50907 réponses à ce sujet

[JaylaClark]

Okay, posted my entire two cents about Liara to date in the comic thread... including the strange fact that I liked what I got out of the ending of Redemption (and claiming it might be due to my strange perspectives on life) but that they botched a full half of their job by having her dark and edgy to start.

And I fully agree with this point, not sure who said it -- I want GOOD Liara DLC or NO Liara DLC.  I'm one of those still-hopeful people who think they can make it clear that Liara's still our Liara, or explain more fully what happened to make her darker-Liara, but they have to make the effort to do so.  They're still capable of doing that -- some of the loyalty quests, especially Tali's, confirms that to my eyes -- but they have also showed a lot of laziness in that regard.

I'm just about done ranting at BioWare for this, though.  I'll just continue to play ME1 and Dragon Age until something decent comes along, and in the meantime, I'm voting with my 'Loyalty Achievement', but until someone answers questions -- hmm.  Wait, did they ever do a Mass Effect 2 post-game interview with Game Informer?  Or did they forego that.

[IndigoWolfe]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

We were talking about theme songs for Shepard and Liara a while back (I call 'em Lepard!), and I don't believe anyone linked to these, which I find very evocative of the pair.

Greater Lights

Awake And Alive - Skillet (Well, kinda. Far less in a romantic light then characters personalities. Paragon Shepard at least, or maybe Renegon.

My Hands - Leona Lewis

Bring Me To Life - Evenescence (Basically, Mass Effect Redemption's theme song.)

And my personal, absolute favorite:

I See You - Leona Lewis (Yes, Lewis again)

I See You makes me think of Shepard and Liara. Every. Single. Time.

Oh right, and I forgot

Frozen - Within Temptation

For the sad aspects of the Shepard/Liara romance.

Modifié par IndigoWolfe, 12 mai 2010 - 04:45 .

[LiquidGrape]

To convey my impressions of Redemption.



The development I had in mind for Liara went something like this:



What we got was more along these lines:

[screwoffreg]

Hey, at least Xena had Gabrielle.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Liara wasnt meant to "develop" in the comic really, she was meant to "biotically blow stuff up and doesnt afraid of anything", with some minor grief over Shepard and some MAJOR grief over Feron.



Just like she doesnt develop in the game because she wasnt supposed to. She was supposed to fulfill a crappy 10 minute cameo and not be any further problem, so that attention could supposedly shift back to the crappy new expendable squad.

[Noxis6]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Liara wasnt meant to "develop" in the comic really, she was meant to "biotically blow stuff up and doesnt afraid of anything", with some minor grief over Shepard and some MAJOR grief over Feron.

Just like she doesnt develop in the game because she wasnt supposed to. She was supposed to fulfill a crappy 10 minute cameo and not be any further problem, so that attention could supposedly shift back to the crappy new expendable squad.

Dont forget the anger managment issues in the comic:whistle:

But seriously personally I'm absolutely no fan of the new Liara,but I could at least bear with it if there was some explaination which as we all know there is none
Feron appearence in the comics wasnt sympathetic at all and how he suddenly went from the jerk that screwed Liara at every possibility to the best friend she ever had was just unbelievable
Same goes with her rise to power on Illium,it just doesnt fit,how can she go from what she was in ME1 to this,the way its presented doesnt help either to me it feels like she landed on Illium walked into an empty office sat down and yelled out "I'm an informantion broker!"
There have to be other brokers on Illium,that are in the game far longer then her and they just let new competition just walk in
And the biggest Issue of all why doesnt the SB do anything,Liara just messed up his best deal and he doesnt care,frankly it would have been more realistic if Liara would have been on the run from Bounty Hunters in ME2 because the SB put a large bounty on her head

[Goodwood]

Goodwood generally regards comic books to be a somewhat shallow medium at best, which is why he does not really read them very much. He admits that there are some exceptions, but they tend to be rare, and generally last a heck of a lot longer than four measly issues. That said, he didn't really think Redemption was all that special, and hasn't even read the fourth issue -- most certainly he didn't shell out actual coin of the realm for hard copies, or even electronical ones.



