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[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Metal-Dragon-Kiryu wrote...

It's like in ME1 we get "paragon Liara", in ME2 we get "renegade Liara" - and in ME3 we may get to decide which persona stays? *hopeful*

That's probably what's going to happen, Shepard will have an alignment influence over Liara in ME3. Renegades will encourage her to keep her ruthless and hardened facade, whereas Paragons will comfort her and help her re-embrace her true compassionate and caring personality. I'd be very surprised if this doesn't happen, it seems to be set up perfectly for that to be the case with Liara.

What would the "middle" path be?

[jtav]

Yes, the execution was dreadful, though I still prefer ME2 Liara to ME. A weakness for tragic and/or fallen heroes. ME Liara came off as someone in need of a protector and a bit too sweet for my taste. ME2 Liara is more ruthless but also seems more capable to me. And she interests me more as a character. I want to write her and get inside her head. I didn't before. *prepares to dodge rotten tomatoes*

[Mithran88]

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What would the "middle" path be?

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probably would be an option? like only if you romanced her or the middle option would be to let it play out?

[OrbitalWings]

Lizardviking wrote...

What would the "middle" path be?

Probably similar to ME2 - tough on the outside but still not sure she's doing the right thing. As opposed to a full renegade conclusion in which Liara actually chooses to adopt that coldness as her real personality.

[Mithran88]

jtav wrote...

Yes, the execution was dreadful, though I still prefer ME2 Liara to ME. A weakness for tragic and/or fallen heroes. ME Liara came off as someone in need of a protector and a bit too sweet for my taste. ME2 Liara is more ruthless but also seems more capable to me. And she interests me more as a character. I want to write her and get inside her head. I didn't before. *prepares to dodge rotten tomatoes*

ha no tomatoes, i think a balance of the two would be nice though 

[Nozybidaj]

jtav wrote...
 ME Liara came off as someone in need of a protector and a bit too sweet for my taste.

/shrug  Seems to me you never really knew the ME1 Liara, as she never came off the same way to me, but whatever.

[Mithran88]

I prefer the ME1 Liara best, though if you added a bit of her from ME2, like her ability to handle a tough situation on her own, its nice. As I said a mix of the two would be great, but if the option arises I'm totally going "paragon" Liara =D

[Mithran88]

yorkj86 wrote...

Liara's naivety and innocence are gone.  No matter how much Shepard reassures her, she'll have to live with what she's done.  That's responsibility, that's maturity.

I think that Liara has finally seen so much of all of the bad things in the galaxy because of her friendship/relationship with Shepard, and she realizes it's never as quiet as dig sites tend to be.

I'd like it if Paragon Shepard's influence over Liara encouraged her to stay tough, but also helped her to realize that the "good guys" can be tough, and that they need to be tough to resist temptation to immorality.

I'd like it if Renegade Shepard's influence encouraged her by-whatever-means-necessary mentality.  All the people she killed, she killed for a reason, and that's justification enough.

yeah exactly

[jlb524]

jtav wrote...

Yes, the execution was dreadful, though I still prefer ME2 Liara to ME. A weakness for tragic and/or fallen heroes. ME Liara came off as someone in need of a protector and a bit too sweet for my taste.

I never got this vibe from her.  She even tells Shepard she does not want a protector.

I think she was naive about the workings of the galaxy, but I didn't see her as a typical 'sweet, young, virginal' type in need of protection or guidance.  She proved to be quite capable and independent during the 50 years of reseraching the Protheans.

[OrbitalWings]

I think I've just had an epiphany as to why I like Liara so much (ME2 aside)

Despite her age, and being a Matriarch's daughter and having no doubt seen many different worlds and species, she still has a sense of wonder when she sees new things.

It's a bit like the Doctor in Doctor Who - he still has a childlike wonder whenever he sees something new.

I can imagine Liara setting foot on a new dig site and looking around as though she's never seen anything like it before.

[Ieldra]

yorkj86 wrote...
Liara's naivety and innocence are gone.  No matter how much Shepard reassures her, she'll have to live with what she's done.  That's responsibility, that's maturity.

I think that Liara has finally seen so much of all of the bad things in the galaxy because of her friendship/relationship with Shepard, and she realizes it's never as quiet as dig sites tend to be.

I'd like it if Paragon Shepard's influence over Liara encouraged her to stay tough, but also helped her to realize that the "good guys" can be tough, and that they need to be tough to resist temptation to immorality.

Still, I think something of the archaeologist should still be in a Paragon-influenced Liara. The quiet exploration of the past seems almost like a sanctuary for her, a source for inner peace, where she can retreat for some time before she has to face the evils of the present again. I'd also dislike it if she lost her curiosity.

