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[MassAffected]

@ andy



Ah, very niiice indeed.

[Ieldra]

MassAffected wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Do you think to think there's a chance we might interact with Miranda's dad in ME3? II want a chance to rip the abusive bastard limb from limb. No, wait, I want Miranda to do it. "Just the first one he kept" indeed.I know not everyone likes Miranda, but the number of people who think she's some spoiled rich kid who threw a tantrum appalls me.

Do I want MIranda to do that? I don't know. Perhaps it would be more correct to say I want Miranda to have the chance. I'd rather have him go out the airlock and be done with it.

And these people you speak of - they haven't got any imagination. As if things for which anyone would deserve death weren't done to daughters by their fathers, of any social stratum whatsoever, in the real world. 

There was that one dude that kept his daughter in the basement for the better part of her young adult/adult life doing terrible things to her...that deserves a lot more than death, but death would be a good start. Honestly, I think I hate Miranda's father more than TiM and we haven't even got a glimpse of him yet. I'm more than sure that if given the option to do the Renegade interrupt my Shepard will snap that dude's neck.

No hate here. For that, I'd need the details. There is still the possibility that Niket was a bit more correct that we give him credit for. I don't think he was, but I won't make fast judgments. Not even in a story.

[Jediknight120]

My Shep would give Miranda's dad a chance to explain, and then proceed to the neck snapping if I didn't like his answer.

[MassAffected]

Ieldra2 wrote...

MassAffected wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Do you think to think there's a chance we might interact with Miranda's dad in ME3? II want a chance to rip the abusive bastard limb from limb. No, wait, I want Miranda to do it. "Just the first one he kept" indeed.I know not everyone likes Miranda, but the number of people who think she's some spoiled rich kid who threw a tantrum appalls me.

Do I want MIranda to do that? I don't know. Perhaps it would be more correct to say I want Miranda to have the chance. I'd rather have him go out the airlock and be done with it.

And these people you speak of - they haven't got any imagination. As if things for which anyone would deserve death weren't done to daughters by their fathers, of any social stratum whatsoever, in the real world. 

There was that one dude that kept his daughter in the basement for the better part of her young adult/adult life doing terrible things to her...that deserves a lot more than death, but death would be a good start. Honestly, I think I hate Miranda's father more than TiM and we haven't even got a glimpse of him yet. I'm more than sure that if given the option to do the Renegade interrupt my Shepard will snap that dude's neck.

No hate here. For that, I'd need the details. There is still the possibility that Niket was a bit more correct that we give him credit for. I don't think he was, but I won't make fast judgments. Not even in a story.

I can't help myself, we know (at least from Miranda telling us) that she was the first "daughter" he kept. That would lead me to believe that the guy is responsible for creating and killing a number of kids. I can see your point tho, but like I said...can't help but hate him.

[jtav]

Agreed MassAffected. I don't even know the guy's name (and I find the lack of details given about him interesting) and I want to kill him. Slowly. He and Ronald Taylor feel worse than the Reapers because their evil is more "real" even if it has sci-fi trappings.

[Andysilv]

I agree with Jedi. I always give people a chance to explain but if anybody harms Miri, or tries to? Boom!

[jtav]

Maviarab wrote...

No hate here. For that, I'd need the details. There is still the possibility that Niket was a bit more correct that we give him credit for. I don't think he was, but I won't make fast judgments. Not even in a story.

But of you loved someone enough, you would take their word as gospel....if you didnt, then that entails a lack of trust and belief, which in turn throws your whole relationship into question.

That depends. People, even people we love have biases. Witness Miranda's willful blindness to Cerberus atrocities. But, in this case, I believe her.

[MassAffected]

jtav wrote...

Agreed MassAffected. I don't even know the guy's name (and I find the lack of details given about him interesting) and I want to kill him. Slowly. He and Ronald Taylor feel worse than the Reapers because their evil is more "real" even if it has sci-fi trappings.

Yeah, their evil is tangible and like you said more "real". The Reapers are a threat, but nothing is worse than seeing the kind of evil the race you're trying to save is capable of.

[jtav]

I said I believed her about her father. I was objecting to the notion that I should "take her word as gospel" about everything.

