50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Yeled]

jlb524 wrote...

Yeled wrote...


Don't you think the very mention of new characters will create a strong reaction among the fan base?  Its certainly true that new characters will probably be included, but if they start putting new characters out there before they mention what's going to happen with the old ones, they are very likely going to get as many if not more questions and comments expressing concern on these forums about the old characters as they get positive feedback about the new ones.

They can just tell them 'trust us' like they did before.  People are fickle too.  While most people currently posting in the community will be pissed, there will be an influx of new comers closer to game release.  The won't have as much of an attachement to the characters as the current posters.  It will be the same thing that happened going from ME1 to ME2.

After ME1 was released, most BW forumites would have hated the idea of having new squad mates for ME2.  Closer to ME2 with all the hype and newcomers, the forum's attitude changed quite a bit regarding the squad mate situation.

*nods*  That makes sense.  I only lurked once in a while before ME2, so I'm one of the newcomers.  Though I am definitely in line with the old forumites in that I was reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllly disappointed by the way they handled the ME1 characters.  All I really wanted in ME2 was a continuation of the story from ME1, and that included the relationships (not just romances) built during the first game.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

WilliamShatner wrote...


I think it's hard to care for poorly written, one dimensional superhmans...

Isn't that a bit harsh to some of the ME2 squadmates?

[jlb524]

Nivenus wrote...

BioWare wants the ME1 and ME2 characters to be on the same footing in ME3. They've said as much. That's why the ME1 characters weren't recruitable. The ME2 characters might be dead. So might everyone besides Liara.

That doesn't make sense.  They still could have had all the ME1 characters in ME2, created new characters and had everyone at equal footing by the end. 

[TMA LIVE]

Been re-reading the 4th comic. Though Liara has took a huge 180 jump in character in just 2 months, I do have a lot of respect for her, and do feel like she's more harden and mature. In ME1, she's more of a shy, child scientist, but in the comic, she's presented as more older and harden. Still too big of a jump in just 2 months (plus this as the motive for everything is still lame), and is still a 180 from what she'll turn into in Mass Effect 2. But if Liara ended up being like she is in the comic in Mass Effect 2, I might have liked her more.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 05 mai 2010 - 05:50 .

[jtav]

*raises hand* I fully expect and anticipate some new team members, along with some returning from previous installments. Bioware likes creating new characters and players generally like getting to know them. And ME3 isn't an expansion pack. The only thing I expect in terms of "fairness" is that my ME2 romance be treated as equally valid.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Nivenus wrote...

BioWare wants the ME1 and ME2 characters to be on the same footing in ME3. They've said as much. That's why the ME1 characters weren't recruitable. The ME2 characters might be dead. So might everyone besides Liara.

I cant believe Im doing this, but Casey Hudson said (silence those alarm bells) that what was saved for the ME1 romances in ME3 was so important, they couldnt have them on the squad because everyone on the squad can die in ME2, and they didnt want that cancelling out what they have planned in ME3. Now that doesnt sound to me like they wanted everyone "on equal footing". It sounds to me like the ME2 squadmates roles in ME3 wont be as important as the ME1 LIs.

Of course, Casey also said Liara would have an important and large role in ME2 and that the romance would "continue", so Im fully prepared to accept he most likely was blowing smoke up our collective backside with that comment.

[jlb524]

jtav wrote...

*raises hand* I fully expect and anticipate some new team members, along with some returning from previous installments. Bioware likes creating new characters and players generally like getting to know them. And ME3 isn't an expansion pack. The only thing I expect in terms of "fairness" is that my ME2 romance be treated as equally valid.

I think that will happen, but I think not all LIs will be squad mates.  There will be a generic 'romance scene' at the end that will feature Shepard and the LI, whether they are from ME1, ME2, or a new ME3 character.  They might add a small touch to the scene for different LIs, but it will be basically the same thing ('Oh!  The Final Reaper battle approaches!  We might die...I love you!  Let's get it on!')

[Marcin K]

 i got slight network lag and new page popped up!

[Derumiel]

Nivenus wrote...
BioWare decided to add LIs and new character to ME2. They decided to leave ME1 characters, with the notable exception of Garrus and Tali out. They left the ME1 character out so there would be fewer variables to carry over to ME3. That doesn't mean they'll cut out the ME2 characters - they'll still have to deal with those variables regardless. But there's nothing you do in ME2 that affects the ME1 LIs and Wrex substantially - so they don't have to worry about whether the ME1 interests and Wrex were killed, had any important decisions during the romance, etc, etc.

