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[screwoffreg]

I wonder if you support Cerebrus if the Illusive Man takes control over the Alliance and basically becomes a de facto leader/emperor. That would be a wild ending in itself.

[Nozybidaj]

Yeled wrote...
Stinkin' timeline!

Ok, I am now going to spend some time putting down what, in my opinion, the dlc should contain.  And maybe what it shouldn't contain.

First, I don't want to play as Liara.  I want to remain comfortably in Shep's shoes.  While I kinda liked the Joker scene in ME2, I have to admit it was immersion breaking when I became shep again.  So I don't want side missions that involve Liara but not Shep.

I don't want the dlc to occur before Omega 4.  I already played through my main shep story, and don't want to have to go back to play the dlc and then replay the ending again.  Also, I want to deal with Liara without the weight of the collectors and the suicide mission resting on my shoulders.  I want that storyline over and done with.

I want there to be significant dialogue that expands on Liara as a character.  I don't want to have a quick conversation that leads to a fighting mission.  I want depth, people!  Depth and storytelling.

I want a continuation of the romance for those who romanced Liara, but I also want an option for those who didn't romance her to pick up the romance (the more on our side the better for ME3), as well as an option for people to bond strongly with her even if they don't romance her.  I didn't care for the fact that, since I remained faithful to Liara, I couldn't talk to the other characters after a certain point.  I'd like other players who didn't romance Liara to be able to grow attached.

I would like a really well done love scene to be included, but it need not be all hot and sexy (ala Miranda and the engine room).  I'd like it to depict a deepening relationship rather than a new one.  Presumably shep and liara have gone at it more than once at this point (they were in space together for months before shep was killed), and so now we should see how they are deeply bonded rather than just passionate.

I'd like the dlc to deal with the shadowbroker and, in so doing, somehow lead directly into ME3.  Make the content optional but really significant to the main story.  Perhaps the SB has information that is crucial to the reaper threat.  Let's see that play out.

I'd like the dlc to end with the romance moving forward, and with the clear impression that Liara is now a permanent part of your crew, setting things up for ME3 (yeah, I know...good luck with that).


*breaths*  Ok, I know...long post with me just spewing thoughts down.  Sorry 'bout that.  I'm sure I'll come up with more, but I need a breather.

That's pretty much my requirements for what the expansion needs to include as well.

[Yeled]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Yeled wrote...
*snip*

*breaths*  Ok, I know...long post with me just spewing thoughts down.  Sorry 'bout that.  I'm sure I'll come up with more, but I need a breather.

That's pretty much my requirements for what the expansion needs to include as well.

Yeah, except I think that's mostly wishful thinking on my part.

[Debi-Tage]

Well, the good news is that for Liara LI's, Feron is/never was a threat (unless something very extreme and out of context happens in Redemption #4). Also, throughout the comics Liara is ONLY concerned with Shepard, everything else appears secondary to her main objective, you. In the last pages she has a biotic freakout on the fake SB AI-thingy and destroys the whole room out of anger over what all of these special interests are doing to her and Shepard. This even works for non-LI's because just because Shepard doesn't reciprocate doesn't mean she didn't have a strong friendship with or crush on Shepard up until his/her death. I feel like the whole incident really made her grow in many ways, and firmly believe all of her actions still revolve around protecting Shepard in some way (because she knows what is going on, you don't) so she assumes a lesser role in his/her life for now (ME2).
Liara has a strong sense of duty that makes her character appear aloof at times. Look at ME before Illos, even though it is very obvious (for the LI's) that she is nuts over Shepard, she says that you and her need to concentrate on the mission to destroy Saren. It is not until the very last moment that she approaches you to show her feelings. In ME2 this is the same moment that Shepard has nothing to comfort him/her but a photo of Liara. This is what is so unsettling and annoying for me, but at least we have some kind of confirmation that Shepard is still allowed to feel something for her. For now duty comes first.

Not making excuses for the lameness of the reunion dialog, however.

