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[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Derumiel wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

To be honest. I thought Jack, Grunt, Jacob and Thane were all pretty terrible written.

But Samara, Mordin, Legion and the DLC characters were pretty friggin awesome.

So thats how opinions can be different. ^^
Imo Jack was one of the best written characters, while Mordins acts in a strange and non authentic manner.

I'm cool enough with people liking Jack. Since the reason i hate her is more because i REALLY loath the "beaten puppy" type of characters.
But how people can even remotely like Grunt or Jacob is beyond me.
My hate for Thane is more about i hate characters that serves no purpose beyond appeasing fans (in this case the female fans).

[TMA LIVE]

The point of having so many different characters is that you'll have people you hate, and people you like. Thus, when you're traveling, you'll always be able to only bring the people you like.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 05 mai 2010 - 06:49 .

[Derumiel]

bjdbwea wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I don't think any of the ME2 characters are poorly written or are uninteresting, I just did not allow myself to get emotionally attached to them.

Uninteresting is a matter of personal opinion. I do find several of them uninteresting. Some would say "poorly written" is also a matter of opinion, but I think there are some standards to measure it objectively. And I do think that several characters in ME 2 are quite poorly written indeed, in fact Mordin is the only one where I think the writing is truly up to BioWare's standards from previous games.

Right, how you see a character depends on personal opinions. But even objectivity depends in parts on the viewer.
Whats bad for one might be good for another. Right. Imo its just how attached i am towards a character (as i said earlier if a character is well written for me it creates an emotion).
I always try to think myself into a book/film/anime/game to get to know the characters and feel with them.
Arg i drive away from the topic again....

Oh and j, why did you not allow yourself to get attached to them?

[jlb524]

Nivenus wrote...

You're misinterpreting me again.

If Liara/Kaidan/Ashley/Wrex has been recruitable in ME2 than they would have had decision points associated with them, just as they did in ME1. Garrus and Tali, by contrast, were pretty decision point free in ME1. This is not the case in ME2, where there are plenty of important decision points associated with them - which is also the case for everyone in the party except for Zaeed and Kasumi.

BioWare has already said that they wanted to keep Liara/Virmire Survivor free of major choices in ME2 to simplify the carry-over process for ME3. This is the position I am arguing from.

I get what you are saying...I'm just saying they did not have to do this.  They could have brought over Liara/Kaidan/Ashley/Wrex as squad mates but spared them from dying in the suicide mission somehow.  They could have done anything they wanted.  Hell, they didn't even need a suicide mission and everyone can be alive for ME3.

Besides, Liara/Kaidan/Ashley/Wrex were pretty decision point free.  Kaidan/Ashley/Wrex had one (dead or not) and Liara didn't really have any at all.  I still don't think it would have been overly complicated to bring them into ME2.

Bioware has stated they wanted to keep Liara/Virmire Survivor out of ME2 to 'save them' for ME3...to me, they are making it seem they aren't as worried about saving the others and these crew mates seem expendable.  It seems like they are saying they might cut down on squad mates in ME3 in order to simplify the carry-over and any of the possibly dead ME2 squad mates would be cut first.

[jlb524]

Derumiel wrote...

Oh and j, why did you not allow yourself to get attached to them?

Well, I allowed myself to get attached to the ME1 characters and that didn't turn out too well....fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!

Add to that, the fact that each and everyone could possibly be dead would increase their likelihood of only getting a small cameo in ME3. 

[jlb524]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I feel like posting this picture as it's a new page and Liara's smile is absolutely beautiful!

Yes it is...uh huh!!

[Nivenus]

jlb524 wrote...

Nivenus wrote...

You're misinterpreting me again.

If Liara/Kaidan/Ashley/Wrex has been recruitable in ME2 than they would have had decision points associated with them, just as they did in ME1. Garrus and Tali, by contrast, were pretty decision point free in ME1. This is not the case in ME2, where there are plenty of important decision points associated with them - which is also the case for everyone in the party except for Zaeed and Kasumi.

BioWare has already said that they wanted to keep Liara/Virmire Survivor free of major choices in ME2 to simplify the carry-over process for ME3. This is the position I am arguing from.

I get what you are saying...I'm just saying they did not have to do this.  They could have brought over Liara/Kaidan/Ashley/Wrex as squad mates but spared them from dying in the suicide mission somehow.  They could have done anything they wanted.  Hell, they didn't even need a suicide mission and everyone can be alive for ME3.

