50907 réponses à ce sujet

[JPfanner]

Yeled wrote...
I hear what you're saying.  But honestly I try not to overthink these things.  You can poke holes left and right if you do.  Its just a fantasy story in space.  Sometimes things don't make precise sense, and cool is often more important than logical,

Yep, it just seems like in ME1 there were actual nods to science and realism for each bit of handwaving or contrivance.  Then in ME2 we have people running around in vacuum and toxic environments in their underwear and kinetic barriers are now magic shields that stop everything.  I'm surprised we don't get a DLC that adds a chocobo pen to the Normandy.  I like Final Fantasy, just not in my Mass Effect.
The Cerberus/humanity stuff didn't bother me really until I was forced to work with them and just sit there mindlessly or listen to just plain moronic justifications like "Think how many lives would have been saved on Eden Prime with just twelve rachni soldiers!"  Yeah, I'm sure a dozen poison spitting bugs would have worked great against hordes of robotic killing machines.

[zarr25]

[quote]JPfanner wrote...

[quote]Yeled wrote...
The Cerberus/humanity stuff didn't bother me really until I was forced to work with them and just sit there mindlessly or listen to just plain moronic justifications like "Think how many lives would have been saved on Eden Prime with just twelve rachni soldiers!"  Yeah, I'm sure a dozen poison spitting bugs would have worked great against hordes of robotic killing machines.[/quote]


HAHAHA! Thats the truth!

[WilliamShatner]

JPfanner wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...
I also think that they have to much of a love affair with Cerberus in general, Mass Effect is a huge universe with so many thing's that could be going on, and it seems like everything they have released since ME1 has at the least had a very strong Cerberus presence, if not completely revolved around Cerberus, and there is so much more to the universe then just them.

Cerberus is one of the more annoying things in Mass Effect for me to accept.  The asari and salarians formed the Council in 500 BC.  Humanity doesn't even make contact with aliens until 2157.  And yet we're supposed to believe that by 2185 (ME2) that Cerberus would have any amount of influence in anything but some localized human affairs.  The rapid colonization by humans goes along with that, but that usually gets a pass in science fiction stuff along with FTL drives. 
There would just be no way for Cerberus to even begin to compete with Council intelligence assets on a galactic scale when they've been doing it for nearly three millenia and humans have been there for nearly three decades.  TIM is an exceptional individual, but I think he'd still be minor league compared to even one asari matriarch.  How do you quantify nearly one thousand years of experience in human terms?  The STG has been running covert ops and counter-intelligence on a galactic scale since humans were rowing around in triremes.

Great points!

[Nozybidaj]

Something that I don't know if it has ever been addressed, but I've been wondering about. Why was Liara looking for Shep to being with? Who sent her to Omega in the first place where she meets Feron the first time? Has any of that ever been hashed out? I have a theory but I want to see if anyone knows the answers to those questions first.

[Driveninhifi]

Well, it's easy to assume she'd start looking once she realized the body wasn't found. Or she'd start looking immediately.
It's implied Feron contacted her (or maybe she even says it) - so he probably said to meet him there.
The thing the first comic did well is that she's kind of stumbling around, asking random people for info until she realizes who Feron is. That seemed in character. Actually, I think she was in character for most of the comic, if a bit aggressive taking down the people transporting her. I don't think it's out of character for her to defend herself, and she's definitely powerful, but I think the comic writers wanted the issue to start with a bang so we get that fight.

Also, the game explains pretty well that humanity is way more aggressive at pursuing its interests than most of the other races. Pretty much everyone says this: the other races do things "the way it's always been done" and petition for council slots, etc. Whereas humanity just sends people off to colonize planets, has groups like Cerberus with essentially no morals and has awesome people like Shepard who save the galaxy on a daily basis.

But yes, you would think an asari matriarch would have seen every trick in the book about 100 times over.

Modifié par Driveninhifi, 05 mars 2010 - 03:05 .

[scxenophobe]

Driveninhifi wrote...

But yes, you would think an asari matriarch would have seen every trick in the book about 100 times over.

Obviously tricks weren't invented until humanity came along.

[mrbeavis19]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

mrbeavis19 wrote...

