50907 réponses à ce sujet

[bjdbwea]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Practically all they seemed to care about is either their own personal mission, or the romance they have with Shepard.

Yes. But even in the romance, they only care about themselves, and not about Shepard. Does anyone ever ask about how Shepard feels? Does anyone ever offer consolation? Not to my knowledge, and I have seen all romances except Jacob's and Thane's. It goes without saying that this, too, was done so much better in ME 1. Ironically, the only character in ME 2 who does seem to care about Shepard - Kelly - wasn't even an LI.

Somehow, I can't help but suspect that Kelly and Mordin were written by someone else. If time constraints or "keeping it simple" for a new audience were the only reasons for the shallowness of most ME 2 characters, those two surely would have to be equally affected.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 21 mai 2010 - 05:40 .

[Erinlana]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Speaking of characters caring about Shepard, I absolutely love the locker scene with Liara in ME1. The way Liara reinvigorates Shepard, and fills her with confidence to fight on is beautiful. Liara helps Shepard out during a moment of emotional vulnerability.

I love Liara's sympathy for Shepard over the nightmares suffered due to the visions from the Prothean beacons too.

Yes it shows she is caring of Shepard ,ah its very touching ..Her sympathy along with her cuteness is just so adorable

[jlb524]

bjdbwea wrote...

Yes. But even in the romance, they only care about themselves, and not about Shepard. Does anyone ever ask about how Shepard feels? Does anyone ever offer consolation? Not to my knowledge, and I have seen all romances except Jacob's and Thane's.

Jacob does ask Shepard about her feelings on the whole 'back from the dead' thing...not sure about Thane.

[bjdbwea]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Speaking of characters caring about Shepard, I absolutely love the locker scene with Liara in ME1. The way Liara reinvigorates Shepard, and fills her with confidence to fight on is beautiful. Liara helps Shepard out during a moment of emotional vulnerability.

Absolutely. A quite simple concept actually, used countless times in books and movies, including action movies. Yet in video games with their usually simple and unimaginative writing, it was almost revolutionary. But BioWare were renowned for exactly that, revolutionizing the medium of video games. I thought they had looked closely at movies and tried to transform the established concepts into a video game, but without creating just another (linear) movie. Instead they put great emphasis on customization and choices too.

And I expected they would just improve further on that vision in ME 2. Instead - well, instead they produced ME 2.

[Mithran88]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Speaking of characters caring about Shepard, I absolutely love the locker scene with Liara in ME1. The way Liara reinvigorates Shepard, and fills her with confidence to fight on is beautiful. Liara helps Shepard out during a moment of emotional vulnerability.

I love Liara's sympathy for Shepard over the nightmares suffered due to the visions from the Prothean beacons too.

yeah i dont see any of the others who cared for Shep as much  Liara is the best!

[jtav]

I generally preferred the ME2 romances, but I did miss a locker scene analogue. I like my heroes to be a bit vulnerable, but Shep seems scarcely human. I joke that his/her LIs deserve better, but sometimes I believe it.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Well I suppose it depends on whether it was intentional or not.  Where as the ME1 squad feels like a group that came together and became friends and comrades over the course of the game I don't think the ME2 squad was intended to do or feel the same.  Why would Grunt give two fracks about Tali, or Jack about Thane? 

This isn't supposed to be a big family get together, its a group of professionals doing a job.    If they end up involved with Shep, so be it, but they aren't there to be your pal.  They are there to get a job done.

At least that is the way I interpret it assuming it was an intentional choice in designing the group.  If that isn't the vibe they intended, then yeah, it was just poor execution and writing. 

Given the precedents the rest of the game sets, it probably is the later rather than the former. /shrug

I see the point and I agree with it. Ive said myself this new squad seems far too "mercenary" to be in it for the long haul. They all seem more like Wrex than they do Ash/Kai or Liara. Its one of the reasons I support them getting cameod in ME3. Its just, even with that reasoning, they devs talked about the game being "focused" on the squad, and maybe I missed the point. Maybe they did mean "focused on each individual squadmember and their loyalty mission", rather than "focused on the personal relationship between Shepard and each crewmember as they head off to a suicide mission".

With how they talked about the new squad though, I expected a much better development and interaction than I got. As I said, its almost a "do my mission so you have another loyal squadmate".

I guess it doesnt help that their roles in the suicide mission werent unique, they were interchangeable.

[kraidy1117]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...
I love how people claim ME2 was "deeper". They were bar far more shallow. Practically all they seem to care about is either their own personal mission, or the romance they have with Shepard. Besides that they are barren. I missed that with the ME1 squad, where you were talking to characters involved in the bigger events. Besides a few useless questions from time to time, it seem by and large the ME2 squad were only involved in their personal errands.