[MassAffected]

Maviarab wrote...

No sorry jtav, thats rubbish...there is no depends.
If your prepared to give her father the benefit of the doubt, then you don't fully trust Miranda, and without trust, there is no real relationship.

In this case I have to agree with you Mav, I would not take her father's words as anything but a way to get out of the situation alive. I have to trust her because thats all we have in a universe of double cross and double speak.

[Valmy]

Maviarab wrote...

No hate here. For that, I'd need the details. There is still the possibility that Niket was a bit more correct that we give him credit for. I don't think he was, but I won't make fast judgments. Not even in a story.

But of you loved someone enough, you would take their word as gospel....if you didnt, then that entails a lack of trust and belief, which in turn throws your whole relationship into question.

Eh Garrus is my boy but I wasn't just going to let him gun down that Turian and I stopped Miranda from gunning down Niket.  I trust her but that doesn't mean I am just going to shoot and ask questions later.  There may be a way to resolve it peacefully.

[MassAffected]

Valmy wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

No hate here. For that, I'd need the details. There is still the possibility that Niket was a bit more correct that we give him credit for. I don't think he was, but I won't make fast judgments. Not even in a story.

But of you loved someone enough, you would take their word as gospel....if you didnt, then that entails a lack of trust and belief, which in turn throws your whole relationship into question.

Eh Garrus is my boy but I wasn't just going to let him gun down that Turian and I stopped Miranda from gunning down Niket.  I trust her but that doesn't mean I am just going to shoot and ask questions later.  There may be a way to resolve it peacefully.

I did the same thing there, but it wasn't because I wanted a peaceful resolution. I just didn't want that blood on their hands. In my mind they had enough to deal with already...I just don't see a peaceful solution as an option when it comes to her dad. Its not like you could send him to prison, he is too well connected and would be out. I doubt you can convince him to see the error of his ways and having the "Miranda and her dad reconcile" option would cheapen the conflict and hate she has for him. Killing him seems like the only viable option to me, granted I'm blinded by rage.

[Prudii Aden]

Miranda's dad? I'd give him a chance to speak his piece, then let Miranda decide what to do with him, although my suggested option would be 'to the pain'.

[Ieldra]

Maviarab wrote...

No hate here. For that, I'd need the details. There is still the possibility that Niket was a bit more correct that we give him credit for. I don't think he was, but I won't make fast judgments. Not even in a story.

But of you loved someone enough, you would take their word as gospel....if you didnt, then that entails a lack of trust and belief, which in turn throws your whole relationship into question.

Then perhaps I'm unable to love someone "enough". I certainly wouldn't take anyone's word as a gospel when it comes to the decision to kill someone. I do not believe in faith.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 mars 2010 - 07:22 .

[MegWithAMouth]

When it comes to Miranda's dad, obviously my Shepard is going to give her the final word on the matter. But if we go after him and she wants him dead, my Shepard will gladly oblige. I was opposed to such action initially, but after reading Mass' post, I'm convinced that there really is no alternative when it comes to protecting Miranda and Oriana.

[MassAffected]

MegWithAMouth wrote...

When it comes to Miranda's dad, obviously my Shepard is going to give her the final word on the matter. But if we go after him and she wants him dead, my Shepard will gladly oblige. I was opposed to such action initially, but after reading Mass' post, I'm convinced that there really is no alternative when it comes to protecting Miranda and Oriana.

*sigh* If Miranda told me not to kill him I would find it VERY hard not to pull the trigger, but I think I would listen to her...if she told me that she wanted him dead like what I think will happen then I will CAIN him!!

All this killing talk is slightly depressing

[Ieldra]

Maviarab wrote...

No sorry jtav, thats rubbish...there is no depends.
If your prepared to give her father the benefit of the doubt, then you don't fully trust Miranda, and without trust, there is no real relationship.

I can say this: if Miranda told us the details, then I would be able to decide. But we still don't know what exactly she suffered at his hands. And as long as I don't know that, I refuse to make a final judgment.

What he did with his earlier daughters: if he killed them as 6-week-old embryos, I wouldn't have a problem with it, if he sent his children away but didn't kill them, I wouldn't like it but it's not enough reason to kill. We just don't know the details.

