50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Driveninhifi]

justinnstuff wrote...
Yeah I have to agree with you here. I also think we won't see full fledged angering moments in the comic. I don't know what they could possibly toss at us that wraps all of that up in one issue. All the comics so far are brief.

They have to explain it in the last issue though. She says she started this obsession when she "had a run in with the shadow broker shortly after your death" - which is obviously the recovery of the body. To fit the timeline, this must also be when Feron is captured/killed. So whatever happens to make her hate the Shadow Broker that much must happen in the next issue. Feron alone isn't a good explanation; she barely knows him, and through 3 issues she doesn't even really like him - she's just using him to get Shepard back.
it's really got to hinge on Shepard - or she has to be forced into it. It would be hard for it to hinge on Shepard since she knows he/she will come back. I do like the whole "used by Cerberus/Shadow Broker" theory, as I think it explains everything the best. We'll have to see, I guess.

[JPfanner]

justinnstuff wrote...

Driveninhifi wrote...

One thing I've noticed so far about the comics: nothing that's happened thus far explains the extreme anger she shows. Sure, she's mad at the Shadow Broker and destroys that room...but that's a far cry from 2 years of obsession. She's angry about the Shadow Broker being patronizing and she thinks she's lost the body. Getting the body back and learning they can rebuild Shepard has got to go a long way towards lessening that anger.
I hope the next issues gives a better motivation, because what I've seen so far doesn't make enough sense.

Yeah I have to agree with you here. I also think we won't see full fledged angering moments in the comic. I don't know what they could possibly toss at us that wraps all of that up in one issue. All the comics so far are brief.

Yep, she still needs to get the body, Feron needs to do whatever, she has to get away, and then have some conversation with Cerberus where they reveal why they want the body.  All of that in 22 pages (which is the count for Redemption 2 of actual story).  Throw in the obligatory action panels of more biotic badassery and that doesn't leave much space for each item.
I'm getting this feeling of deja vu.  We're going to need yet another medium to explain what isn't in the comics that were to explain what wasn't in the game.

[Driveninhifi]

Yeah, I'd guess it starts with Feron's big reveal of who he works for. I'd guess he's working for Cerberus. Then they have the big fight and get the body. Feron probably holds off the guards while Liara escapes in the ship. Liara is unsure about giving Cerberus the body, but TIM says "We can rebuild him. We have the technology!" Liara, being crazy in love with Shep turns the body over.

With that, they have to explain how she got started in the info biz - as we've been over numerous times, she's the character least suited to that business so she really must have a patron.

It would make sense that Cerberus needs a new operative to watch/fight the Shadow Broker (if Feron is working for them), and Liara absolutely needs protection. I think that's key: there's no way she'd be able to survive on her own without support since she literally has no living friends at this point (sure the Normandy crew are her friends, but they can't protect her). So perhaps it's an ultimatum from TIM: work for me and you may have a chance to see Shepard again, otherwise the Shadow Broker will track you down.

[JPfanner]

ERJAK2 wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

As far as we know, her father is still alive, right? Would be nice to meet in ME 3. But then it would be nice if Spacer Shepard could meet his parents too (and maybe introduce Liara to them), and that will never happen either.

Yeah, he may still be alive. Benezia didn't really talk about her father though, so she may not know who he/she really is. With Benezia gone, it would be very hard to find out.

Calling it right now, the Shadow Borker is Liara's father.

Don't those cut audio files from where you actually snuffed the Shadow Broker refer to the Shadow Broker with masculine pronouns though?  I'm not saying there isn't a chance they changed all that stuff, but it sounded like Shepard killed the Shadow Broker and so that would at least resolve the gender issue.  If the Shadow Broker were an asari you'd think they'd have used feminine pronouns.

[Yeled]

Honestly, I don't think the SB is Liara's father. It explains why she takes things so personally, but it seems quite contrived and I don't buy it.

[JPfanner]

I think she just takes things personally with the Shadow Broker because it gives her at least a somewhat constructive outlet for her feelings. She had to make a tough decision in giving your body to Cerberus on the fragile hope that Shepard would come back, she went through a lot to get it herself, plus whatever happened to Feron as a result of that.

She can either sit around and feel bad, constantly consumed by these warring feelings of hope and fear, or she can sublimate that a bit and shift some of those negative feelings to the Shadow Broker. She can't make Shepard be alive again, she can't make Cerberus not brainwash Shepard, she can't make Shepard not be angry at being given to them. All she can do is hold onto her hope for those. But she can make the Shadow Broker pay for the part he played.

It just sucks that you can't talk more with Liara about the whole situation when she brings it up. Or you can't get more information out of Miranda on exactly what happened. I have no doubt that TIM at the least told Liara to stay quiet about what happened. TIM is actively working to isolate you from everyone else but Cerberus before you even get off that surgery table.

[Nozybidaj]

I think you are all reading too much into it. If the devs ever come out to explain it they will probably say something along the line of "We thought it was dark and edgy and we really wanted to make sure the scene was as amped up as possible. Like through the roof. We totally nailed it, lolz".

