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Support Liara T'Soni for ME3 - Squadmate and LI


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#25301
WilliamShatner

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Derumiel wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...
I think it's hard to care for poorly written, one dimensional superhmans...

Isn't that a bit harsh to some of the ME2 squadmates?

I agree with Lizardviking. I think some characters could have needed some improvement in terms of character writing, yes. But i disagree that they are poorly written.
For me a character is well written if it creates an emotion within the player. This might be sympathy, hate, adoration,...
The feeling can be good or bad. But as long as the player has an emotion towards the character it can't be that bad written, imo.
For example: I dislike Grunt. I dislike him because of his behaviour. It creats a feeling towards the character. Thats a good point for me, although i don't like the character.
Or Liara. I like that character in ME1 and (with her changes) in ME2.
Ok, enough i get a bit far from the topic....


I can't agree with that.  You can have a character strangle a kitten on onscreen.  You will hate that character but it isn't good writing

All the characters in ME2 are just placeholders for their race/ability. They are based on a gimmick and their personality is defined by a problem which you solve in a 20 minutes mission.  You solve their problem and they disappear into the background.   Miranda - perfectly engineered, Jacob - black (any worse sign of bad writing than "the token black guy"?) , Mordin - speaks quickly, Subject Zero - psycho, Thane - regretful assassin (haven't seen that one before), Legion - geth, Grunt - krogan.  That's how they start and that's how they finish.  Whereas in ME1 you felt like Ashley, Kaidan and Liara had grown and developed along with you.

Subject Zero and Jacob are pretty much two of the worst characters BioWare have ever written.  Jacob can barely even count as a character he is so bland and uninspired.  Subject Zero is Fallout 3 raider teleported in the Mass Effect universe.  A horrible clash in tone.  Her romance is insulting, sexist and irresponsible portraying the chauvinistic fantasy of a troubled woman being cured by the verile man's love with borderline paedophila thrown into the mix.  If you're female Shepard she treats you like dirt all through the game.  Amazingly you can't decide whether you can this psycho on the ship or not.

Even the character I like - Samara is ripped straight from a Marvel comic book.  She's pretty one dimensional but her forceful personality in regards to a high code of morals is refreshing in admist a crew of degenerates.

It's not helped that every character is so isolated on the ship and you always feel detatched from them.  I felt closer to Kelly than any of my squad.

I did like Kasumi but then I had to spend an extra $7 so she doesn't count.  She also falls victim to superhuman writing with her running up pipes and jumping like Spider-Man.  Did any characters in ME1 do stuff like that?  Even with the introduction of biotics ME1 strived a a certain sense of realism.

#25302
bjdbwea

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She definitely whispers something to female Shepard before the kiss, that's not there with a male Shepard. Very curious. There doesn't seem to be voice acting though, just the lips moving.

Edit: Good post, Mr. Shatner. I completely agree with most of what you say.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 05 mai 2010 - 08:56 .


#25303
smecky-kitteh

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...

#25304
Guest_yorkj86_*

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WilliamShatner wrote...

Subject Zero and Jacob are pretty much two of the worst characters BioWare have ever written.  Jacob can barely even count as a character he is so bland and uninspired.  Subject Zero is Fallout 3 raider teleported in the Mass Effect universe.  A horrible clash in tone.  Her romance is insulting, sexist and irresponsible portraying the chauvinistic fantasy of a troubled woman being cured by the verile man's love with borderline paedophila thrown into the mix.  If you're female Shepard she treats you like dirt all through the game.  Amazingly you can't decide whether you can this psycho on the ship or not.


You should post some of that in the Jack thread.   We hear those exact claims about her character so much.

#25305
WilliamShatner

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I respectfully keep out of the Subject Zero thread. I don't think I would be able to post one nice thing in it to be honest.