Besides, Liara/Kaidan/Ashley/Wrex were pretty decision point free.  Kaidan/Ashley/Wrex had one (dead or not) and Liara didn't really have any at all.  I still don't think it would have been overly complicated to bring them into ME2.

Bioware has stated they wanted to keep Liara/Virmire Survivor out of ME2 to 'save them' for ME3...to me, they are making it seem they aren't as worried about saving the others and these crew mates seem expendable.  It seems like they are saying they might cut down on squad mates in ME3 in order to simplify the carry-over and any of the possibly dead ME2 squad mates would be cut first.

Eh, discussion is verging close to off-topic, but let me just say that I have a bit more faith in BioWare and I don't expect them to cut the entire ME2 party just because every single one of them might die. The die/not die switch is pretty simple really - write dialogue for if they're alive and write a brief reference to them if they're not. It's really, really easy.

[bjdbwea]

Derumiel wrote...

Right, how you see a character depends on personal opinions. But even objectivity depends in parts on the viewer. Whats bad for one might be good for another.

Not really. For example: I'm sure the Garrus fans are pleased they were catered to, and are happy enough. However, if they were willing to listen, I could point out several things where the writing was - objectively - lacking. If they were willing to listen, they would certainly agree that they'd have liked to see this and that part improved, so that their favourite character would get even better.

I would have liked to see Liara's story and romance continue in ME 2. However, would the writing lack as much as it does for most ME 2 characters (and for her actual role in ME 2), I'd still be disappointed. That's why at this point, even knowing she'd be in ME 3, wouldn't make me enthusiastic yet.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 05 mai 2010 - 07:07 .

[jlb524]

Nivenus wrote...

Eh, discussion is verging close to off-topic, but let me just say that I have a bit more faith in BioWare and I don't expect them to cut the entire ME2 party just because every single one of them might die. The die/not die switch is pretty simple really - write dialogue for if they're alive and write a brief reference to them if they're not. It's really, really easy.

Well, if it was so easy, why couldn't they do it with just three characters (Ash, Kaidan, Wrex) going from ME1 to ME2?

It just comes down to outlook...you have faith and are optimistic...I don't and am pessimistic. 

[Derumiel]

bjdbwea wrote...

Not really. For example: I'm sure the Garrus fans are pleased they were catered to, and are happy enough. However, if they were willing to listen, I could point out several things where the writing was - objectively - lacking. If they were willing to listen, they would certainly agree that they'd have liked to see this and that part improved, so that their favourite character would get even better.

I would have liked to see Liara's story and romance continue in ME 2. However, would the writing lack as much as it does for most ME 2 characters (and for her actual role in ME 2), I'd still be disappointed. That's why at this point, even knowing she'd be in ME 3, wouldn't make me enthusiastic yet.

I think you got me a bit wrong here. I just wanted to express that people tend to set prioritys in different things.
I see your point though.

jlb524 wrote...
Well, I allowed myself to get attached to
the ME1 characters and that didn't turn out too well....fool me once,
shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!
Add to that, the fact
that each and everyone could possibly be dead would increase their
likelihood of only getting a small cameo in ME3. 

Ok, i see your point. 
It's just that for me the attachment to the characters improves the game itself. (I mean seeing ME2 with all its characters alone here - not the connection between ME1-ME2-ME3)

[Asheer_Khan]

The only characters from ME 2 i started to like was Jack, Morodin and Miranda (Tali and Garrus don't count since thier ME 1 roots), rest of the team was just "guest appearance" for me... and honestly if any possibility that Ash will somehow comeback will surface... i will grant Jacob chance to prove himself in vents.



No..., i will wait for any non blinded by moneys review of ME 3 before i will even consider to purchase that game because i don't let Bioware to cheat me again as they do whit ME 2 and thier too many unfulfilled promises related to that game...

[Nivenus]

jlb524 wrote...

Nivenus wrote...

Eh, discussion is verging close to off-topic, but let me just say that I have a bit more faith in BioWare and I don't expect them to cut the entire ME2 party just because every single one of them might die. The die/not die switch is pretty simple really - write dialogue for if they're alive and write a brief reference to them if they're not. It's really, really easy.