BioWare wants the ME1 and ME2 characters to be on the same footing in ME3. They've said as much. That's why the ME1 characters weren't recruitable. The ME2 characters might be dead. So might everyone besides Liara.

To pick up the point with the variables. Let's see. In ME1 we have:
1. Liara - Alive in ME3 for sure
2. Ashley - Might be dead (substituted with Kaidan)
3. Kaidan - Might be dead  (substituted with Ash)
4. Garrus - also Squaddie in ME2 - Might be dead in ME3
5. Wrex - Migth be dead in ME3
6. Tali -also Squaddie in ME2 - Might be dead in ME3
7. Joker  - Alive for sure
8. Pressley - Dead
9. Chakwas(is that spelled right?) - Might be dead in ME3

This alone creates a variety of possible outcomes for ME3. I agree that their fate is mostly untouched in ME2 (exept Tali and Garrus).

Now let's add the new crew, which all can die.
Mordin, Jacob, Miranda, Garrus, Legion, Samara, Thane, Grunt, Jack, Tali,Kelly,(Zaeed), (Kasumi).
Some might be alive in ME3, some might not.

Besides that huge variety of possible appearences (BW would have to include new Squad members to replace possible casulties? Or else the ME3 squad could be too small...) what do we need to implement the character. 1. A special role in the Story  2. A certain amount of topics they can talk about. (Besides the main-story-missions). This point could get difficult because we already know the most important aspects of the ME2 squad. (Mainly because of their loyality missions). The ME1 squad also told a lot about themselfs but due to ME2 they have new stories that can be told (e.g. Liara/Shadow Broker, Wrex/Krogans). As for Garrus/Tali i'm not sure.
Now, we also have the LI aspect and how that should be implemented. And so on....

So I just wanted to express that it's incredibly difficult to write a full role for every former Squad member. And every Crewmember has a certain (bigger or smaller) fanbase. Besides that i think that BW likes all their character creations and they might have a certain plan/viewpoint how to carry on with them. But I can't imagine the can give every single one the same story/mission/screentime.
So we'll probably have some dissappointment among some fanbases and happiness amongst others. Just my opinion.

Arg, i hope you can read this and understand my (confusing) thoughts....i'm feeling a bit dizzy now.
ah whatever.

Edit: Minor correction. Thanks to Noxis6!

Modifié par Derumiel, 05 mai 2010 - 06:10 .

[Noxis6]

One minor correction though Chakwas can die in ME2 if you dont pick an escort for the crew

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Derumiel wrote...

So we'll probably have some dissappointment among some fanbases and happiness amongst others. Just my opinion.

Sounds vaguely familiar, doesnt it?

If they could handle it for ME2, hopefully they can handle it for ME3.

Like J pointed out, its not like there will be a shortage of folks closer to ME3s release to say they dont care about the ME2 squad, or than having their own lives and goals away from Shepard will do them some good (if things turn out for the best, thats certainly what Ill be saying at least).

[Derumiel]

Lizardviking wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...
I think it's hard to care for poorly written, one dimensional superhmans...

Isn't that a bit harsh to some of the ME2 squadmates?

I agree with Lizardviking. I think some characters could have needed some improvement in terms of character writing, yes. But i disagree that they are poorly written.
For me a character is well written if it creates an emotion within the player. This might be sympathy, hate, adoration,...
The feeling can be good or bad. But as long as the player has an emotion towards the character it can't be that bad written, imo.
For example: I dislike Grunt. I dislike him because of his behaviour. It creats a feeling towards the character. Thats a good point for me, although i don't like the character.
Or Liara. I like that character in ME1 and (with her changes) in ME2.
Ok, enough i get a bit far from the topic....

[Yeled]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Of course, Casey also said Liara would have an important and large role in ME2 and that the romance would "continue", so Im fully prepared to accept he most likely was blowing smoke up our collective backside with that comment.

I still think they had planned Liara's role to be much larger and cut it all later in the process.  So Casey's comment might have been valid at the time he made it.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Derumiel wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...
I think it's hard to care for poorly written, one dimensional superhmans...