[Driveninhifi]

screwoffreg wrote...

The whole Liara working for Cerberus thing kind of falls apart a bit though as it doesn't make any damn sense for TIM to want to keep Liara THAT far away from you really. He doesn't seem to mind you fraternize with the crew, so its not about relationships. Maybe he really is conflicted about how much Liara knows and if he can trust her himself. Liara, as Shepard's crewmate and possible lover, is a powerful connection to the Commander. This connection could be used by anyone..the Shadow Broker, Collectors, Reapers, TIM, ALliance, COuncil etc...TIM may assume that Liara may try to get over on him.

Or maybe Liara is just simply being used by both, or a lot of people. She may serve as a tragic figure who ultimately was just a pawn in a far bigger game. Remember, the Shadow Broker is probably very old, or at least his organization is. TIM is influential as well. They aren't likely to be seriously threatened by one information broker..only in so far as she could use her connection to Shepard to be valuable for their purposes.

If she is actually working for Cerberus, then yes, I think she is definitely being used by both. Perhaps she's just a feint by TIM to keep the Shadow Broker busy? She could basically be bait - the SB thinks he can spy on her and extract info about Cerberus and TIM can work behind the scenes.

On some level, it makes sense that TIM would want Liara to stay away from Shepard - especially if she has access to information. It makes MUCH more sense for him to want her to stay away if they were lovers, as that would be a big distraction. I'm sure he doesn't trust her - why would he? She's proven that her only loyalties are to Shepard.
Though I agree it's not super logical once you think about it, but it's a better explanation for her behavior than we've been given so far. Like I mentioned before, the reasons Ash/Kaidan are kept out of the party are pretty contrived as well - at least we know TIM is a jerk.

Being put in this situation would explain a lot about her anger though. Being in debt to Cerberus has got to really suck; you know they have no qualms with using you. Imagine being stuck, not able to talk to the person you've been waiting to see for two years. You'd definitely want to get rid of the Shadow Broker as fast as possible so you can move on with your life.
Although, thus far in the comics the Shadow Broker hasn't done anything especially nasty to Liara herself (other than sell the body), so the amount of anger she shows in ME2 seems overdone without a situation like the one we're discussing.

[Raanz]

Debi-Tage wrote...

Well, the good news is that for Liara LI's, Feron is/never was a threat (unless something very extreme and out of context happens in Redemption #4). Also, throughout the comics Liara is ONLY concerned with Shepard, everything else appears secondary to her main objective, you. In the last pages she has a biotic freakout on the fake SB AI-thingy and destroys the whole room out of anger over what all of these special interests are doing to her and Shepard. This even works for non-LI's because just because Shepard doesn't reciprocate doesn't mean she didn't have a strong friendship with or crush on Shepard up until his/her death. I feel like the whole incident really made her grow in many ways, and firmly believe all of her actions still revolve around protecting Shepard in some way (because she knows what is going on, you don't) so she assumes a lesser role in his/her life for now (ME2).
Liara has a strong sense of duty that makes her character appear aloof at times. Look at ME before Illos, even though it is very obvious (for the LI's) that she is nuts over Shepard, she says that you and her need to concentrate on the mission to destroy Saren. It is not until the very last moment that she approaches you to show her feelings. In ME2 this is the same moment that Shepard has nothing to comfort him/her but a photo of Liara. This is what is so unsettling and annoying for me, but at least we have some kind of confirmation that Shepard is still allowed to feel something for her. For now duty comes first.

Not making excuses for the lameness of the reunion dialog, however.

Yeah.   Even if you do not take her as a LI, she obviously is infatuated with Shepard in ME1.  Shepard's ability to receive the Prothean transmission and not lose his/her mind for one thing.  She spent most of her adolesent life studying them, so Shepard becomes a facination for her.  She "melded" with Shepard twice (if not a LI, 3 times if you were), by her own admission, this act is a very personal thing.
Like I said before, Liara is drawn to Shepard in the story, much like Tali was drawn to him, even upping the stakes in ME2 to basically come out and say "jeesh, I have a huge crush on you" type of thing.  I wonder if Garrus does the same thing for FemSheps...I have never played a femShep all the way through.
I really think her role is bigger then what some folks fear it might be (trivial).

