43796 réponses à ce sujet

[Melra]

So my positive attitude was for nothing.. I am going to die alone either way? Phuuh.

[kraidy1117]

Melrache wrote...

So my positive attitude was for nothing.. I am going to die alone either way? Phuuh.

I will join you Mel:wizard:

[Kabraxal]

Melrache wrote...

So my positive attitude was for nothing.. I am going to die alone either way? Phuuh.

I hate that sinking certainty with a passion.  Sometimes it makes me wonder....

[Melra]

I thought you had a wife!

[Ieldra]

Maviarab wrote...

Hmmm ok Ield...

I actually don't think it will make any difference.
I say this becuase throughout the first 2 games, there has been no mention (unless I missed it) about genetical modification etc, cloning, gene therepy etc etc)...so one muct assume its still a forbidden s'science' if you like....

The fact that both Shep and Miri have been 'modified' is slightly irrelevent to me, as Shep was modified by a very rich and distrusted orgnisation, and similar with Miri...
I just see them as being who they are, better than human, but humanity wont change.

Your almost treading on very dodgy ground Ield, were talking about perfect races almost. Hitler wanted a perfect race, the man was a visionary, but he executed his plan all wrong, now look 60+ years later, and we are injecting mothers so babies will be born immune to a hundred and one virus's and disease's.....same end product, different way of getting there....and I for one, do not believe in messing with the laws of nature I'm afraid.

I don' think the human body is more sacrosanct than the rest of nature, and we're "messing with the laws of nature" every time we use a piece of technology. I think it's only a matter of time before genetic modification becomes common. Whether we're wise enough to use it, well, wisely, that's another question, and I admit to some serious doubt. The political ramifications alone are unpleasant to consider and tricky to solve while keeping our values intact at the same time. But that won't stop it coming.

You can actually see how it will go in ME. If forbidden, some people won't care, and some of them will have enough money to get results. When the first modified fertile woman is in the world - a woman like Miranda but perhaps not quite that advanced, it's all out of the box and won't be contained. We have the chance to use the technology in a smart or a stupid way, but we won't have the change not to use it at all. Not if some Cerberus-like organization doesn't come along and performs experiments so horrible that the whole idea is tainted for centuries. Which may happen, now that I think of it, in the ME universe.

I doubt this aspect of things has escaped the people at Bioware. Whether they make anything of it is another matter. It was touched in an ME1 sidequest, I think it was called "Family matters". I always told the woman not to be a fool and have the gene therapy. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 mars 2010 - 03:21 .

[Guardian295]

Maviarab wrote...

Agreed with the tech Toshi yes,
But that still leaves the advanced human/master race theory lacking....Shep and Miri are 'advanced'....yet the majority of humanity is the same as you and me, thus in my mind, that type of genetic modification still can't be legal/common etc....

Which leads me back to my first comments. Surely if that sort of things was going to happen, it would have happened by the time the ME universe takes place...and it has not. Which in answer to Ield's question, i dont see either Shep or Miri's 'enhancements' making any difference to humanity as a whole

We all love sci-fi etc, but we also know Bioware of are fairly reserved in their opinions about things (either they like to sit on the fence or are afraid of possible implications towards their way of thinking)...so i find it interesting there is not a lot of talk of cloning, gene therepy, stem research and a lot of other things that are currently being debated by our governments and the courts as to what is legal and what isnt.

Again, I find it interesting that the two most 'advanced' humans were 'built' off the grid so to speak....

genetic modification is legal in the ME universe
all Alliance solders are 'enhanced'
all humans live longer and look younger
and the tech is availbe to the general public it's just expensive

Modifié par Guardian295, 05 mars 2010 - 03:24 .

[ToshiStation38]

From Codex...

In the 22nd century, manipulation of the human genome became commonplace. Techniques for genetic engineering advanced to the point where the rich could custom-build fetuses that grew into stronger, smarter, and more attractive adults. In more permissive regions, custom-designed life forms and "uplifted" animals occupied an ill-defined niche between "property" and "sapient being".

Travel to planets with unique forms of life brought an awareness that Earth's biodiversity could be lost if it spliced and hybridized to gain useful alien qualities. The Sudham-Wolcott Genetic Heritage Act was passed by the Systems Alliance Parliament in 2161. It imposed sharp restrictions on controversial uses of genetic engineering, but provided government subsidies for beneficial applications.

