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[Ieldra]

Here's a question about Miranda's appearance:



As the screenshots on this page (or the previous if this goes on page 1747) show, Miranda does often look very beautiful. But there are quite a few situations where she doesn't. It's as if while working on her face, the artists made a few miniscule mistakes that serve to push her into Uncanney Valley when viewed from certain angles or in certain lighting conditions. There are three aspects I tend to notice:

(1) In some scenes, her jaw seems to be wider than it should be. For instance, in the waking-up cutscene. The interesting thing is that this effect disappears completely in some other scenes - for instance, those scenes used for the wallpapers quoted above. I always ask myself how the same face can look so different in two scenes.

(2) Her skin is quite pale. While as a rule, I like this very much (the pale-skinned brunette trope works almost every time for me), there are some scenes where it looks outright unnatural. Example: the after-the-mission cuddle in the captain's cabin.

(3) Some lighting conditions put shadows in her face that make her look creepier than a natural human face would look under the same conditions. Example: walk around with Miranda on Omega - it's quite hard to make screenshots there without getting this effect. I'd take this as an artifact of the graphics engine, but it doesn't seem to affect other human characters. Which makes it noticeable.



My question is: why do you think Bioware made it that way? Miranda is "made for perfection", so why didn't they put some more effort into avoiding situations like these? Especially since no other human or asari character (the asari count because they have human faces) display these effects? Or do they and I just didn't pay as much attention to them as I did to Miranda?



Disclaimer: everyone who knows me here knows how much a fan of Miranda I am, so please don't take this the wrong way.

[TheSixthghoul]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sixth Goul wrote...
On that note I have new poll up social.bioware.com/poll.php  Sandal vs Liara Biowares worst character.

Oh my....apart from me disagreeing about Liara: I guess you never met Noober.

Ha... which part do you disagree with? And who's Noober, is that like some Zelda character or something?

[Ieldra]

Sixth Goul wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sixth Goul wrote...
On that note I have new poll up social.bioware.com/poll.php  Sandal vs Liara Biowares worst character.

Oh my....apart from me disagreeing about Liara: I guess you never met Noober.

Ha... which part do you disagree with? And who's Noober, is that like some Zelda character or something?

Noober is an annoying character in "Baldur's Gate" (made by Bioware, as opposed to the Zelda games) who approached you again and again to tell you something completely insignificant like "hey, there!", repeatedly interrupting whatever you were doing. You had the choice to kill him, but if you didn't and had the patience to fend him off verbally about 20-40 times, you got some xp.

Regarding Liara:
I disagree that Liara has no personality. I also disagree that she does not have character development, though, if you haven't read Redemption, her character development may come across as character derailment. While she doesn't much appeal to me as an LI, she does have her interesting aspects. As for being "the embodiment of all things wrong with the aliens", well, if you count the whole asari species then I agree, but I consider it inappropriate to single Liara out on this.

I would agree that her personality seems somewhat shallow compared with Miranda, most notably if you haven't read Redemption (and you shouldn't need to to understand her). But that's different from saying she doesn't have any at all.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 juin 2010 - 10:33 .

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Here's a question about Miranda's appearance:

As the screenshots on this page (or the previous if this goes on page 1747) show, Miranda does often look very beautiful. But there are quite a few situations where she doesn't. It's as if while working on her face, the artists made a few miniscule mistakes that serve to push her into Uncanney Valley when viewed from certain angles or in certain lighting conditions. There are three aspects I tend to notice:
(1) In some scenes, her jaw seems to be wider than it should be. For instance, in the waking-up cutscene. The interesting thing is that this effect disappears completely in some other scenes - for instance, those scenes used for the wallpapers quoted above. I always ask myself how the same face can look so different in two scenes.
(2) Her skin is quite pale. While as a rule, I like this very much (the pale-skinned brunette trope works almost every time for me), there are some scenes where it looks outright unnatural. Example: the after-the-mission cuddle in the captain's cabin.
(3) Some lighting conditions put shadows in her face that make her look creepier than a natural human face would look under the same conditions. Example: walk around with Miranda on Omega - it's quite hard to make screenshots there without getting this effect. I'd take this as an artifact of the graphics engine, but it doesn't seem to affect other human characters. Which makes it noticeable.