[AndroLeonidas]

Debi-Tage wrote...

Well, the good news is that for Liara LI's, Feron is/never was a threat (unless something very extreme and out of context happens in Redemption #4). Also, throughout the comics Liara is ONLY concerned with Shepard, everything else appears secondary to her main objective, you. In the last pages she has a biotic freakout on the fake SB AI-thingy and destroys the whole room out of anger over what all of these special interests are doing to her and Shepard. This even works for non-LI's because just because Shepard doesn't reciprocate doesn't mean she didn't have a strong friendship with or crush on Shepard up until his/her death. I feel like the whole incident really made her grow in many ways, and firmly believe all of her actions still revolve around protecting Shepard in some way (because she knows what is going on, you don't) so she assumes a lesser role in his/her life for now (ME2).
Liara has a strong sense of duty that makes her character appear aloof at times. Look at ME before Illos, even though it is very obvious (for the LI's) that she is nuts over Shepard, she says that you and her need to concentrate on the mission to destroy Saren. It is not until the very last moment that she approaches you to show her feelings. In ME2 this is the same moment that Shepard has nothing to comfort him/her but a photo of Liara. This is what is so unsettling and annoying for me, but at least we have some kind of confirmation that Shepard is still allowed to feel something for her. For now duty comes first.

Not making excuses for the lameness of the reunion dialog, however.

Whew! That was a concern of mine. I have pre-ordered the comics but haven't gotten them yet. I pre-ordered last week... shouldn't I have the thing now??

[screwoffreg]

Garrus is really taken aback as he basically says he isn't attracted to humans, but he trusts Shepard.



Tali has a huge girl crush. Liara falls in love with you EVEN if you don't want her to. Miranda wants to have sex with you in public and Kelly dances like a stripper despite being a psychologist. Shepard has these ladies on lock!

[Raanz]

Driveninhifi wrote...
Though I agree it's not super logical once you think about it, but it's a better explanation for her behavior than we've been given so far. Like I mentioned before, the reasons Ash/Kaidan are kept out of the party are pretty contrived as well - at least we know TIM is a jerk.

Ash/Kaiden are different though.  Aside from the LI, they have very little to do with progressing the story.  Now, if they are LI in your saved game, then I think they will have a minor influence on a much bigger decision in ME3.  Liara on the other hand, is quite intrical to the story.  She is a major player even if she isn't a LI.  Remember, Ash and Kaiden are both susceptible to dying.  Liara is not...she will be in 3, no matter how you played in regards to her.

[Nozybidaj]

screwoffreg wrote...

Garrus is really taken aback as he basically says he isn't attracted to humans, but he trusts Shepard.

Tali has a huge girl crush. Liara falls in love with you EVEN if you don't want her to. Miranda wants to have sex with you in public and Kelly dances like a stripper despite being a psychologist. Shepard has these ladies on lock!

That's a pretty good run down.  As for Kelly, how did you think she put herself through college?

[screwoffreg]

Nozybidaj wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Garrus is really taken aback as he basically says he isn't attracted to humans, but he trusts Shepard.

Tali has a huge girl crush. Liara falls in love with you EVEN if you don't want her to. Miranda wants to have sex with you in public and Kelly dances like a stripper despite being a psychologist. Shepard has these ladies on lock!

That's a pretty good run down.  As for Kelly, how did you think she put herself through college?

I guess socialist free education never takes place in the future!  Poor Kelly...it is funny how eager she is to like you.

[Driveninhifi]

On the DLC:

Really, it needs to have elements of Jack and Garrus' loyalty missions. Jack constantly remarks on the base, and you can ask her specific things. They could fill in what happened in the comics for Liara via a similar mechanism.