SCREENING AND THERAPY: Most governments provide free assessments and corrective therapy for genetic diseases in prospective parents. This has nearly eliminated everything from cystic fibrosis to nearsightedness. The earlier screening and therapy is performed, the more comprehensive the results. Though ideally performed on artificially fertilized zygotes in a lab, procedures are available for embryos in the womb and newborns, out of respect for personal beliefs.

ENHANCEMENT: Improvements of natural human abilities is legal, but adding new abilities is not. Treatments to improve strength, reflexes, mental ability, or appearance are permitted; adding a tail or the ability to digest cellulose is not. Some genetic enhancement is provided for free to Alliance military recruits, but the average citizen must pay for the privilege. The process can take years to reach fruition in an adult.

ENGINEERING: Artificial hybridization of genes from compatible non-human species with human genetic code is illegal. Creation of designed life is broadly legal (and mainly used for terraforming and medial applications), but sentient creatures are heavily regulated, and creation of sapient life is outlawed by both the Systems Alliance and the Citadel Council.

Modifié par ToshiStation38, 05 mars 2010 - 03:26 .

[Kabraxal]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

Hmmm ok Ield...

I actually don't think it will make any difference.
I say this becuase throughout the first 2 games, there has been no mention (unless I missed it) about genetical modification etc, cloning, gene therepy etc etc)...so one muct assume its still a forbidden s'science' if you like....

The fact that both Shep and Miri have been 'modified' is slightly irrelevent to me, as Shep was modified by a very rich and distrusted orgnisation, and similar with Miri...
I just see them as being who they are, better than human, but humanity wont change.

Your almost treading on very dodgy ground Ield, were talking about perfect races almost. Hitler wanted a perfect race, the man was a visionary, but he executed his plan all wrong, now look 60+ years later, and we are injecting mothers so babies will be born immune to a hundred and one virus's and disease's.....same end product, different way of getting there....and I for one, do not believe in messing with the laws of nature I'm afraid.

I don' think the human body is more sacrosanct than the rest of nature, and we're "messing with the laws of nature" every time we use a piece of technology. I think it's only a matter of time before genetic modification becomes common. Whether we're wise enough to use it, well, wisely, that's another question, and I admit to some serious doubt. The political ramifications alone are unpleasant to consider and tricky to solve while keeping our values intact at the same time. But that won't stop it coming.

You can actually see how it will go in ME. If forbidden, some people won't care, and some of them will have enough money to get results. When the first modified fertile woman is in the world - a woman like Miranda but perhaps not quite that advanced, it's all out of the box and won't be contained. We have the chance to use the technology in a smart or a stupid way, but we won't have the change not to use it at all. Not if some Cerberus-like organization doesn't come along and performs experiments so horrible that the whole idea is tainted for centuries.

I doubt this aspect of things has escaped the people at Bioware. Whether they make anything of it is another matter. It was touched in an ME1 sidequest, I think it was called "Family matters". I always told the woman not to be a fool and have the gene therapy. 

I was always the opposite.  Gene therapy just seems wrong on so many levels.  It scares me that we are beginning to see its use in our world.

I don't think humanity is defined by the genetic characteristics such as Shep and Miri are physically defined though.  That is one of the reason's why I like Miri so much.  She is a wonderful example of a person who seeks to define themselves not by their body or their specific enhancements, but by their deeds and their emotions.  In that respect, Miri and Shepard could have an intense impact on the human race because they signify that the "improvements" are not the true answer to greatness... it is the human spirit and the will to persevere. 

I see humanity stepping away from modifications based on the example of Shepard and Miri, not embracing them.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...

Do we know anything about what Miranda did between running away and joining Cerberus? I think it's plausible that she might have spent time "off the grid" before joining them. She's genetically perfect and the embodiment of what Cerberus stands for, but she was also a sixteen-year-old kid, presumably one without commando training, estranged from a generous donor. I think it's likely (not certain) that she had to survive on her own for a bit and did something in the process of that survival to impress TIM.

If I recall things correctly, she said she joined Cerberus right away. I don't recall if she approached them or vice versa. I've been thinking of some time she might've spent on her own when I was writing my fanfic, and it would be interesting if she had. I'd have to go back to the conversation I just passed in my current game (and did not save this time, grrr) to check. Perhaps someone else knows. 

[Annjul666]

i have no idea what are you talking about right now =.= modifications? whats with them?

i was sad because i had read that everyone here doesnt have a life... that this all sux... and now their mood has got into me.

and i am reading some blogs on the internet... i cant believe that people are so stupid.