Well I suppose it depends on whether it was intentional or not.  Where as the ME1 squad feels like a group that came together and became friends and comrades over the course of the game I don't think the ME2 squad was intended to do or feel the same.  Why would Grunt give two fracks about Tali, or Jack about Thane? 

This isn't supposed to be a big family get together, its a group of professionals doing a job.    If they end up involved with Shep, so be it, but they aren't there to be your pal.  They are there to get a job done.

At least that is the way I interpret it assuming it was an intentional choice in designing the group.  If that isn't the vibe they intended, then yeah, it was just poor execution and writing. 

Given the precedents the rest of the game sets, it probably is the later rather than the former. /shrug

Speak for your self. Mordin, Thane, Miri, Jacob, Garrus, Tali, Samara and even Grunt felt like a familly in ME2. Only person excluded from this is Jack because if you don't romance her then she does not care about you.

Garrus, Jacob, Thane and Samara consider you a friend
Grunt considers you his battlemaster, leader and kinda like a father
Miri is your lover

If you did't feel anything for the squadmates or even cared for them then I suggest you don't play a game that centers around the characters and play ME where it focused on the main story.

[Mithran88]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Anyone think Liara's knowledge and expertise on the Protheans will ever come in use and be utilised again? Is it possible that the Prothean race could be continuing on in some way deep within the Citadel, after those dozen or so Prothean scientists traveled through the Conduit? What if Liara's Prothean knowledge is required in some way if that were the case?

I could see her knowledge being useful again. After all there is still a lot about them unknown.. and they were still more advanced than any of the living races currently alive that we know of. A lot can unfold in ME3 that would make her knowledge usefull 

[kraidy1117]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Anyone think Liara's knowledge and expertise on the Protheans will ever come in use and be utilised again? Is it possible that the Prothean race could be continuing on in some way deep within the Citadel, after those dozen or so Prothean scientists traveled through the Conduit? What if Liara's Prothean knowledge is required in some way if that were the case?

Well I heard one rumor about the SB from someone that it would be amazing if the SB was the last living Prothean. This would cause alot of conflict with liara for many reasons. However other then that, no it won't. ME3 is going to be about the Reapers and the final battle, this is when all our choices will impact the war.

[Blameless77]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Anyone think Liara's knowledge and expertise on the Protheans will ever come in use and be utilised again? Is it possible that the Prothean race could be continuing on in some way deep within the Citadel, after those dozen or so Prothean scientists traveled through the Conduit? What if Liara's Prothean knowledge is required in some way if that were the case?

It's possible. Bioware needs to invent some kind of crazy plot device to defeat the Reapers (judging by how many there were in the last scene of ME2) and it could very well be Prothean related (or Prothean expertise could at least give perspective on it).

[kraidy1117]

Blameless77 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Anyone think Liara's knowledge and expertise on the Protheans will ever come in use and be utilised again? Is it possible that the Prothean race could be continuing on in some way deep within the Citadel, after those dozen or so Prothean scientists traveled through the Conduit? What if Liara's Prothean knowledge is required in some way if that were the case?

It's possible. Bioware needs to invent some kind of crazy plot device to defeat the Reapers (judging by how many there were in the last scene of ME2) and it could very well be Prothean related (or Prothean expertise could at least give perspective on it).

I think ME3 final act is going to be similar to RotK with the black gate battle where the massive army you have recruited will fight the Reapers, being a distraction so Shepard and his squad can take them down once and for alkl. This is when your choices should come into play. I think the final battle should be like the suicidem ission, but this time deaths count on the choices and the more bad ones you made the more people die, including your LI and to the point where there should be a bad ending where the Reapers win.

[bjdbwea]

Where did you get the notion that ME 1 was not centered around the characters? It was, very much so. Of course it was also focused on the main story, which ME 2 was not.

To say "hey, ME 2 is just different, it's focused on the characters" is just an excuse, because story and characters are not mutually exclusive, nor should they be. In fact, there can be a symbiosis. ME 1 came somewhat close to this, ME 2 didn't even try.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 21 mai 2010 - 06:35 .

[Mithran88]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Yeah...could the fact that the Protheans successfully researched and developed their own version of mass relay technology be introduced later, along with the whole Cipher aspect? If the galaxy's species need to develop their own mass relays, independant from the Reaper created ones, then surely Liara's expertise on the Protheans would be required in order to find and decipher their research?

yeah this is what i was thinking as well. as said a moment ago BW is going to have to come up with something crazy to turn the tide of this war in respect to the number of reapers that are advancing towards our galaxy. If anything the clues to their defeat lay with the advanced prothean race. Liara would be invaluable to that extent?

