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[screwoffreg]

Making enemies of TIM and the Shadow Broker when you should be fighting the Reapers would be a tremendous waste of time. No matter how much Liara may love Shepard and vice versa, a race of thousands, maybe tens of thousands of sentient machines is moving in on the Galaxy. They should use the SB and TIM together to find out more about dark energy and the like rather than destroying them...

In a time of extinction, waging war against powerful potential allies is fruitless.  There will be time to take out the trash IF the Reapers are gone.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 03 mars 2010 - 07:34 .

[Yeled]

screwoffreg wrote...

Making enemies of TIM and the Shadow Broker when you should be fighting the Reapers would be a tremendous waste of time. No matter how much Liara may love Shepard and vice versa, a race of thousands, maybe tens of thousands of sentient machines is moving in on the Galaxy. They should use the SB and TIM together to find out more about dark energy and the like rather than destroying them...

In a time of extinction, waging war against powerful potential allies is fruitless.  There will be time to take out the trash IF the Reapers are gone.

Yes, but you know what else is a waste of time?  Delivering packages for Ish.

Doesn't mean side missions aren't an inherent part of the formula Bioware employs.

[Nozybidaj]

I've already made an enemy of TIM and the SB is already working with the Reapers/Collectors. I expect the Quarians to be the "in" on the dark energy thing since they are the ones already researching it.



If they want to keep the SB and TIM around, I'm okay with that so long as it doesn't impede on Shep getting back together with Liara though I don't want to have to deal with them either if I don't want to, I already had to waste an entire chapter of the trilogy working for Cerberus.

[screwoffreg]

Yeled wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Making enemies of TIM and the Shadow Broker when you should be fighting the Reapers would be a tremendous waste of time. No matter how much Liara may love Shepard and vice versa, a race of thousands, maybe tens of thousands of sentient machines is moving in on the Galaxy. They should use the SB and TIM together to find out more about dark energy and the like rather than destroying them...

In a time of extinction, waging war against powerful potential allies is fruitless.  There will be time to take out the trash IF the Reapers are gone.

Yes, but you know what else is a waste of time?  Delivering packages for Ish.

Doesn't mean side missions aren't an inherent part of the formula Bioware employs.

Ish is over his head.  And plotwise destroying two of the most powerful information brokers/gatherers in the Galaxy would be insane. 

Anyway, the Illusive Man owes me.  I did give him a Collector Base after all .

[Nozybidaj]

screwoffreg wrote...

Anyway, the Illusive Man owes me.  I did give him a Collector Base after all .

Like I said, so long as I don't have to work with him I'm good.  I blew the base up and told TIM to stuff it.  

[ratzerman]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jlb524 wrote...


Good idea.  This would also explain why Liara shakes her head after kissing Shepard.  Liara's being a bad girl, doing something she ought not be doing

It makes it all the more sweet, as even though TIM explicity forbids her from any contact with Shepard, she still can't resist running up to him/her and smooching Shepard. D'awwww, Liara!

Holy crap....... I love this idea!  But, come on...... it's gotta be too good to be true, right?

There's no way the current roster of Bioware writers could come up with something that awesome..... could they?

Modifié par ratzerman, 03 mars 2010 - 07:41 .

[Sakhalin]

Yeah I blew up the base too, TIM can suck it! I don't know what else he said because all I heard was "bull****" on the line. And my second in command resigned from Cerberus. w00t

[Driveninhifi]

It's something I read on another forum, I have no idea if it's true. It does make some sense, especially with how #3 plays out.



It's implied that Feron works for Cerberus. Taz gets away from Feron and Liara at the end of #2 and takes Shepard to the Shadow Broker base. Miranda wants to chase them and The Illusive Man tells her to wait, saying "I've involved assets you aren't aware of" At the end of this issue, Feron says "I should probably tell you who I actually work for..."

This also explains why Feron might still be alive after 2 years - if he does work for Cerberus, the Shadow Broker would definitely try and get as much info out of him as possible.

We know Feron must die/get captured in #4. This leaves the Illusive Man without an agent to watch the Shadow Broker. We also know the Shadow Broker tends to kill people who cross/betray him (Fist in ME1, for example). So it makes sense the SB would put a large bounty on Liara's head. The Illusive Man could easily say "Want to see Shepard again? Work for me and we'll give you resources and protection. But you can't talk to Shepard and distract him from the mission we're giving him. If you do, we'll stop protecting you, and the Shadow Broker will kill you."