[kraidy1117]

I bit my tongue >_>

[KalenNighteyes]

20 pages over night? Sheesh... how am I supposed to catch up! Lol



Morning everyone

[Melra]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Do we know anything about what Miranda did between running away and joining Cerberus? I think it's plausible that she might have spent time "off the grid" before joining them. She's genetically perfect and the embodiment of what Cerberus stands for, but she was also a sixteen-year-old kid, presumably one without commando training, estranged from a generous donor. I think it's likely (not certain) that she had to survive on her own for a bit and did something in the process of that survival to impress TIM.

If I recall things correctly, she said she joined Cerberus right away. I don't recall if she approached them or vice versa. I've been thinking of some time she might've spent on her own when I was writing my fanfic, and it would be interesting if she had. I'd have to go back to the conversation I just passed in my current game (and did not save this time, grrr) to check. Perhaps someone else knows. 

It was said that she eluded her father for sometime prior to running into Cerberus for protection. Exact amount of time isn't said anywhere or at least not that I know of.

[Melra]

Morning Kalen. How are you today?

[kraidy1117]

Hiya Kalen, hows it going?

[Guardian295]

Morning Kalen

[kraidy1117]

Maviarab wrote...

well Annjul....from the minute we are born...we are just 'waiting' to die are we not?
Some people have a good in between period, most don't.

I agree with kabrax a lot (though having a nervous breakdown and then severe depression doesnt help your train of thought), if your life is going nowhere, you have nothing to enjoy or look forward too, then really...why bother putting yourself through another x amount of years misery?

Very sad way of looking at things I agree, but also something to think about too.

*hugs* (because I was told too....and felt like it hehe)

So you think sucided is a good thing Mav?

[Ieldra]

ToshiStation38 wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

Yeah I now of those Toshi, but in the main humans are still humans (biotic power aside)....in the ME universe we still don't seem to have really evolved from what we are now ......"except under very special circumstances" which usually involves 'organisations' as say apoosed to...I dunno....local health care if you follow me

That's because we can rely on technology instead of physiological or anatomical adaptations to overcome harsh conditions. We aren't entirely unaffected by natural selection, but medical sciences have certainly loosened natural evolution's hold on us. It would take a long, long, long time for ****** sapien to evolve into something new. Our technologies can make us fit in many different environments, and I'm sure humans can survive pretty much any environment in the ME universe.

You forget that the cultural and technological environment created by us creates just as much selection pressure. Only the traits selected are probably a bit different than in the past.
Then, yes, we have or will have the technology to survive in many environments. The question remains if, assuming humans will, at some time, expand into space and garden worlds prove uncommon enough, some would wish to have their bodies adapted so they have to rely less on technology. I don't have an inkling, since this is all pure speculation. As opposed to genetic modification as such, I don't see that coming in the ME universe. Habitable worlds are much too common there. 

[Kabraxal]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

well Annjul....from the minute we are born...we are just 'waiting' to die are we not?
Some people have a good in between period, most don't.

I agree with kabrax a lot (though having a nervous breakdown and then severe depression doesnt help your train of thought), if your life is going nowhere, you have nothing to enjoy or look forward too, then really...why bother putting yourself through another x amount of years misery?

Very sad way of looking at things I agree, but also something to think about too.

*hugs* (because I was told too....and felt like it hehe)

So you think sucided is a good thing Mav?

I understand that mentality a lot more than I used to... which scares me.  Badly.

[ToshiStation38]

Kabraxal wrote...

I was always the opposite.  Gene therapy just seems wrong on so many levels.  It scares me that we are beginning to see its use in our world.

I'm actually planning to pursue a career in genetic therapy or biotechnology

I understand your concerns, though. The possibility for social elitism is disturbing. It's kind of why I'm moreso drawn to biotechnology.

[Guardian295]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

well Annjul....from the minute we are born...we are just 'waiting' to die are we not?
Some people have a good in between period, most don't.

I agree with kabrax a lot (though having a nervous breakdown and then severe depression doesnt help your train of thought), if your life is going nowhere, you have nothing to enjoy or look forward too, then really...why bother putting yourself through another x amount of years misery?

Very sad way of looking at things I agree, but also something to think about too.

*hugs* (because I was told too....and felt like it hehe)

So you think sucided is a good thing Mav?

Life is the ultimate test we pass by surviving

[Titan98RG]

Kabraxal wrote...

I was always the opposite.  Gene therapy just seems wrong on so many levels.  It scares me that we are beginning to see its use in our world.

truly?  gene therapy seems so right in some ways as well.