Well, if it was so easy, why couldn't they do it with just three characters (Ash, Kaidan, Wrex) going from ME1 to ME2?

It just comes down to outlook...you have faith and are optimistic...I don't and am pessimistic. 

*sigh*

Because it's simpler. They could have done it and it would have been easy enough, but they wanted to minimalize the little easy programming tweaks they'd have to make for ME3. By ME3, the ME1 party members will have had an entire game where they're the focus and the ME2 party members will have the same. They'll be on equal ground. They'll both have had decision points that are easy to tweak. Contrast that if the ME1 party members were included ME3 would have to factor in both ME1 and ME2.

That's the difference.

[jlb524]

Nivenus wrote...

*sigh*

Because it's simpler. They could have done it and it would have been easy enough, but they wanted to minimalize the little easy programming tweaks they'd have to make for ME3. By ME3, the ME1 party members will have had an entire game where they're the focus and the ME2 party members will have the same. They'll be on equal ground. They'll both have had decision points that are easy to tweak. Contrast that if the ME1 party members were included ME3 would have to factor in both ME1 and ME2.

That's the difference.

And like I said, they still could have brought those characters over into ME2 but gave them a free pass from dying in the suicide mission, minimizing any new variables added to the situation.  They didn't have to further complicate things with these characters in ME2 and they still could have given them a squad mate role.

[Marcin K]

 my net is laging today a bit, anyway i go OFFLINE overnight, cya all tomorrow, have a great night, dream bout Liara:
and some pic as my legacy for today:

[bjdbwea]

If the ME 1 companions and the ME 2 companions and the inevitable bunch of newcomers are going to be companions in ME 3, all of them will be even more shallow and pointless than they were in ME 2, where it already was too many.

[jlb524]

bjdbwea wrote...

If the ME 1 companions and the ME 2 companions and the inevitable bunch of newcomers are going to be companions in ME 3, all of them will be even more shallow and pointless than they were in ME 2, where it already was too many.

That's my worry too...I wouldn't even want Liara as a squad mate in this case, as her squad mate role would be shallow anyways.   It might be better if she is an important npc. 

[Asheer_Khan]

Hell... in compare to ME 2 even Kotor 2 looks like amazing RPG game... (i miss Kreja's speeches) despite illogical end in rebuild enclave.



That's why i have rather dark fellings about ME 3, and in matter of fact lack of any let say "developers notes" about creating ME 3 only strenghten those fears.



And really... Bioware should really stop behave like they deal whit bunch of teenagers whit all those DLCs announcements because slowly this start to become ridiculous...

"Keep tuned up for super duper new DLC..." which in the end turned out as more or less useless stuff...



I really wonder by the way where is this "big amount of DLCs" promised by devs?

So far we get how many... 20? from which three (Zaaed, Kasumi and Firewalker) added more "content" to game, rest of them were pure appearance and gears DLCs.



That's why i have very dim hope that this another incoming DLC will really add something decent to ME 2.

[Fiannawolf]

I have to wonder though...just how many new squadmates will show up in 3, I mean we have a huge cast now with both games.

[jlb524]

As long as they don't ruin the character and allow romance completion, I'm fine. I'd prefer a role similar to her ME1 role...a squad mate in a 'small' squad. I don't want her character in ME3 to be like a Tali or Garrus in ME2, where they don't say anything to you unless you are romancing them.

[Derumiel]

jlb524 wrote...

As long as they don't ruin the character and allow romance completion, I'm fine. I'd prefer a role similar to her ME1 role...a squad mate in a 'small' squad. I don't want her character in ME3 to be like a Tali or Garrus in ME2, where they don't say anything to you unless you are romancing them.

I really am a bit scared that with all those possible character appearences, their depth will suffer. And there might be an unsatisfying relationship end.
If a former LI is not in the squad in ME3, how will the relationship continue(if the character is not really important for the story)? So we have those LIs: Liara, Kaidan, Ash, Jack, Tali, Miranda, Jacob, Thane and Garrus. Those alone could fill the whole ME3 squad.
I really am curious how BW will manage to continue the story and keep the character writing on a constant high level... (e.g. reveal the Liara/Shadowbroker plot,....)

Modifié par Derumiel, 05 mai 2010 - 07:47 .

[IndigoWolfe]

Has this been posted here yet?