It also solves how she would take down the Shadow Broker once she found him: she doesn't have to worry about Cerberus' forces shooting her in the back during the mission.



It's actually a really interesting way to do it: the only other person that could possibly protect her is Shepard....who is currently on a Cerberus ship that staffed with a Cerberus crew. So she's really stuck - she has no choice but to stay silent if she ever wants to be with Shepard again. It still doesn't explain why Shepard can't say anything - but I think that's more a case of the writers trying to hold back than anything else (which is really lame, to be sure)

[Yeled]

ratzerman wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jlb524 wrote...


Good idea.  This would also explain why Liara shakes her head after kissing Shepard.  Liara's being a bad girl, doing something she ought not be doing

It makes it all the more sweet, as even though TIM explicity forbids her from any contact with Shepard, she still can't resist running up to him/her and smooching Shepard. D'awwww, Liara!

Holy crap....... I love this idea!  But, come on...... it's gotta be too good to be true, right?

There's no way the current roster of Bioware writers could come up something that awesome.

I'm skeptical, too.  I'm trying to not be pessimistic, but I also don't want to get my hopes up too high.  Keep an even keel, that's the best way forward.

I hope they do a great job of explaining and justifying everything, and I hope the DLC is everything we all want it to be: expanded romance, more dialogue, etc.  But that just seems to good to be true, as ratzerman said.  Its not going to be everything we want.  I just want it to be as close as possible.

[Nozybidaj]

Driveninhifi wrote...

It's actually a really interesting way to do it: the only other person that could possibly protect her is Shepard....who is currently on a Cerberus ship that staffed with a Cerberus crew. So she's really stuck - she has no choice but to stay silent if she ever wants to be with Shepard again. It still doesn't explain why Shepard can't say anything - but I think that's more a case of the writers trying to hold back than anything else (which is really lame, to be sure)

I agree it could be interesting if a completely contrived excuse for keeping her out of ME2.  I understand TIM wanting to manipulate Liara but why keep her away from Shep?  What purpose would it serve other than to distract Shep if they were in fact LI's?  Wouldn't it make more sense to force her to be a part of the crew?

[Yeled]

Driveninhifi wrote...

It's actually a really interesting way to do it: the only other person that could possibly protect her is Shepard....who is currently on a Cerberus ship that staffed with a Cerberus crew. So she's really stuck - she has no choice but to stay silent if she ever wants to be with Shepard again. It still doesn't explain why Shepard can't say anything - but I think that's more a case of the writers trying to hold back than anything else (which is really lame, to be sure)

Well it does add up.  A better way for them to have kept information back was just have Liara reply she isn't at liberty to speak again if Shep asks her anything.  She does warn shep, of course, but even so we still wanted the opportunity to ask questions.

Then she could have given Shep a non-verbal signal that she still cared for her (or him).  And we'd all have been happy.

[Yeled]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Driveninhifi wrote...

It's actually a really interesting way to do it: the only other person that could possibly protect her is Shepard....who is currently on a Cerberus ship that staffed with a Cerberus crew. So she's really stuck - she has no choice but to stay silent if she ever wants to be with Shepard again. It still doesn't explain why Shepard can't say anything - but I think that's more a case of the writers trying to hold back than anything else (which is really lame, to be sure)

I agree it could be interesting if a completely contrived excuse for keeping her out of ME2.  I understand TIM wanting to manipulate Liara but why keep her away from Shep?  What purpose would it serve other than to distract Shep if they were in fact LI's?  Wouldn't it make more sense to force her to be a part of the crew?

Except TIM considers it a suicide mission, and so does Shep.  Shep might be less willing to take someone he loves with her to their deaths.

'course, that doesn't explain Tali or Garrus, but at least they weren't LIs in the first game.

[Debi-Tage]

Driveninhifi wrote...

It's something I read on another forum, I have no idea if it's true. It does make some sense, especially with how #3 plays out.