Garrus' loyalty mission really lets you impact his character. You can encourage him to kill Sidonius (sp?) or you can talk him down and tell him "This isn't you." It's quite well done. I can't imagine they wouldn't include similar options for Liara, especially if she's the love interest. Now, her motivations are different if she's just going for revenge on her own as opposed to working for Cerberus. But a similar option needs to be there. A problem with this is that the Shadow Broker probably needs to be killed in general; it's not like Garrus' mission where leaving Sidonius alive is undoubtedly the 'just' thing to do. Leaving the Shadow Broker alive possibly leaves a powerful enemy to come back to bite you.



If you told TIM to go copulate himself, then Liara doesn't need Cerberus anymore and can join up immediately. It may still be prudent to confront the Shadow Broker, however. And you'd probably want to help out Feron, unless your Shepard is a total jerk.



As for romance, I think it definitely has to come up, and they need a fairly intense reunion of some kind. It would be more interesting to me to show a mature, close relationship - I agree with Yeled there. They've already consummated their love (and as Yeled said, they likely spent a whole lot of time in the captain's cabin during the month after the Citadel fight), so there's no need to do the initial phase again. They've taken a lot of influence from Farscape and I think John and Aeryn show a pretty realistic, loving relationship during the times they are actually "together." Wouldn't be too surprised to see something similar.

[Nozybidaj]

screwoffreg wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Garrus is really taken aback as he basically says he isn't attracted to humans, but he trusts Shepard.

Tali has a huge girl crush. Liara falls in love with you EVEN if you don't want her to. Miranda wants to have sex with you in public and Kelly dances like a stripper despite being a psychologist. Shepard has these ladies on lock!

That's a pretty good run down.  As for Kelly, how did you think she put herself through college?

I guess socialist free education never takes place in the future!  Poor Kelly...it is funny how eager she is to like you.

I really liked Kelly till the whole scale-itch thing came up.

[Driveninhifi]

screwoffreg wrote...

Garrus is really taken aback as he basically says he isn't attracted to humans, but he trusts Shepard.

Tali has a huge girl crush. Liara falls in love with you EVEN if you don't want her to. Miranda wants to have sex with you in public and Kelly dances like a stripper despite being a psychologist. Shepard has these ladies on lock!

I'm really curious how the Garrus/Shepard tryst even works. Do they ever explain Turian biology, other than Mordin advising Shepard not to swallow?

Shepard can even get the 1000 year old Asari Justicar to fall in love with him/her. You can get her to admit "I've never met anyone like you....I can't believe someone so young could touch me.....I could find more than happiness with you....I wish we'd met in another time and life...." and so on. 

I'd love to see Liara's reaction to coming back on the Normandy. "Shepard, you realize every woman on this ship is in love with you, right?"

[Nozybidaj]

Driveninhifi wrote...
 A problem with this is that the Shadow Broker probably needs to be killed in general; it's not like Garrus' mission where leaving Sidonius alive is undoubtedly the 'just' thing to do. Leaving the Shadow Broker alive possibly leaves a powerful enemy to come back to bite you.

Maybe Shep uses a little misdirection, show him TIM is the real enemy, not Liara.  Take care of two birds with one stone.  Start the SB down the track after TIM with the Cerberus data you collected in the N7 mission and let the two of them kill each other off, or at least battle and weaken each other and keep them occupied while you go save the galaxy, again.

Of coures this is only required if you persuade Liara to let go of her vendetta.  Otherwise either you or her just put a bullet in him.

[vigna]

Driveninhifi wrote...

