone at Bioware probably thought of it, but the resources available for each character probably prevented a more in-depth exploration. There's a lot that should have been done in the romance but wasn't. It just moves too fast.

[Ieldra]

tommyt_1994 wrote...
Hello Miranda fans. Im just dropping in to ask a quick question about how you justify some things Miranda does, because I like her character, but some things she says and does bothers me. A few of these things are: the fight with Jack, I just cant seem to justify what Miranda says to Jack during that scene, I can't see why anyone would side with her during that conversation.

The important aspect here is that Jack comes to Miranda (the scene takes place in Miranda's room) and she's picking a fight. No matter who is right about Cerberus, Jack's part of the mission and she's pretty much agreed to let things lie until the mission is done. If you use the Paragon persuasion option (which you should have no problem getting if you play Paragon), you tell them that the mission is more important and to cooperate until the mission is done. Siding with Miranda is more Renegade, here you tell Jack she has agreed to work with them for the time being and she has no business bringing her personal matters up at this point. Which I also find a plausible way to look at it.
Having said that, yes, what Miranda says ("you were a mistake") intends to hurt emotionally. It's her way of doing things. Jack gets physical, Miranda is more subtle. But if Jack had her way, Miranda would be dead. What she says doesn't sound quite as bad if you consider that.

Second, sometimes its just her attitude. Sometimes just the way she addresses situations bugs me, she can kinda comes off as ****y sometimes. No offense to you guys intended.

She keeps her distance and tends to look at situations rationally rather than emotionally. She also tells you to keep your distance on Lazarus station, and IMO, that's fitting. You have no business intruding on her personal space a few minutes after having met her for the first time. This is an aspect about her I really love. She wouldn't be half as interesting without it. Which situations exactly do you refer to? I'm sure I can give you an explanation.

Lastly, her being in Cerberus. My Shepards are paragon, and cerberus is nothing short of an extremely shady organization. Would anyone care to share how the justify her actions in situations? Do you blame it on her upbringing? Or is it something else? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

For Paragon players, Cerberus can be seen as the necessary evil. No one else gives you the chance to do something against the Collectors. No matter how much you dislike them, working with them really is the best option for now. That Paragon Shepard won't like that is very much a part of the whole setup. As for justifying her actions, you'd need to give me examples, I can't answer in general terms. But the most important part: you can like her, be attracted to her, fall in love with her, while still not liking what she does half of the time. It's an emotional conflict, and makes for a compelling story setup. But give me a situation where you think you need to justify her actions, and I'll see what I can come up with.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 01 juin 2010 - 07:49 .

[kraidy1117]

tommyt_1994 wrote...

Hello Miranda fans. Im just dropping in to ask a quick question about how you justify some things Miranda does, because I like her character, but some things she says and does bothers me. A few of these things are: the fight with Jack, I just cant seem to justify what Miranda says to Jack during that scene, I can't see why anyone would side with her during that conversation. Second, sometimes its just her attitude. Sometimes just the way she addresses situations bugs me, she can kinda comes off as ****y sometimes. No offense to you guys intended. Lastly, her being in Cerberus. My Shepards are paragon, and cerberus is nothing short of an extremely shady organization. Would anyone care to share how the justify her actions in situations? Do you blame it on her upbringing? Or is it something else? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
PS: Large Paragraphs do not frighten me

Well for the first part, I never sided with Miri at all, nor do I side with Jack. I always use charm or intimanate. Also both where at fault at this part. Jack went up to Miri's office to start **** while miri acted very cold. As for how she acts? Why is that a problem? Hevan forbid Miri does not like to talk about her past to anyone and is not open to people. Samara says a very intresting qoute about her, and she does push things away because her wholel ife she has looked after her self and has also been used countless of times and has accepeted to be a tool of Cerberus. This gives people the inlusion that she is a bi*ch which she is not, she does not think anyone should know alot about her, big reason I like her. As for Cerberus, Miri is the ends justify the needs(or dsid I screw that qoute up) person. She has also been with Cerberus for a long time and pretty much is with them for many reasons, big one Oriana.

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
That's what our Miranda biography is missing. Also she must have had higher education somewhere while she was with Cerberus, and you don't get that easily with private instructors. Probably combined studies with undercover work. A lot of story hooks there, and she could have honed her spy skills there as well.

Since Miranda is genetically engineered, she likely has a genius-level intellect. I can easily see her being like those prodigies today, kids who finished a doctorate before they even turn 20. If this is the case, it's possible she completed her higher education even before she ran away from her father.

That's stretching it. Since we think it's plausible she ran away before Oriana was born, that would have been at 16 at the latest. Also, the thought of her completing her higher education while under cover somewhere and doing the odd job for Cerberus for an extended period of time just appeals to me. I have added it to to my personal canon....

[kraidy1117]

The still think the big driving force for Miri to work with Cerberus is Oriana, but that's just me.

[Ieldra]

Auzden wrote...
this thread...... these pictures..... over 9..... HNNNNNGG

Hmm. I don't know how to interpret this. I guess you're calling for pictures. I'm glad to comply...Here's your favorite good morning view:

[Ieldra]

kraidy1117 wrote...
The still think the big driving force for Miri to work with Cerberus is Oriana, but that's just me.

She makes it pretty clear she believes in Cerberus' agenda as she sees it. She may have started to work with them because of Oriana, but now it's clearly more than that.