As opposed the Jacob's father. There we know, and I have no problem leaving him to his justly deserved fate.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 mars 2010 - 07:31 .

[MassAffected]

I do wish for them to expand on this a lot more...here is hoping for some Miranda centric DLC AGAIN *crosses fingers*

[Ieldra]

Maviarab wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

No hate here. For that, I'd need the details. There is still the possibility that Niket was a bit more correct that we give him credit for. I don't think he was, but I won't make fast judgments. Not even in a story.

But of you loved someone enough, you would take their word as gospel....if you didnt, then that entails a lack of trust and belief, which in turn throws your whole relationship into question.

Then perhaps I'm unable to love someone "enough". I certainly wouldn't take anyone's word as a gospel when it comes to the decision to kill someone. I do not believe in faith.

Faith has nothing to do with it. Faith is a belief of something you cannot prove. If Miranda says she wants her dad dead because of X, Y & Z, and you  choose to question X, Y & Z, then you do not trust her, there really is no middle ground on this, you either trust what they say, or you don't, and if you don't, you have no basis for a relationship.

No, i do not question X, Y or Z. I question the need to kill.

[MassAffected]

Maviarab wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

No hate here. For that, I'd need the details. There is still the possibility that Niket was a bit more correct that we give him credit for. I don't think he was, but I won't make fast judgments. Not even in a story.

But of you loved someone enough, you would take their word as gospel....if you didnt, then that entails a lack of trust and belief, which in turn throws your whole relationship into question.

Then perhaps I'm unable to love someone "enough". I certainly wouldn't take anyone's word as a gospel when it comes to the decision to kill someone. I do not believe in faith.

Faith has nothing to do with it. Faith is a belief of something you cannot prove. If Miranda says she wants her dad dead because of X, Y & Z, and you  choose to question X, Y & Z, then you do not trust her, there really is no middle ground on this, you either trust what they say, or you don't, and if you don't, you have no basis for a relationship.

Question on this for you. My Shepard cares about Miranda A LOT...but during her loyalty mission I questioned her trust in Niket because something just seemed off. I was right and he had betrayed her. So sometimes due to their personal bias and experience they may not have the "full" story. I don't see this as the case with her "father", but it was with Niket. Just something to think about I guess.

[Prudii Aden]

MegWithAMouth wrote...

When it comes to Miranda's dad, obviously my Shepard is going to give her the final word on the matter. But if we go after him and she wants him dead, my Shepard will gladly oblige. I was opposed to such action initially, but after reading Mass' post, I'm convinced that there really is no alternative when it comes to protecting Miranda and Oriana.

Having thought about it a bit more, while I like the to the pain option option, I think taking a leaf out of Mr Garibaldi's book and putting quite a substantial chunk of change in a hidden bank account which pays out if Miranda, Oriana, Shepard or any of their family/kids die of anything other than old age, at which point it goes into paying for assassins/problemsolvers, to deal with the problem of Miranda's father.

Modifié par Prudii Aden, 09 mars 2010 - 07:39 .

[Karstedt]

Maviarab wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

No hate here. For that, I'd need the details. There is still the possibility that Niket was a bit more correct that we give him credit for. I don't think he was, but I won't make fast judgments. Not even in a story.

But of you loved someone enough, you would take their word as gospel....if you didnt, then that entails a lack of trust and belief, which in turn throws your whole relationship into question.

Then perhaps I'm unable to love someone "enough". I certainly wouldn't take anyone's word as a gospel when it comes to the decision to kill someone. I do not believe in faith.

Faith has nothing to do with it. Faith is a belief of something you cannot prove. If Miranda says she wants her dad dead because of X, Y & Z, and you  choose to question X, Y & Z, then you do not trust her, there really is no middle ground on this, you either trust what they say, or you don't, and if you don't, you have no basis for a relationship.

This is silly. You can trust someone, without agreeing with them or even thinking they are right about everything. I trust my mom, but she's wrong about lots of stuff. And I would be downright stupid to simply agree with everything she says. I think you're confusing relationships with religion. People aren't omnipotant. Views can be skewed, and objectivisim is not unhealthy for a relationship (though it does seem like it where I live).