It's implied that Feron works for Cerberus. Taz gets away from Feron and Liara at the end of #2 and takes Shepard to the Shadow Broker base. Miranda wants to chase them and The Illusive Man tells her to wait, saying "I've involved assets you aren't aware of" At the end of this issue, Feron says "I should probably tell you who I actually work for..."
This also explains why Feron might still be alive after 2 years - if he does work for Cerberus, the Shadow Broker would definitely try and get as much info out of him as possible.
We know Feron must die/get captured in #4. This leaves the Illusive Man without an agent to watch the Shadow Broker. We also know the Shadow Broker tends to kill people who cross/betray him (Fist in ME1, for example). So it makes sense the SB would put a large bounty on Liara's head. The Illusive Man could easily say "Want to see Shepard again? Work for me and we'll give you resources and protection. But you can't talk to Shepard and distract him from the mission we're giving him. If you do, we'll stop protecting you, and the Shadow Broker will kill you."
It also solves how she would take down the Shadow Broker once she found him: she doesn't have to worry about Cerberus' forces shooting her in the back during the mission.

It's actually a really interesting way to do it: the only other person that could possibly protect her is Shepard....who is currently on a Cerberus ship that staffed with a Cerberus crew. So she's really stuck - she has no choice but to stay silent if she ever wants to be with Shepard again. It still doesn't explain why Shepard can't say anything - but I think that's more a case of the writers trying to hold back than anything else (which is really lame, to be sure)

This especially makes sense to me after reading Redemption #3 (just picked it up)! Liara's behavior is explained with your theory (no emails to Shepard on a Cerberus ship), the pulling away at the reunion greeting for the LI's, and we can finally (hopefully) put down the theory of a Feron/Liara fling once and for all!  Do I seriously have to wait another month for resolution!? Looks like another ME-ME2 playthrough to keep me occupied!

[Nozybidaj]

Yeled wrote...
Except TIM considers it a suicide mission, and so does Shep.  Shep might be less willing to take someone he loves with her to their deaths.

'course, that doesn't explain Tali or Garrus, but at least they weren't LIs in the first game.

Shep never considered it a suicide mission.  In fact there are several instances where he says "I plan to live".  As for TIM sending Liara to the suicide mission would be a good way to tie up loose ends.

[Shadowcat101]

screwoffreg wrote...

So the Shadow Broker and TIM are very similiar I imagine. The Shadow Broker is probably Chaotic Neutral and TIM Lawful Evil.

I think the shadow broker IS TIM. I’m sure other people have said this. When you talk to him about Liara, he has little to say and just says “she is working for the shadow broker, and can’t be trusted.”

But as we find out later, Liara is looking to hunt down the shadow broker. So TIM lied to shepherd.  Also TIM is always going on about how his business in information, like the shadow broker. So why would he have bad intell on who Liara is working for? Unless something happened between them, making TIM hate Liara.

The only bit that does not fit is why would liara have to steal shepherd’s bodys from the shadow broker (TIM), to only give it back to him?  

My best guess to this is different Cerberus cells doing different things…

Guess we’ll find out in ME3

Modifié par Shadowcat101, 03 mars 2010 - 07:58 .

[Yeled]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Yeled wrote...
Except TIM considers it a suicide mission, and so does Shep.  Shep might be less willing to take someone he loves with her to their deaths.

'course, that doesn't explain Tali or Garrus, but at least they weren't LIs in the first game.

Shep never considered it a suicide mission.  In fact there are several instances where he says "I plan to live".  As for TIM sending Liara to the suicide mission would be a good way to tie up loose ends.

I suppose you're right.  In fact I always picked those "I intend to live/we'll get through it" options, so you'd think I'd know that.

[vigna]

Driveninhifi wrote...

It's something I read on another forum, I have no idea if it's true. It does make some sense, especially with how #3 plays out.

It's implied that Feron works for Cerberus. Taz gets away from Feron and Liara at the end of #2 and takes Shepard to the Shadow Broker base. Miranda wants to chase them and The Illusive Man tells her to wait, saying "I've involved assets you aren't aware of" At the end of this issue, Feron says "I should probably tell you who I actually work for..."
This also explains why Feron might still be alive after 2 years - if he does work for Cerberus, the Shadow Broker would definitely try and get as much info out of him as possible.
We know Feron must die/get captured in #4. This leaves the Illusive Man without an agent to watch the Shadow Broker. We also know the Shadow Broker tends to kill people who cross/betray him (Fist in ME1, for example). So it makes sense the SB would put a large bounty on Liara's head. The Illusive Man could easily say "Want to see Shepard again? Work for me and we'll give you resources and protection. But you can't talk to Shepard and distract him from the mission we're giving him. If you do, we'll stop protecting you, and the Shadow Broker will kill you."
It also solves how she would take down the Shadow Broker once she found him: she doesn't have to worry about Cerberus' forces shooting her in the back during the mission.

