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[jlb524]

Noxis6 wrote...

I've seen similar arguments regarding renegade and paragon Shepard on the old forums with the paragon mostly being accused of being weak bascily because s/he doesnt shoot people that dare to speak to him/her immidiatly<_<

Well, Liara and Kaidan are the two most Paragon ME1 characters, so there you go. 

[Andaius20]

Well she was basically quoting her mother when shep meets up to her.

[jlb524]

jtav wrote...

And, on the other side, I find myself defending Liara against charges of being boring. She isn't. She's complex and interesting, even if it took me a while to see that.

Liara (and Kaidan) are both interesting and complex characters if you take the time to think about their history, analyze their motivations, etc.  Their personalities just aren't as strong and 'in your face' as some of the other characters'.  I tend to prefer more nuanced character personalities such as these.

[Mithran88]

ME3 could even be where your choices effect the paths of your team, such as if you go paragon the team shifts towards paragon, playing renegade makes the team shift renegade. In this case depending on your charisma and all would make things interesting to me. So could take your team down the path you want.

[Mithran88]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Liara quoting Benezia in order to threaten some deadbeat was just another example of her social awkwardness. In order to appear menacing and intimidating, she had use one of Benezia's threats as she's unable to appear so on her own? Kinda awkward, from my perspective.

Imagine two 8 year old boys fighting in a playground, and one of them using a line they heard Arnold Schwarzeneggar say in the action movie he saw last night, to try to threaten the other boy. That's what Liara sounds like! She's unable to sound menacing or threatening by herself, heh.

The fact that she then squeals "Shepard!" like a schoolgirl only makes it even more funny.

ha yeah when she said Shepard it made me laugh with the tone she used xD

[jlb524]

I'm never a big fan of influencing squad mates down one path or the other. I know Shep is supposed to be charismatic/influential, but in some cases it would be a bit ridiculous. I don't see Wrex turning super Paragon, for instance.



It was lacking in ME2. I know during the loyalty missions, Shepard could influence them to act in one way or the other. For instance, either allow Miranda kill Niket or stop her from doing it. However, Miranda's character doesn't seem to change depending on which action she took.



I think ME3 will be much the same. The characters themselves don't seem to change much, but Shepard's action can influence the tone of a scene involving each character.

[Andaius20]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Liara quoting Benezia in order to threaten some deadbeat was just another example of her social awkwardness. In order to appear menacing and intimidating, she had use one of Benezia's threats as she's unable to appear so on her own? Kinda awkward, from my perspective.

Imagine two 8 year old boys fighting in a playground, and one of them using a line they heard Arnold Schwarzeneggar say in the action movie he saw last night, to try to threaten the other boy. That's what Liara sounds like! She's unable to sound menacing or threatening by herself, heh.

The fact that she then squeals "Shepard!" like a schoolgirl only makes it even more funny.

I chuckled too. Shep should have said "I did!" before the image cut out.

[Mithran88]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Liara (and Kaidan) are both interesting and complex characters if you take the time to think about their history, analyze their motivations, etc.  Their personalities just aren't as strong and 'in your face' as some of the other characters'.  I tend to prefer more nuanced character personalities such as these.

Exactly this. You've got it spot on, J.

It's what I love about Liara. Her personality is very nuanced, subtle, interesting and complex. There's alot to analyse about her. She has many personality traits that I absolutely adore. She doesn't have an extreme or exaggerrated personality.

Kaidan is a great character too. I love how he's very sensitive, caring, and considerate. He's got his head very much screwed onto his shoulders.

very true 

[jlb524]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

It's what I love about Liara. Her personality is very nuanced, subtle, interesting and complex. There's alot to analyse about her. She has many personality traits that I absolutely adore. She doesn't have an extreme or exaggerrated personality.

Kaidan is a great character too. I love how he's very sensitive, caring, and considerate. He's got his head very much screwed onto his shoulders.

I think a character like Thane is also similar to them.  He's a very chill guy.  I think the difference is that he's an assassin and wears a cool looking leather jacket.  This excuses him from being 'boring'

[jlb524]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

You can't forsee the eventual Paragon/Renegade alignment influence on Liara, J? I think it's been pretty much telegraphed with how it's been set up in ME2, and that ultimately that's what will happen. Look at the influence Shepard could have over Ashley, Kaidan and Garrus in ME1. I'd like it if they did something similar with Liara in ME3, and they probably will do, but preferably I'd like it to be a little more in-depth, and substantial.

I don't know...I want Liara to do her own thing independent of Shepard.  It probably won't happen, but oh well.

[Mithran88]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I'm never a big fan of influencing squad mates down one path or the other. I know Shep is supposed to be charismatic/influential, but in some cases it would be a bit ridiculous. I don't see Wrex turning super Paragon, for instance.

It was lacking in ME2. I know during the loyalty missions, Shepard could influence them to act in one way or the other. For instance, either allow Miranda kill Niket or stop her from doing it. However, Miranda's character doesn't seem to change depending on which action she took.

I think ME3 will be much the same. The characters themselves don't seem to change much, but Shepard's action can influence the tone of a scene involving each character.