Goodwood would like to register his general astonishment that Redemption is as popular as it has turned out to be. Oh, and he also wants it to be known that he likes that Evanessence song "Bring Me Back to Life" as well as "Missing" -- both would be good for Liara and Shepard.

[Nozybidaj]

Noxis6 wrote...
..snips abound.....
Feron appearence in the comics wasnt sympathetic at all and how he suddenly went from the jerk that screwed Liara at every possibility to the best friend she ever had was just unbelievable
Same goes with her rise to power on Illium,it just doesnt fit,how can she go from what she was in ME1 to this,...
And the biggest Issue of all why doesnt the SB do anything,

Step #1  Steal Underpants
Step #2  ???
Step #3  Profit

That's how.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Noxis6 wrote...
Dont forget the anger managment issues in the comic:whistle:

But seriously personally I'm absolutely no fan of the new Liara,but I could at least bear with it if there was some explaination which as we all know there is none
Feron appearence in the comics wasnt sympathetic at all and how he suddenly went from the jerk that screwed Liara at every possibility to the best friend she ever had was just unbelievable
Same goes with her rise to power on Illium,it just doesnt fit,how can she go from what she was in ME1 to this,the way its presented doesnt help either to me it feels like she landed on Illium walked into an empty office sat down and yelled out "I'm an informantion broker!"
There have to be other brokers on Illium,that are in the game far longer then her and they just let new competition just walk in
And the biggest Issue of all why doesnt the SB do anything,Liara just messed up his best deal and he doesnt care,frankly it would have been more realistic if Liara would have been on the run from Bounty Hunters in ME2 because the SB put a large bounty on her head

Ultimately the reason I hate Liaras ME2 role, comic book and all, is because its absolutely devoid of any kind of progression (where you enjoy the journey). Its just an extremely poorly executed picking up of the Liara character placing it just where they want it.

I can only hope they return to moving the character naturally again to try and clean up the whole mess (like some shock reveal about the SB that puts Liaras crusade again him into a more favourable position, rather than an insane vendetta over almost nothing).

I doubt it though. Somehow I imagine Liara will be upgraded from "pathetic excuse of a cameo designed to keep her out of the game in any significant fashion" to "minor-to-medium supporting NPC role designed to keep her out of the game in any significant fashion".

[Goodwood]

Goodwood agrees with the assertion that Liara's transition was rather jarring and not fitting at all with her character, and hopes, as others do, that an acceptable backstory will be imparted via DLCs and/or an expansion pack (a nice, big expansion pack set after the suicide mission, that deals with Liara, the Virmire survivor, and the Council/Alliance/Cerberus would be ideal).



Goodwood would like to make it known that, while he agrees with the majority in that BioWare either missed a golden opportunity or just didn't have the time/wherewithal to follow up on and do a proper job of making Liara who she is in ME2, Goodwood does get just a bit tiresome of hearing the same stuff over and over again. That is why he puts forth such questions as "What would be Liara and Shepard's love song?" and makes up his own stories, e-mails, and scenes to share with his fellow Liara fans.



Goodwood hopes that this will not be taken in the wrong way...

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

What's even more frustrating is if the original ME2 opening with Legion and Liara working together to steal Shepard's corpse from the Shadow Broker was in fact true, then they could have tailor made those scenes to each player's individual Shepard, and even provide romance content for Liara if she was your LI in the form of comments or actions on her behalf. In fact, I believe I read that it would serve as the "catch-up" part of the game, in which players would be reminded of your choices in ME1 via Liara telling Legion what had happened.

Instead, we get the vague and romance neutral Redemption that has to be able to fit into the story of every player's individual Shepard. This important storyline for a core character should have been explored in-game.

Where did you hear the Legion and Liara part? I haven't heard that one before.