"Liara, being crazy in love with Shep..." I am kind of pissed though cause she never refers to him as more than "her friend". It's like the writers of the comic are worried about stepping on toes here. "oh I picked ashley! this is an outrage!". Do they not realize that Liara fans are the base market for these comics? *sigh* oh BW, get your s**t together.<_<

It's deliberately left ambiguous though so that it can remain canonical.

For the non-Liara LIs it's that she's dedicated to Shep. For us Liara lovers though, it's because she loves Shepard and is trying to get his/her body back. IMO, it's a much better and emotional story for us Liara lovers as she's doing it out of love.

Idk, it just annoys me that we have to put the thoughts and motivations into her character for ourselves. We don't get to see them manifest in her dialog or interactions with the other characters. That's what bugs me.

[Nozybidaj]

Driveninhifi wrote...

Well, it's easy to assume she'd start looking once she realized the body wasn't found. Or she'd start looking immediately.
It's implied Feron contacted her (or maybe she even says it) - so he probably said to meet him there.

I was just thinking maybe we are wrong about the Cerberus connection.  Something bothers me about that, since if Feron does work for TIM why involve Liara at all?

Once Shepard dies there are really only three people/groups that still believe the Reapers are coming.  Shep's crew which is disbanded/falls apart.  TIM and Cerberus, who I don't think would have been the ones to start Liara down the path after Shepard's body.  I imagine once they knew she was after Shepard TIM would have viewed her more as an inconvenience than anything.

The only other person who would believe the Reapers are coming and would even be interested in recovering Shep's body?

Anderson.  What if Anderson/Alliance are the ones that sent Liara after Shepard's body to begin with and Feron is working for Anderson, not TIM. 

If Feron was working for Cerberus why contact Liara at all?  Just find the body, call Miranda and go get the body, mission accomplished.  If Feron is working with Cerberus having Feron meet up with Liara would be like throwing a big monkey wrench into your own plans.

Maybe this is where Liara feels she "Screwed everything up".  Once she gets the body back she has a choice to make, either take the body back to Anderson/Alliance for whatever it is they want the body for but TIM makes her a counter offer, "give him to me and I'll bring him back", she has that moment of weakness and lets TIM/Miranda take off with Shep's body.  I can already see her dropping to her knees, head in her hands crying as Miranda flys off with the body in tow.

The only question I haven't answered is why would Anderson/Alliance be after Shep's body and is Liara currently working for Anderson or TIM.  Far as TIM would be concerned once he got Shep's body why protect Liara at all?  Let the SB kill her and tie up your one and only loose end.  Anderson to me would be the only one who would still have an interest in keeping Liara safe, even if she did give Shep to Cerberus.  Maybe Anderson even agreed with her since he knows how important it would be to bring Shep back.

Maybe now Liara and Anderson are working on some way not only to protect Shep from the SB, but rather to find a way to get him back from Cerberus.

Yeah it is as full of holes as the Cerberus idea, but it is an alternative that sits a lot better with me.

Discuss.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 05 mars 2010 - 03:26 .

[jlb524]

I've said before maybe Feron is working for Ashley or Kaidan looking for Shepard (they'd be referred to by Feron as 'Your friend in the Alliance'). It would be nice for those that romanced them if their lover hired someone to look for Shep's body. I have no evidence though.

[Nozybidaj]

jlb524 wrote...

I've said before maybe Feron is working for Ashley or Kaidan looking for Shepard (they'd be referred to by Feron as 'Your friend in the Alliance'). It would be nice for those that romanced them if their lover hired someone to look for Shep's body. I have no evidence though.

Maybe Anderson is working through Ash/Kaidan who are working through Feron who meets up with Liara.

Would at least leave an opening to work the Virmire survivor back into the story somehow.

[mrbeavis19]

jlb524 wrote...