Isn't that a bit harsh to some of the ME2 squadmates?

I agree with Lizardviking. I think some characters could have needed some improvement in terms of character writing, yes. But i disagree that they are poorly written.
For me a character is well written if it creates an emotion within the player. This might be sympathy, hate, adoration,...
The feeling can be good or bad. But as long as the player has an emotion towards the character it can't be that bad written, imo.
For example: I dislike Grunt. I dislike him because of his behaviour. It creats a feeling towards the character. Thats a good point for me, although i don't like the character.
Or Liara. I like that character in ME1 and (with her changes) in ME2.
Ok, enough i get a bit far from the topic....

To be honest. I thought Jack, Grunt, Jacob and Thane were all pretty terrible written.

But Samara, Mordin, Legion and the DLC characters were pretty friggin awesome.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 05 mai 2010 - 06:23 .

[JamieCOTC]

Yeled wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Of course, Casey also said Liara would have an important and large role in ME2 and that the romance would "continue", so Im fully prepared to accept he most likely was blowing smoke up our collective backside with that comment.

I still think they had planned Liara's role to be much larger and cut it all later in the process.  So Casey's comment might have been valid at the time he made it.

Compared to Ash/Kaiden, Liara DOES have a large and important role in ME2.  For me the problem is BioWare’s PR speak.  It's worse than political doubletalk. Yes, technically, the ME1 romance is rocky.  Nearly nonexistent can be defined as rocky.  Technically, the DA romances continue in Awakening since it’s never said that it doesn’t and there is a slide mention at the end.  Technically, Darkspawn Chronicles will extend the life of DA:O (as advertised) as it is new DLC, but then ANY new DLC will do that.  So, yeah, technically, all these things are true, but they are still BS. 

[Derumiel]

Lizardviking wrote...

To be honest. I thought Jack, Grunt, Jacob and Thane were all pretty terrible written.

But Samara, Mordin, Legion and the DLC characters were pretty friggin awesome.

So thats how opinions can be different. ^^
Imo Jack was one of the best written characters, while Mordins acts in a strange and non authentic manner.

[jlb524]

I don't think any of the ME2 characters are poorly written or are uninteresting, I just did not allow myself to get emotionally attached to them. They are in ME2 and I like them in that game just fine, but I don't care if they are around in the future. If they are, great. If they are not, no loss.

[bjdbwea]

jlb524 wrote...

I don't think any of the ME2 characters are poorly written or are uninteresting, I just did not allow myself to get emotionally attached to them.

Uninteresting is a matter of personal opinion. I do find several of them uninteresting. Some would say "poorly written" is also a matter of opinion, but I think there are some standards to measure it objectively. And I do think that several characters in ME 2 are quite poorly written indeed, in fact Mordin is the only one where I think the writing is truly up to BioWare's standards from previous games.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 05 mai 2010 - 06:41 .

[Nivenus]

jlb524 wrote...

Nivenus wrote...

BioWare wants the ME1 and ME2 characters to be on the same footing in ME3. They've said as much. That's why the ME1 characters weren't recruitable. The ME2 characters might be dead. So might everyone besides Liara.

That doesn't make sense.  They still could have had all the ME1 characters in ME2, created new characters and had everyone at equal footing by the end. 

You're misinterpreting me again.

If Liara/Kaidan/Ashley/Wrex has been recruitable in ME2 than they would have had decision points associated with them, just as they did in ME1. Garrus and Tali, by contrast, were pretty decision point free in ME1. This is not the case in ME2, where there are plenty of important decision points associated with them - which is also the case for everyone in the party except for Zaeed and Kasumi.

BioWare has already said that they wanted to keep Liara/Virmire Survivor free of major choices in ME2 to simplify the carry-over process for ME3. This is the position I am arguing from.

[Noxis6]

jlb524 wrote...

I don't think any of the ME2 characters are poorly written or are uninteresting, I just did not allow myself to get emotionally attached to them. They are in ME2 and I like them in that game just fine, but I don't care if they are around in the future. If they are, great. If they are not, no loss.

I also wouldnt say they are poorly written or completely unintresting,though I'm indifferent about some of them,but they certainly lack content in some cases,Garrus for example feels like he was tagged on at the last minute because he has so few dialogue overall,or the fact that there are no friendship paths for the romance characters,at least I found it kind of lacking