[JPfanner]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

There's also the possibility that TIM will begin to emotionally manipulate Liara into working for him, and implant the seed of doubt and guilt in her mind that Shepard will hate her. TIM then tells her that she cannot fraternize with Shepard anymore, and fearful of Shepard's reaction, Liara reluctantly agrees to work for Cerberus.

Yep, plus that in having Shepard physically that is essentially having a hostage for her good behavior.  All he'd have to do is tell her something like "We'll handle Shepard's reanimation, you just focus on what the connection between the Shadow Broker and the Collectors is."  She doesn't really have a lot of choice until she can determine if Shepard is coming back and in what condition.

[JPfanner]

Nozybidaj wrote...

I think you are all reading too much into it. If the devs ever come out to explain it they will probably say something along the line of "We thought it was dark and edgy and we really wanted to make sure the scene was as amped up as possible. Like through the roof. We totally nailed it, lolz".

Most likely : )  But screenshots, replaying ME1, and staring at that picture on your desk only does so much.  The discussion is interesting just from seeing what perspective different people have and it is nice to see the frustrations you have shared by other people.  If nothing else it is a bit cathartic to try and see the sky reflected in the mudpuddle, even if the mudpuddle is only a finger deep and doesn't touch the stars.

[Driveninhifi]

JPfanner wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

There's also the possibility that TIM will begin to emotionally manipulate Liara into working for him, and implant the seed of doubt and guilt in her mind that Shepard will hate her. TIM then tells her that she cannot fraternize with Shepard anymore, and fearful of Shepard's reaction, Liara reluctantly agrees to work for Cerberus.

Yep, plus that in having Shepard physically that is essentially having a hostage for her good behavior.  All he'd have to do is tell her something like "We'll handle Shepard's reanimation, you just focus on what the connection between the Shadow Broker and the Collectors is."  She doesn't really have a lot of choice until she can determine if Shepard is coming back and in what condition.

True, and also consider that she herself can be a hostage as well. TIM can say: "Want to see Shepard again? Work for me and don't talk to him/her. If you try to get close again, you don't get our resources/protection. We'll leave you for the Shadow Broker."
What's her choice then? Cerberus doesn't mess around, and neither does the Shadow Broker. She MUST have protection of some kind in the middle 2 years - it's impossible to believe the Shadow Broker lets her walk away without attempting some retribution. She'd want to stay alive to have the chance at a reunion, so she knows she'd better keep her mouth shut.

There has to be something like this - otherwise there's no reason keeping her from telling Shepard everything once she realizes Shepard doesn't hate her. She's waited two years for his/her resurrection; something has to be keeping her quiet.

Modifié par Driveninhifi, 04 mars 2010 - 11:15 .

[WilliamShatner]

Driveninhifi wrote...

JPfanner wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

There's also the possibility that TIM will begin to emotionally manipulate Liara into working for him, and implant the seed of doubt and guilt in her mind that Shepard will hate her. TIM then tells her that she cannot fraternize with Shepard anymore, and fearful of Shepard's reaction, Liara reluctantly agrees to work for Cerberus.

Yep, plus that in having Shepard physically that is essentially having a hostage for her good behavior.  All he'd have to do is tell her something like "We'll handle Shepard's reanimation, you just focus on what the connection between the Shadow Broker and the Collectors is."  She doesn't really have a lot of choice until she can determine if Shepard is coming back and in what condition.

True, and also consider that she herself can be a hostage as well. TIM can say: "Want to see Shepard again? Work for me and don't talk to him/her. If you try to get close again, you don't get our resources/protection. We'll leave you for the Shadow Broker."
What's her choice then? Cerberus doesn't mess around, and neither does the Shadow Broker. She MUST have protection of some kind in the middle 2 years - it's impossible to believe the Shadow Broker lets her walk away without attempting some retribution. She'd want to stay alive to have the chance at a reunion, so she knows she'd better keep her mouth shut.

There has to be something like this - otherwise there's no reason keeping her from telling Shepard everything once she realizes Shepard doesn't hate her. She's waited two years for his/her resurrection; something has to be keeping her quiet.

Tell Shepard and join Shepard on the Normady?  I'd like to see TIM have the balls to try to harm her there.

[Slakky]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Driveninhifi wrote...

JPfanner wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

There's also the possibility that TIM will begin to emotionally manipulate Liara into working for him, and implant the seed of doubt and guilt in her mind that Shepard will hate her. TIM then tells her that she cannot fraternize with Shepard anymore, and fearful of Shepard's reaction, Liara reluctantly agrees to work for Cerberus.

Yep, plus that in having Shepard physically that is essentially having a hostage for her good behavior.  All he'd have to do is tell her something like "We'll handle Shepard's reanimation, you just focus on what the connection between the Shadow Broker and the Collectors is."  She doesn't really have a lot of choice until she can determine if Shepard is coming back and in what condition.