On the DLC:
Really, it needs to have elements of Jack and Garrus' loyalty missions. Jack constantly remarks on the base, and you can ask her specific things. They could fill in what happened in the comics for Liara via a similar mechanism.
Garrus' loyalty mission really lets you impact his character. You can encourage him to kill Sidonius (sp?) or you can talk him down and tell him "This isn't you." It's quite well done. I can't imagine they wouldn't include similar options for Liara, especially if she's the love interest. Now, her motivations are different if she's just going for revenge on her own as opposed to working for Cerberus. But a similar option needs to be there. A problem with this is that the Shadow Broker probably needs to be killed in general; it's not like Garrus' mission where leaving Sidonius alive is undoubtedly the 'just' thing to do. Leaving the Shadow Broker alive possibly leaves a powerful enemy to come back to bite you.

If you told TIM to go copulate himself, then Liara doesn't need Cerberus anymore and can join up immediately. It may still be prudent to confront the Shadow Broker, however. And you'd probably want to help out Feron, unless your Shepard is a total jerk.

As for romance, I think it definitely has to come up, and they need a fairly intense reunion of some kind. It would be more interesting to me to show a mature, close relationship - I agree with Yeled there. They've already consummated their love (and as Yeled said, they likely spent a whole lot of time in the captain's cabin during the month after the Citadel fight), so there's no need to do the initial phase again. They've taken a lot of influence from Farscape and I think John and Aeryn show a pretty realistic, loving relationship during the times they are actually "together." Wouldn't be too surprised to see something similar.

You had me at Farscape!

[screwoffreg]

Liara is going to have a hell of a lot of competition. The girls on ME 2 don't play. Jack, Tali, Kelly, Miranda? Hell, throw Ashley in the mix too if you want.

[jlb524]

screwoffreg wrote...

Liara is going to have a hell of a lot of competition. The girls on ME 2 don't play. Jack, Tali, Kelly, Miranda? Hell, throw Ashley in the mix too if you want.

Hmmph!  No competition there. 

[Nozybidaj]

Driveninhifi wrote...
I'd love to see Liara's reaction to coming back on the Normandy. "Shepard, you realize every woman on this ship is in love with you, right?"

Hehe, Shep could just play it off  "Really? I never noticed, what with all the time I spend alone in my cabin.  Here let me show you."

[Nozybidaj]

jlb524 wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Liara is going to have a hell of a lot of competition. The girls on ME 2 don't play. Jack, Tali, Kelly, Miranda? Hell, throw Ashley in the mix too if you want.

Hmmph!  No competition there. 

Yeah, one word out of their mouths and its the airlock for them.

[vigna]

My femshep is in dire need of Liara.....

[Debi-Tage]

AndroLeonidas

I hope you get them soon! I still don't have #1 as it is sold out everywhere. It's fun to see what she was up to and her motivations, the drell on the other hand likes to flirt with her...grrr!



No doubt everyone really loves or really hates Shepard. I love that you can stick it to TIM at the end of the game and run off with his ship and his crew (or can you!?). I am really curious though to find out whether or not the data that Feron downloaded during Liara's SB confrontation is now in Liara's hands, or if the SB now has it (when they captured Feron) and now both Liara and Cerberus are trying to get it back. Maybe this has something to do with the debt Liara says she needs to repay? Maybe she used it as collatoral for you somehow, making Cerberus rebuild you without altering you (I have wondered why that would be so important to TIM, being such an a** and all). As an asari who has melded with you, I assuming she would be able to tell if you were not you in some way. Now the both of you are being used as pawns and the only one who can fix it is Shepard, who at this point is clueless as to everything that happened while he/she was "asleep".

[Corti78]

vigna wrote...

My femshep is in dire need of Liara.....

Definitely. My main femshep is so lonely in ME2

[Driveninhifi]

screwoffreg wrote...

Liara is going to have a hell of a lot of competition. The girls on ME 2 don't play. Jack, Tali, Kelly, Miranda? Hell, throw Ashley in the mix too if you want.

I really, really, really want to see Jack's reaction if you leave her for your previous love interest. That's got to end very badly. And very violently.
It's really very screwed up though. Literally the only person she feels has ever cared about her, dumping her? KILL!