Anyways, read some of the interviews. It seems Miller is a fan, and has played Mass Effect, but still did what he did, and got approval over it.

"Mac provided an outline for the events of the story that integrated with what he and Bioware had planned for the game. With that heavy-lifting work done, I worked the story into comics form, adjusting or adding sequences as needed to suit the flow of the format. We communicated about everything -- Mac making sure anything I did fit the Bioware vision for the series, me getting everything to fit comics storytelling conventions."

So blame Mac for approving this, since it fits Bioware's vision.

Anyways, about the neutral thing, it probably why Mass Effect can't work as a comic, because you have to write it as "They know Shepard..." and can't go into any more detail. Shepard could have hated her. Shepard could have loved her. Shepard could have just wanted to be friends. Shepard could have been a he or a she. etc. The only way they could do it is to make prequel to the first game, because then it involves details that can't be changed.

[Nozybidaj]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

I doubt it though. Somehow I imagine Liara will be upgraded from "pathetic excuse of a cameo designed to keep her out of the game in any significant fashion" to "minor-to-medium supporting NPC role designed to keep her out of the game in any significant fashion".

To be fair though, I expect that to happen to all the characters who may be alive in any particular person's game up to this point.  Not just Liara.

[Marcin K]

i guess it's pic time:

[Goodwood]

Goodwood knew that this would be a bad idea, bringing Mass Effect into the comic book world. He didn't expect much going in.

[Noxis6]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Here, have a read of this:

http://www.neoseeker...inal-beginning/

Through cutting it out, both Legion and Liara's characters suffer badly in ME2.

Personally I think the biggest problem with Legion is that his "recruitment" mission triggers the more or less needless crew abduction,that really screws him big time

[screwoffreg]

Noxis6 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Here, have a read of this:

http://www.neoseeker...inal-beginning/

Through cutting it out, both Legion and Liara's characters suffer badly in ME2.

Personally I think the biggest problem with Legion is that his "recruitment" mission triggers the more or less needless crew abduction,that really screws him big time

I have heard multiple supposed "official" sources that have said the above is true and those that say it is not true.  Either way, Legion AND Tali's role were pretty clearly marginalized because of how late they can be recruited.  The fact they have lines as far back as Omega shows they probably were intended to have an earlier squad start date.

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Where did you hear the Legion and Liara part? I haven't heard that one before.

Here, have a read of this:

http://www.neoseeker...inal-beginning/

Through cutting it out, both Legion and Liara's characters suffer badly in ME2.

Wow, that's a very interesting way to start the game, though I agree it might be way too weird for Liara to suddenly start working with a Geth, and even explain Shepard's history to him. Also, this still doesn't give a good reason for Liara's behavior on Illium (unless they had a different idea for that as well), so I still prefer what we got instead, even if it is pretty lame. But still would have liked to get that opening in some way.

[Goodwood]

Goodwood has asked about this, and tested it for himself. It is possible to get Legion and do two loyalty missions, (Tali's, then Legion's, were his choices) before the IFF incident is triggered. It may be possible to get Legion, then do two recruitment missions before the crew is abducted, but Goodwood cannot know for certain, as he has not tested this.

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Noxis6 wrote...

Personally I think the biggest problem with Legion is that his "recruitment" mission triggers the more or less needless crew abduction,that really screws him big time

Yep. We've been over how Liara's character suffers many a time in this thread, but Legion feels very tacked on in ME2. You generally don't recruit him until you're on the cusp of completely the game, so consequently it feels like he's only part of the squad very briefly.

Yeah, very true. You never get a chance to see him as part of the family, because he's only available during the last moments of the game. Lucky for him being overwhelmingly cool and interesting saves him, though you wish you knew him longer.

[mmmu]

My girlfriend just uploaded a drawing she did starring our very much beloved blue beauty Liara!
The picture is available at the deviantart site, go have a look!



http://viannaverena....soni-163810240 
^ Click the link for a larger version !! 

Modifié par mmmu, 12 mai 2010 - 06:03 .