#25306
Noxis6

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yorkj86 wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

Subject Zero and Jacob are pretty much two of the worst characters BioWare have ever written.  Jacob can barely even count as a character he is so bland and uninspired.  Subject Zero is Fallout 3 raider teleported in the Mass Effect universe.  A horrible clash in tone.  Her romance is insulting, sexist and irresponsible portraying the chauvinistic fantasy of a troubled woman being cured by the verile man's love with borderline paedophila thrown into the mix.  If you're female Shepard she treats you like dirt all through the game.  Amazingly you can't decide whether you can this psycho on the ship or not.


You should post some of that in the Jack thread.   We hear those exact claims about her character so much.


Well in some cases I would say Jack or should I say Bioware are trying to hard to make her seem "badass" or whatever and strangely  before the game was released they even claimed you didnt have to recruit her at all for your squad,besides powerful biotic or not I always find it somewhat questionable why TIM would want you to recruit such an unstable individual for such a high level mission

Modifié par Noxis6, 05 mai 2010 - 09:09 .


#25307
TMA LIVE

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Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Id rather the ME2 squad get high quality cameo roles in ME3. Weve already outlined the "ME1 Lis were apparantly 'saved', the ME2 squad werent" point, and there is also, due to the plot, the extremely "contractual" nature of the relationship. I know folks have claimed the ME1 LIs were "just flings", but in light of ME2 that claim is just laughable. There is no real talk of the future from any of the squadmates, and if it is, its often "if we survive, Ill go back to doing my own thing".


Well, you see, that might be the reason why Ash/Kaidan/Liara will probably be the most real romance in ME3, since it's more then just "Hey, nice to meet you... glad you like to talk... oh, you like me?" etc.

Instead, I'll be more like "We know each other, we hurt each other, and we've did things we regret... Is there still hope for us? Should we move on? Do you still need me? Do we need to earn ourselves back into each other's arms?" Etc.

With the ME2 romance's, I except a "Hey, glad we're still a couple! Real busy right now... but if you don't romance anyone till the end of the game, expect a nice scene at the end!" and that's it. <_<

#25308
Guest_yorkj86_*

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WilliamShatner wrote...

I respectfully keep out of the Subject Zero thread. I don't think I would be able to post one nice thing in it to be honest.


Do you at least browse the thread?    You don't have to post to learn something.

#25309
Lord Zeuss

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FiveThreeTen wrote...

Image IPB


Shepard: [thinking] Mmmmmmm, Orange Pez!

I am a fan of hugs.:wub:

#25310
FiveThreeTen

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WilliamShatner wrote...

All the characters in ME2 are just placeholders for their race/ability. They are based on a gimmick and their personality is defined by a problem which you solve in a 20 minutes mission.  You solve their problem and they disappear into the background.   Miranda - perfectly engineered, Jacob - black (any worse sign of bad writing than "the token black guy"?) , Mordin - speaks quickly, Subject Zero - psycho, Thane - regretful assassin (haven't seen that one before), Legion - geth, Grunt - krogan.  That's how they start and that's how they finish.  Whereas in ME1 you felt like Ashley, Kaidan and Liara had grown and developed along with you.

Subject Zero and Jacob are pretty much two of the worst characters BioWare have ever written.  Jacob can barely even count as a character he is so bland and uninspired.  Subject Zero is Fallout 3 raider teleported in the Mass Effect universe.  A horrible clash in tone.  Her romance is insulting, sexist and irresponsible portraying the chauvinistic fantasy of a troubled woman being cured by the verile man's love with borderline paedophila thrown into the mix.  If you're female Shepard she treats you like dirt all through the game.  Amazingly you can't decide whether you can this psycho on the ship or not.

Even the character I like - Samara is ripped straight from a Marvel comic book.  She's pretty one dimensional but her forceful personality in regards to a high code of morals is refreshing in admist a crew of degenerates.

It's not helped that every character is so isolated on the ship and you always feel detatched from them.  I felt closer to Kelly than any of my squad.

I did like Kasumi but then I had to spend an extra $7 so she doesn't count.  She also falls victim to superhuman writing with her running up pipes and jumping like Spider-Man.  Did any characters in ME1 do stuff like that?  Even with the introduction of biotics ME1 strived a a certain sense of realism.