My question is: why do you think Bioware made it that way? Miranda is "made for perfection", so why didn't they put some more effort into avoiding situations like these? Especially since no other human or asari character (the asari count because they have human faces) display these effects? Or do they and I just didn't pay as much attention to them as I did to Miranda?

Disclaimer: everyone who knows me here knows how much a fan of Miranda I am, so please don't take this the wrong way.

most of it is technical limitationsof the engine, particularly the way it handles lighting. whilst the 3.5 update did the games a whole a lot of good, some of the "baked" static lighting is very unflattering on all character models at times, so everyone looks weird from some camera angles anyway. the jawline thing might have been to improve definition from most viewing angles as well, perhaps to alleviate some lighting issues (notice epic's games have very bulky character models in comparison). overall the lighting in the game is much, much better than me1 - much harsher and more fitting, and some places look stunning and suitably science-fiction universe awesome.
skin-tone is more difficult, because you'd expect paler to look more unnatural, especially given the lighting, but it might have been a trade-off for a more unique look. most of the time it's fine. going from GDC video to final game, miranda also seems to have changed quite a lot in appearance, to much more like yvonne does, perhaps moreso than other characters, maybe that has something to do with it, as well.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 09 juin 2010 - 10:43 .

[Prudii Aden]

Ieldra2 wrote...
(3) Some lighting conditions put shadows in her face that make her look creepier than a natural human face would look under the same conditions. Example: walk around with Miranda on Omega - it's quite hard to make screenshots there without getting this effect. I'd take this as an artifact of the graphics engine, but it doesn't seem to affect other human characters. Which makes it noticeable.

My question is: why do you think Bioware made it that way? Miranda is "made for perfection", so why didn't they put some more effort into avoiding situations like these? Especially since no other human or asari character (the asari count because they have human faces) display these effects? Or do they and I just didn't pay as much attention to them as I did to Miranda?

I don't have a problem with 3 - it happens a fair chunk to me - having reasonably defined and high cheekbones, I end up looking like a skull or rather creepy under certain conditions. I consider it a fact of life - no-one (not even Miranda) is going to look wonderful from absolutely every direction, under every possible lighting condition. I would count 3 as a mark of good work.

[Ieldra]

It only bothered me when trying to make screenshots on Omega. But it's still noticeable how much this happens to Miranda but not other human characters. Yes, having a more defined facial structure - a more individual face, as Miranda definitely has - would result in this.

[Errol Dnamyx]

There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion.

Sir Francis Bacon

[TheSixthghoul]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sixth Goul wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sixth Goul wrote...
On that note I have new poll up social.bioware.com/poll.php  Sandal vs Liara Biowares worst character.

Oh my....apart from me disagreeing about Liara: I guess you never met Noober.

Ha... which part do you disagree with? And who's Noober, is that like some Zelda character or something?

Noober is an annoying character in "Baldur's Gate" (made by Bioware, as opposed to the Zelda games) who approached you again and again to tell you something completely insignificant like "hey, there!", repeatedly interrupting whatever you were doing. You had the choice to kill him, but if you didn't and had the patience to fend him off verbally about 20-40 times, you got some xp.

Regarding Liara:
I disagree that Liara has no personality. I also disagree that she does not have character development, though, if you haven't read Redemption, her character development may come across as character derailment. While she doesn't much appeal to me as an LI, she does have her interesting aspects. As for being "the embodiment of all things wrong with the aliens", well, if you count the whole asari species then I agree, but I consider it inappropriate to single Liara out on this.

I would agree that her personality seems somewhat shallow compared with Miranda, most notably if you haven't read Redemption (and you shouldn't need to to understand her). But that's different from saying she doesn't have any at all.

It's a shame, I could change the title to the  worst character sense the merge with EA.

I've never read Redemption, but if you look at it objectively it say's two things about Liara's role im Mass Effect. First off, I think the devs had no clue what to put Liara as a party member with a background and Dynamic personalty or a plot character with a static personalty, with a short role and no relevants other than to move the plot forwards. So you end up with a hybred a static plot party member with a short plot role and no relevant role. Lets say the devs gave her personalty in the game where it counts, it would contradict the goals set to avoid canonization. Giving her personalty would imply she could grow to love or hate Shepard emotionally(like a real person)or she could lean more to renegade or paragon like the other two.But, she can't she doesn't have personalty, because she is a plot character needed for Redemption.It wouldn't make sense for a character who hates Shepard to risk everything to "save" them.