I've said before maybe Feron is working for Ashley or Kaidan looking for Shepard (they'd be referred to by Feron as 'Your friend in the Alliance'). It would be nice for those that romanced them if their lover hired someone to look for Shep's body. I have no evidence though.

pfft that's just cause they're not cool enough to hunt him down themselves. Just another reason that Liara is the best! :happy:<3

[JPfanner]

I don't know. I actually kind of hate the Alliance now. I think Anderson and Hackett are cool, but from the comments Joker makes about what happened to your old crew I get the impression that the majority of the Alliance is made up of Udina clones and/or Terra Firma/Cerberus closet supporters. They seemed as a whole glad you were all heroic and then simply disappeared. So glad that they left the Normandy and 20 MIA people to rot.

But I could definitely see Anderson taking a non-conventional route to get things done, especially if Alliance channels were either unsympathetic or corrupted by Cerberus. It'd be nice to think that Anderson was doing something. He didn't do a whole lot in ME2, but like Ashley/Kaiden, Liara, and the Council he was just a victim of development with that.

Really there aren't that many factions that we know of that would be involved. I can only come up; Feron could be Cerberus, could be working for Anderson, or could be a Spectre. But in my opinion it would suck if Feron was a Spectre. The whole office was built up to be something special and indicative of the race as a whole. The drell just aren't important from a galactic standpoint. They're a subject race with no holdings, miniscule numbers, and no political or economic power. It would just seem absurd to me for one of them to be a Spectre.

[Nozybidaj]

Do we even know that the SB is really "out to kill her"? Maybe he's not, maybe Nyxerius was there just to keep an eye on her since she is after him. Maybe he only sees Liara as a nuicance instead of a real threat. Maybe Nyxerius was a Cerberus plant to make it look like the SB is after her. Though I think TIM would be more interested in getting rid of Liara than anything. She is the one variable he can't totally account for.



I think it is dubious he would use her to recover Shep. She'd be just as likely to take the body and run, maybe more so than turn it over to Miranda. Would TIM really take that chance?



I dunno, the more I think about it the more the idea of her working with Cerberus and the idea of TIM using her to recover the body just seems less and less likely.



If anyone would be willing to rely upon Liara to get Shep back, to me that person would be Anderson, not even necessarily the Alliance.

[Ghostano]

I would like to have her as a squadmate and more then a kiss she seemed to have second thoughts on after she gave it to my Shapard.

[Nozybidaj]

Ghostano wrote...

I would like to have her as a squadmate and more then a kiss she seemed to have second thoughts on after she gave it to my Shapard.

Hopefully we'll get a good Liara expansion to clear all that up. :happy:

[shinobi602]

I like Liara a lot and definitely want to see her back in ME3, especially as a squadmate. Though I'm sure there is nothing to worry about, I'm almost 100% sure she'll be a squadmate and romance in ME3.

[mrbeavis19]

General Stubbs wrote...

Still have no theory whatsoever for why Shepard was just sitting there like a ****** throughout the entire Liara reunion, what the hell happened? Did Shepard suddenly forget about Liara being her/his love after the kiss and finally remembered right before the picture scene? A temporary side effect of the Lazarus Project that will be rectified in the Beautiful Blue Goddess Expansion I guess.

Hahahahahaha that's definitely what the name of the expansion/DLC should be! 

[Driveninhifi]

I never got the idea that TIM hated aliens. He's just got his own goals and he'll do whatever it takes to get them done. Sure, he employs people that hate aliens but I get the feeling he's indifferent.



As for Feron/Cerberus - maybe the plan was to have Feron do the dirty work from the beginning. But Liara is hunting the body and they know she's not going to stop. So TIM would probably recognize he'd better bring her into the fold or she's going to screw up their plans. She'd probably try and steal the body from Cerberus once she found out they had it. Instead, TIM gets an "asset" with a very personal stake in succeeding.



The idea of her choosing between Cerberus and the Alliance is a compelling one though. Though you'd think she or Anderson would mention it - they have no reason not to.



I do think that SOMEONE has to protect her and get her started. She'd be totally out of her league hunting the Shadow Broker himself alone. The Shadow Broker would have to be totally enraged at her for stealing the body. He'd probably try to capture her to see what she knows about Cerberus, then kill her. She also doesn't have the interpersonal skills to build up a network of contacts - where's she going to start? Two years really isn't that long. Something doesn't fit.

[Jaysel2134]

I dont think TIM is neccesarily anti alien, just pro human