You can't forsee the eventual Paragon/Renegade alignment influence on Liara, J? I think it's been pretty much telegraphed with how it's been set up in ME2, and that ultimately that's what will happen. Look at the influence Shepard could have over Ashley, Kaidan and Garrus in ME1. I'd like it if they did something similar with Liara in ME3, and they probably will do, but preferably I'd like it to be a little more in-depth, and substantial.

yeah thats exactly what i was getting at. ^^

[Marcin K]

 well, it was a fine day, but time has come to go OFFLINE overnight, cya all tomorrow:)

for a goodbye as i think it was posted just once or 2:)
P.S.
EDIT: YAY PAGE 1201 deserves:

Modifié par Marcin R, 20 mai 2010 - 08:45 .

[Barquiel]

yorkj86 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

I think Jack is rather vulnerable.

Yeah?    I was condemning the many implicit assertions made within his statement:

1) Jack and Grunt are simple characters
2)  People who like Jack and Grunt are childish
3)  People who like Jack and Grunt like them because they're "simple" characters
4) People who like Jack and Grunt cannot appreciate other types of characters

EDIT:  Formatting woes.

Jack: I think she is very interesting (although you have to romance her)
Grunt: I don't know if he has a fan base^_^
I think he isn't the most interesting character, but he grew on me...

[Noxis6]

jlb524 wrote...
I don't know...I want Liara to do her own thing independent of Shepard.  It probably won't happen, but oh well.

Well there is still the chance they just put her behind a desk on another random planet and maybe have her pick up smoking:wizard:

I guess that would qualify as "doing her own thing" in the end though and I quote Garrus again here "This is you show Shepard" which in its essence is right the games are Shepards "show" not Liaras,s/he is the main character so in the end everything will revolve around him

As for influencing characters,I actually like that though I never saw it done in a good way,besides I would take that any day over "ultra-renegade" Liara being shoved in my face because it was determined this way the character appeals more to the main demographic

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

yorkj86 wrote...

Yeah?    I was condemning the many implicit assertions made within his statement:

1) Jack and Grunt are simple characters
2)  People who like Jack and Grunt are childish
3)  People who like Jack and Grunt like them because they're "simple" characters
4) People who like Jack and Grunt cannot appreciate other types of characters

EDIT:  Formatting woes.

I made no assertions like that, you just fabricated them because you didnt like how I worded that example. Its actually an example of a mindset. Not "if you like Jack, please now whine because you suck for liking the character".

Jack and Grunt ARE simple characters, and are you going to deny they are straightforward, violent and brash? For some idiots thats the prime requisite of a good character. Or it could be other things like Jacks foul mouth.

Just because I point out the things about Jacks or Grunts character that I despise and link them to a particular kind of person doesnt mean Im personally singling out you or every other person who just so happens to like Jack for their own reasons. Stop whining about it. If you arent slagging off Liara as "boring and weak" while singing praises of Jack or Grunt for being "badass", you clearly arent the target of my original point.

[Nozybidaj]

Barquiel wrote...


Jack: I think she is very interesting (although you have to romance her)
Grunt: I don't know if he has a fan base^_^
I think he isn't the most interesting character, but he grew on me...

Grunt was actually one of my favorites of the new cast right behind Mordin and Samara.  I found most of the more "popular" characters rather shallow.

[Mithran88]

Noxis6 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
I don't know...I want Liara to do her own thing independent of Shepard.  It probably won't happen, but oh well.

Well there is still the chance they just put her behind a desk on another random planet and maybe have her pick up smoking:wizard:

I guess that would qualify as "doing her own thing" in the end though and I quote Garrus again here "This is you show Shepard" which in its essence is right the games are Shepards "show" not Liaras,s/he is the main character so in the end everything will revolve around him

As for influencing characters,I actually like that though I never saw it done in a good way,besides I would take that any day over "ultra-renegade" Liara being shoved in my face because it was determined this way the character appeals more to the main demographic

if they did do it this way and let your actions semi control a subtle influence over what path a character follows then it would let everyone be happy with the way it ends, allowing all fans to take the game to "their" happy ending.

[Nozybidaj]

Mithran88 wrote...

if they did do it this way and let your actions semi control a subtle influence over what path a character follows then it would let everyone be happy with the way it ends, allowing all fans to take the game to "their" happy ending.

Looking ahead to what I think BW "will" do and not what I "wish" they would do, I don't expect many fans will be taking the game to "their" happy ending.  I expect lots of disappointment and flaming once ME3 info starts rolling out, and even more once people actually play it.

[Noxis6]

Barquiel wrote...
Jack: I think she is very interesting (although you have to romance her)
Grunt: I don't know if he has a fan base^_^
I think he isn't the most interesting character, but he grew on me...

When it comes to Grunt,I would say I feel mostly indifference towards him,sure he has a few fun moments but I just never connected to him the way I did with Wrex

As for Jack,I kind of like her and her romance wasnt that bad,though what they did with her and femshep was outright bad it just felt like hiting a wall in the end,the "girls club" line actually felt like Bioware saying "Sorry were too lazy to write more dialogue"
I mean if they are so afraid of writing a lesbian relationship couldnt they have at least wrote a friendship path
Also on a sidenote Jacks marketing was by far the worst any ME2 character got and actually made me ask the question "Do I have to recruite this thing?"