It's actually a really interesting way to do it: the only other person that could possibly protect her is Shepard....who is currently on a Cerberus ship that staffed with a Cerberus crew. So she's really stuck - she has no choice but to stay silent if she ever wants to be with Shepard again. It still doesn't explain why Shepard can't say anything - but I think that's more a case of the writers trying to hold back than anything else (which is really lame, to be sure)

This is probably the best case scenario that Liara fans could get. It makes sense, and is plausible (even if contrived).
This also means that liara and Shep are the most star-crossed lovers ever....

[Sakhalin]

Shadowcat101 wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

So the Shadow Broker and TIM are very similiar I imagine. The Shadow Broker is probably Chaotic Neutral and TIM Lawful Evil.

I think the shadow broker IS TIM. I’m sure other people have said this. When you talk to him about Liara, he has little to say and just says “she is working for the shadow broker, and can’t be trusted.”

But as we find out later, Liara is looking to hunt down the shadow broker. So TIM lied to shepherd.  Also TIM is always going on about how his business in information, like the shadow broker. So why would he have bad intell on who Liara is working for? Unless something happened between them, making TIM hate Liara.

The only bit that does not fit is why would liara have to steal shepherd’s bodys from the shadow broker (TIM), to only give it back to him?  

My best guess to this is different Cerberus cells doing different things…

Guess we’ll find out in ME3

But why would TIM (Shadow broker) sell Shepard to the Collectors when TIM wanted the body in the first place?  Maybe he has a split personality disorder, lol!

[bjdbwea]

And if Shepard indeed thought the mission might kill everyone, therefore certainly not wanting to take Liara along, it makes even less sense that he would not say anything to her. He couldn't say anything aboard the Normandy anymore, surely he would know better this time. No way how you want to spin this, there's no plausible explanation for Shepard just sitting there like an idiot. Except a) TIM forced him to do so too, then we as players would have to be shown it. Or they did implant some chip after all that makes him unable to do so. This could still be revealed later, but it would be just... very, very, very lame.

[Driveninhifi]

Nozybidaj wrote...
I agree it could be interesting if a completely contrived excuse for keeping her out of ME2.  I understand TIM wanting to manipulate Liara but why keep her away from Shep?  What purpose would it serve other than to distract Shep if they were in fact LI's?  Wouldn't it make more sense to force her to be a part of the crew?

Well, yeah. I mean, the reasons Ash/Kaidan don't join up are even more contrived when you think about it. They know colonies are disappearing, just actually saw one get destroyed and saw Shepard wipe the floor with nasty aliens. Kind of hard to believe they'd ignore that just because they don't like Cerberus, especially since Tali and Garrus get over it so fast (and Tali of all people has the best reason to hate Cerberus).

We know the Illusive Man is a manipulative jerk. And he needs someone watching the Shadow Broker, so he needs Liara to stay off the Normandy. She's also got access to a lot of information and resources - possibly things that incriminate Cerberus. If Shepard turns against Cerberus (which I did at the endgame), she joins Shepard and gave those resources to him/her, then the Illusive Man has an even more powerful enemy to contend with.

Think about it: Miranda is the most loyal and trusted Cerberus operative. She spends a couple months with Shepard and is ready to throw her entire life away to follow him/her. An enemy that can command that kind of loyalty, in addition to being as ridiculously good at fighting as Shepard would be dangerous even for TIM.

I do hope we get to work him over in ME3, with the option of either turning him into the Alliance (which he probably has plants in), the Council (who will probably just execute him) or just shooting him in the face.

[Driveninhifi]

bjdbwea wrote...

And if Shepard indeed thought the mission might kill everyone, therefore certainly not wanting to take Liara along, it makes even less sense that he would not say anything to her. He couldn't say anything aboard the Normandy anymore, surely he would know better this time. No way how you want to spin this, there's no plausible explanation for Shepard just sitting there like an idiot. Except a) TIM forced him to do so too, then we as players would have to be shown it. Or they did implant some chip after all that makes him unable to do so. This could still be revealed later, but it would be just... very, very, very lame.

Really, it's most likely a combination of a) running out of development time not wanting to spoil the comics and c) wanting the leave the player in the dark so they go to the new love interests.
It is pretty lame, and totally unrealistic. The head shake may have been the animators trying to have her imply they can't talk about "THEM" but I think it's too subtle. There needed to be some very obvious reason why Shepard cannot talk about their relationship, or at least have her tell Shepard to come back alive.