True, and also consider that she herself can be a hostage as well. TIM can say: "Want to see Shepard again? Work for me and don't talk to him/her. If you try to get close again, you don't get our resources/protection. We'll leave you for the Shadow Broker."
What's her choice then? Cerberus doesn't mess around, and neither does the Shadow Broker. She MUST have protection of some kind in the middle 2 years - it's impossible to believe the Shadow Broker lets her walk away without attempting some retribution. She'd want to stay alive to have the chance at a reunion, so she knows she'd better keep her mouth shut.

There has to be something like this - otherwise there's no reason keeping her from telling Shepard everything once she realizes Shepard doesn't hate her. She's waited two years for his/her resurrection; something has to be keeping her quiet.

Tell Shepard and join Shepard on the Normady?  I'd like to see TIM have the balls to try to harm her there.

I'm sure she spent the last couple of years contemplating all the bad zombie horror stories that could come out of Cerberus shaped like Shephard.  Maybe Miranda got her way and Shep has a mind control chip now.

As long as you're with Cerberus, there's a solid chance of horrible horrible death from her POV.

Modifié par Slakky, 04 mars 2010 - 11:30 .

[jlb524]

screwoffreg wrote...

http://www.fanfiction.net/~kanelam
"The Distance Between Two Stars, CH 4"

Good job!  I really like the story so far.  Nice and angsty, just how I like it.

[bjdbwea]

You always come back to the main problem: That Shepard just sits there like a complete idiot, unable to say anything. Whatever explanation Liara may have for her own behaviour, Shepard doesn't know it. I could think up a dozen ways to give Shepard - and the player - a hint that Liara would like, but can't discuss the issue at the moment.

But that has been said again and again now, and really all that can be done is wait for the final issue of that comic and then for news that may or may not come about a DLC.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 04 mars 2010 - 11:37 .

[drunken pyromaniac]

Hello. *waves*

I thought I would drop by from the Ashley thread to show support for all the ME1 love interests in ME3!

[WilliamShatner]

Slakky wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

Driveninhifi wrote...

JPfanner wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

There's also the possibility that TIM will begin to emotionally manipulate Liara into working for him, and implant the seed of doubt and guilt in her mind that Shepard will hate her. TIM then tells her that she cannot fraternize with Shepard anymore, and fearful of Shepard's reaction, Liara reluctantly agrees to work for Cerberus.

Yep, plus that in having Shepard physically that is essentially having a hostage for her good behavior.  All he'd have to do is tell her something like "We'll handle Shepard's reanimation, you just focus on what the connection between the Shadow Broker and the Collectors is."  She doesn't really have a lot of choice until she can determine if Shepard is coming back and in what condition.

True, and also consider that she herself can be a hostage as well. TIM can say: "Want to see Shepard again? Work for me and don't talk to him/her. If you try to get close again, you don't get our resources/protection. We'll leave you for the Shadow Broker."
What's her choice then? Cerberus doesn't mess around, and neither does the Shadow Broker. She MUST have protection of some kind in the middle 2 years - it's impossible to believe the Shadow Broker lets her walk away without attempting some retribution. She'd want to stay alive to have the chance at a reunion, so she knows she'd better keep her mouth shut.

There has to be something like this - otherwise there's no reason keeping her from telling Shepard everything once she realizes Shepard doesn't hate her. She's waited two years for his/her resurrection; something has to be keeping her quiet.

Tell Shepard and join Shepard on the Normady?  I'd like to see TIM have the balls to try to harm her there.

I'm sure she spent the last couple of years contemplating all the bad zombie horror stories that could come out of Cerberus shaped like Shephard.  Maybe Miranda got her way and Shep has a mind control chip now.

As long as you're with Cerberus, there's a solid chance of horrible horrible death from her POV.

I'm not sure her situation on Illium is any better.

[Slakky]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Slakky wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

Tell Shepard and join Shepard on the Normady?  I'd like to see TIM have the balls to try to harm her there.

I'm sure she spent the last couple of years contemplating all the bad zombie horror stories that could come out of Cerberus shaped like Shephard.  Maybe Miranda got her way and Shep has a mind control chip now.

As long as you're with Cerberus, there's a solid chance of horrible horrible death from her POV.

I'm not sure her situation on Illium is any better.

From a purely objective standpoint, probably not.  From Liara's guilt ridden little blue Judas perspective, it makes more sense.

If Shep is a mind controlled zombie, that's a truly horrific confrontation.  If Shep isn't and hates her for what she did anyway, where is she then?

I realize this is all a massive exercise retroactive continuity, but I think Drivin's theory is about as close to good as you can get.

[screwoffreg]

DAMNIT I am done. That took forever. I finished the story and it took a lot out of me. For those of you who can actually get through it, imagine yourselves winning an endurance reward. I had to tone down the ending because the dumb site has "rules" about mature content, but I think I got the point across. Hope ya'll enjoy.

http://www.fanfiction.net/~kanelam

Just realized you have to give it a few more minutes for Chapter 5 to load...

Modifié par screwoffreg, 05 mars 2010 - 12:05 .

[epoch_]

Popping in from the ashley thread to show some love for my favorite asari.