@jlb524:
I like your sig. There seems, indeed, to be a noticeable number of sexy archaelogists in fiction, even apart from Liara. Nice font, too.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 mai 2010 - 06:51 .

[Mithran88]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I don't think Liara will ever be naive and worldly like she was in ME1 ever again. She's experienced too much, and witnessed and experienced too much of the darker and seedier sides of the galaxy to ever return to that mindset. She's very jaded.

Liara could regain alot of her lost idealism, though. Shepard could help her realise that what she's experienced in the Terminus Systems is not indicative of the "real" galaxy at all, and that there are alot of good, decent people out there.

good point.

[jtav]

jib, it was the repeated "I need to lie down" I think. She had her reasons, but it grated on me after multiple playthroughs.



As for Liara in ME3, I want her to become a more mature idealist, a knight in sour armor who realizes people can be and often are bastards, but there are still things worth fighting and dying for.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I've actually wondered in the past if BioWare is setting it up so that a Renegade Shepard that romances Liara becomes Saren mk2, except working against the Reapers. Both are tough, talented, charismatic, ruthless and heartless people, who are entirely capable. Both have received significant cybernetic implants. Both are talentless leaders. At a Renegade Shepard's side, too, will be a Liara who has been convinced by Shepard to adopt her ruthless facade. She'll become to Shepard like Benezia was to Saren. Think it's likely at all?

I'm still yet to think up an equally compelling and interesting path for a Paragon Shepard and Liara, though.

I'll think screwoffreg said it before. But i could see the renegade path of Liara's romance ending up having her love and devotion to Shepard become something twisted.

[Noxis6]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Yeah, I never got the impression that Liara was someone in deed of protection either. She's always come across to me as someone who's very capable, competant, intelligent and assertive when required. She's not subservient or anything like that, but very independant.

She worked alone on remote digsites for 50 years, fending off pirate attacks single handedly. Liara can defend herself. She defied those who expected her to follow in Benezia's footsteps in order to pursue her passion in archaeology. Liara is very capable of standing her ground, and being very headstrong.

As I said before personally I think most of the "Liara is weak" stuff originates from the fact that people seem to associate being lets a bit naive and not uttering death threats in every sentence with being weak,frankly I remember similar accusations about paragon Shepard in the old forums

Concerning Liaras ME2 handling,personally I dont like it,I have no issue with making her more confident,but I feel there were other ways to do it then what they did,ways that felt more like natural development rather then have the character do a 180 for the sake of "darkness"
That nothing is really explained doesnt help either and the comic does nothing to help it just starts slaughtering Liaras character from page one and doesnt offer any additional explaination
But overall Liaras plot is quite weak which really mirrors the effort that seemingly was put into it,the whole revenge thing I dont really buy it or at least the SB doesnt really evoke that much hate in me to understand Liaras "crusade" against him

[Nozybidaj]

Noxis6 wrote...

As I said before personally I think most of the "Liara is weak" stuff originates from the fact that people seem to associate being lets a bit naive and not uttering death threats in every sentence with being weak,frankly I remember similar accusations about paragon Shepard in the old forums

Concerning Liaras ME2 handling,personally I dont like it,I have no issue with making her more confident,but I feel there were other ways to do it then what they did,ways that felt more like natural development rather then have the character do a 180 for the sake of "darkness"
That nothing is really explained doesnt help either and the comic does nothing to help it just starts slaughtering Liaras character from page one and doesnt offer any additional explaination
But overall Liaras plot is quite weak which really mirrors the effort that seemingly was put into it,the whole revenge thing I dont really buy it or at least the SB doesnt really evoke that much hate in me to understand Liaras "crusade" against him

Agree all around.

[jlb524]

jtav wrote...

jib, it was the repeated "I need to lie down" I think. She had her reasons, but it grated on me after multiple playthroughs.

That annoyed me as well.  What really got me was the the dialog (both Liara's and Shepard's) was the same after each incident.  If they're going to have her get lightheaded 3 times, at least change the dialog a bit for each one.  I think once was enough and got the point across that Shepard's Prothean visions are super duper intense and powerful.

[Nozybidaj]

jlb524 wrote...

jtav wrote...

jib, it was the repeated "I need to lie down" I think. She had her reasons, but it grated on me after multiple playthroughs.

That annoyed me as well.  What really got me was the the dialog (both Liara's and Shepard's) was the same after each incident.  If they're going to have her get lightheaded 3 times, at least change the dialog a bit for each one.  I think once was enough and got the point across that Shepard's Prothean visions are super duper intense and powerful.

Probably a tech limitation at the time.  They probably didn't have a proper way to flag that the "fainting scene" had already played for you after a major world, and since you could do them in any order the scene just played after any world so long as Liara is in your party.  I never assumed she actually feels like fainting any time she does a meld with someone.