[Jebel Krong]

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion.
Sir Francis Bacon

nice!

[jtav]

Ieldra, perhaps the oddness is a side effect of the procedure used to scan Strahovski's face?



And, Sixth Goul, knock it off with the Liara-bashing. This isn't the thread for it. Some of us do love her character. I'm certainly not writing what looks like it's going to be a 15,000 story pairing her with Miranda because I hate her.

[VampireCommando]

And i'm back, que evil laughter; muahahahahahaha, i see i've missed a rather large disucsion as usual, damn time zones *shakes fist in the air*.

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Errol Dnamyx wrote...
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion.
Sir Francis Bacon

nice!

Nice indeed. The answer I was looking for was somewhat more technical, though....

And here's something for you timezoned Miranda fans just coming in:

[VampireCommando]

Ahhh Ieldra, your this threads daily source of wonderful Miri picture aren't you lol.

[jtav]

Ah, pictures. You do realize you're making it very hard for me to romance Tali, Ieldra?

[TheSixthghoul]

We need is a new Miranda related topic. Hm... I wonder what do i have in my little bag of awesomeness?

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Ah, pictures. You do realize you're making it very hard for me to romance Tali, Ieldra?

A completely unintended side effect...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 juin 2010 - 04:22 .

[VampireCommando]

jtav wrote...

Ah, pictures. You do realize you're making it very hard for me to romance Tali, Ieldra?

Its not the pictures, its your sub- concious teling you to scrap Tali and go for Miri lol.

[jtav]

The horrible thing is that I remember being underwhelmed by the actual romance (don't hate it, but it was too short to be satisfying) Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. And I haven't actually seen Tali or Jack's yet. Must experience all options so I can construct my "canon" Shep. Who, right now, will probably be a FemShep who romances Kaidan and Thane, with a secondary one for Miranda. Probably a FemShep who stays faithful to Liara as well because I already feel guilty and I haven't even recruited Tali yet!

Modifié par jtav, 09 juin 2010 - 04:43 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...

The horrible thing is that I remember being underwhelmed by the actual romance (don't hate it, but it was too short to be satisfying) Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. And I haven't actually seen Tali or Jack's yet. Must experience all options so I can construct my "canon" Shep. Who, right now, will probably be a FemShep who romances Kaidan and Thane, with a secondary one for Miranda. Probably a FemShep who stays faithful to Liara as well because I already feel guilty and I haven't even recruited Tali yet!

It seems Bioware must make a game involving alternate universes for you. Then you'll be able to control several avatars at the same time and romance everyone.

Anyway, I know the feeling. Just one canon Shepard doesn't work for me. There have to be at least one femShep and one maleShep. As of now it seems there'll be an additional femShep for a total of three.

[jlb524]

Does anyone here roleplay different Shepards but romance the same person? I do.

[jtav]

I believe we've established I'm incapable of that. If you asked me to choose between Miranda, Liara, and Thane, my brain would break down.

[jlb524]

I really only like one romance (Shepard/Liara), though I do like some of the other characters a lot, I just never had any desire to do the romance.



I know that most people who have multiple Shepards do so for different romances. I guess I do so to just create different Shepards having different personalities, backgrounds, etc. I always end up with Liara, though.

[Caihn]

Hi,

Some pictures where Miri is so
I love this scene because the lighting is great and Miranda's face is full of emotion.







And of course the one I used for my profile picture :

[jtav]

Well, right now I'm just trying to see what romances I like best. I'll probably end up having a who romanced just Miranda, one who "cheated" on Kaidan w/ Thane and one who's faithful to Liara. I'm no good at having a OTP.

[Ieldra]

jlb524 wrote...
Does anyone here roleplay different Shepards but romance the same person? I do.

Definitely. My maleSheps always romance Miranda, and I have three of them, with one being more Paragon and having destroyed the base (that was painful) while the others vary in Paragade/Renegon and a few minor decisions but kept the base. They also have different backgrounds, look different, prefer different casual clothing and have different classes (Adept, Infiltrator, Sentinel). But they're all attracted to Miranda and have not half an eye for Tali or Jack.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 juin 2010 - 06:42 .