My main problem with the Mass Effect 2 cast is that I feel they were DESIGNED rather than written with each character meant to appeal to a certain market .
That doesn't mean the characters are one-dimensional, heck, I really liked some of them
But I think it was very different from Mass Effect 1 .

#25311
bjdbwea

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So... next DLC for DA allows you to fight as - tada - darkspawn, and to kill some of the previous companions. Now that certainly increases my optimism for the alleged Liara DLC!

#25312
Guest_Shavon_*

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bjdbwea wrote...

So... next DLC for DA allows you to fight as - tada - darkspawn, and to kill some of the previous companions. Now that certainly increases my optimism for the alleged Liara DLC!


Ugh.  Imagine if they released a ME dlc where we could fight as the geth for ME1?  Lame.

#25313
Guest_yorkj86_*

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bjdbwea wrote...

So... next DLC for DA allows you to fight as - tada - darkspawn, and to kill some of the previous companions. Now that certainly increases my optimism for the alleged Liara DLC!


"What If"  material tends to be scraping the bottom of the barrel, in most mediums, such as comics, where only occasionally will something meaningful come along.

#25314
Guest_justinnstuff_*

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bjdbwea wrote...

So... next DLC for DA allows you to fight as - tada - darkspawn, and to kill some of the previous companions. Now that certainly increases my optimism for the alleged Liara DLC!


Ugh, what are they doing with DLC? This stuff is crazy...

@Shav - Don't give them ideas!! That may very well replace any Liara DLC. :(

Modifié par justinnstuff, 05 mai 2010 - 09:46 .


#25315
FiveThreeTen

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bjdbwea wrote...

So... next DLC for DA allows you to fight as - tada - darkspawn, and to kill some of the previous companions. Now that certainly increases my optimism for the alleged Liara DLC!

Image IPB

#25316
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*

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bjdbwea wrote...

So... next DLC for DA allows you to fight as - tada - darkspawn, and to kill some of the previous companions. Now that certainly increases my optimism for the alleged Liara DLC!


:crying:

No, just...don't even go there. :unsure:

#25317
jlb524

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bjdbwea wrote...

So... next DLC for DA allows you to fight as - tada - darkspawn, and to kill some of the previous companions. Now that certainly increases my optimism for the alleged Liara DLC!


I knew about the darkspawn part...didn't know you could kill previous companions.

Well, looks like I won't be purchasing that.

#25318
Guest_justinnstuff_*

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Here's what's confusing me. The fanbase gets really attached to their characters. Like us. Then they come out with DLC where you have a chance to kill those you became attached to? J you have the right idea not getting attached to anything in ME2, that DLC just proves it even more.

#25319
Goodwood

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I'm confuzzled...

#25320
Onyx Jaguar

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Shavon wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

So... next DLC for DA allows you to fight as - tada - darkspawn, and to kill some of the previous companions. Now that certainly increases my optimism for the alleged Liara DLC!


Ugh.  Imagine if they released a ME dlc where we could fight as the geth for ME1


Aw yeah

#25321
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*

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Hell, I'm yet to play DA and it still sounds absolutely infuriating.



I seriously doubt we'll be able to kill Liara in her DLC, though.

#25322
jlb524

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DA:O is good...anything released on top of it is not good.

#25323
Guest_yorkj86_*

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justinnstuff wrote...

Here's what's confusing me. The fanbase gets really attached to their characters. Like us. Then they come out with DLC where you have a chance to kill those you became attached to? J you have the right idea not getting attached to anything in ME2, that DLC just proves it even more.


You're right.   But it's silly to think that the attachment people have to their characters in both ME and Dragon Age won't effect, in some way, how much this Dragon Age DLC sells.

#25324
Onyx Jaguar

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DA is a complete story, this side content sounds more like an exploration in gameplay mechanics than anything. Personally RTO was a complete waste of time and random in the story. At least this is different.

#25325
WilliamShatner

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BioWare's MO for their Dragon Age franchise seems to be "take out everything the fans loved about the first game".