[kraidy1117]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Yeah...could the fact that the Protheans successfully researched and developed their own version of mass relay technology be introduced later, along with the whole Cipher aspect? If the galaxy's species need to develop their own mass relays, independant from the Reaper created ones, then surely Liara's expertise on the Protheans would be required in order to find and decipher their research?

Well as trilogy rules go, something that played a huge part in the first act always plays a large role in the final act.

examples:
Star wars trilogy: Death star played a huge role in episode 4 and 6
Prince of Persia: Sands of time trilogy: The dagger of time plays a huge part in SoT and Two thrones
God of War trilogy: Pandoras box plays a huge role in GoW and GoW3
Metroid Prime trilogy: Phazon plays a huge part in MP and MP3

There are more examples of this, but I think it's safe to say something that played a huge part in ME will play a huge part in ME3. Maybe the Conduit does more then take you to the Citidel, maybe it takes you to the Reapers, maybe it takes you to a planet where the Reapers are controled from ect.

[Mithran88]

like we find a prothean weapon to add to uniting the whole galaxy to the reaper threat? Took a lot of our ships to take 1 reaper out, judging how many more are on their way...

[Mithran88]

kraidy1117 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Yeah...could the fact that the Protheans successfully researched and developed their own version of mass relay technology be introduced later, along with the whole Cipher aspect? If the galaxy's species need to develop their own mass relays, independant from the Reaper created ones, then surely Liara's expertise on the Protheans would be required in order to find and decipher their research?

Well as trilogy rules go, something that played a huge part in the first act always plays a large role in the final act.

examples:
Star wars trilogy: Death star played a huge role in episode 4 and 6
Prince of Persia: Sands of time trilogy: The dagger of time plays a huge part in SoT and Two thrones
God of War trilogy: Pandoras box plays a huge role in GoW and GoW3
Metroid Prime trilogy: Phazon plays a huge part in MP and MP3

There are more examples of this, but I think it's safe to say something that played a huge part in ME will play a huge part in ME3. Maybe the Conduit does more then take you to the Citidel, maybe it takes you to the Reapers, maybe it takes you to a planet where the Reapers are controled from ect.

very true point!

[kraidy1117]

bjdbwea wrote...

Where did you get the notion that ME 1 was not centered around the characters? It was, very much so. Of course it was also focused on the main story, which ME 2 was not.

To say "hey, ME 2 is just different, it's focused on the characters" is just an excuse, because story and characters are not mutually exclusive, nor should they be. In fact, there can be a symbiosis. ME 1 came somewhat close to this, ME 2 didn't even try.

ME did not focus on the characters hardly at all. Tali was a walking Quarian textbook with only Garrus and wrex having any true dev. Ash, Kaidan and Liara where not dev good at all. There was not alot of focus on the characters at all in ME expect for Garrus and Wrex. ME2 however focused on the characters. Look at Tali and Garrus. Both where dev big time in ME2 compared to ME and the other characters have alot more depth to them. Lets look at Miri, Samara, Tali, Mordin, Legion and Thanes personal mission. Those dev the charactersalot more then any of the characters in ME in one mission. If you did't feel anything when Miri teared up, or your morals and ethics where challanged during Legion or Mordins mission or you where not moved by what Samara had to do, then I suggest you not play a game that focus's on the characters and not the story.  The whole point of ME2 was to meet these characters, learn about them, build bonds with them, befriend them and care for them.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 21 mai 2010 - 06:43 .

[Mithran88]

Always wondered who the shadow broker really is. The theory of the shadow broker being the last prothean is cool. would make it interesting, if not I would say its someone really well known that no one would even suspect.

[kraidy1117]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Oooh, the Shadow Broker is the last Prothean? Very interesting theory.

I can't imagine if that were the case he'd still be "alive" in an organic way. Perhaps this last Prothean downloaded his consciousness and personality into an AI, and not lives on digitally? Kind of like a sentient and sapient version of Vigil? Given how Liara reacted to Vigil, and wanted to spend as much time as possible talking to him and learning about the Protheans, I'm sure she'd be extremely conflicted about exterminating the Shadow Broker if he is what remains of the Protheans. He holds all of the answers to her life long passion in the Protheans.

Yeah, I really like that theory.

I think the SB should be Liaras father or something like that. If the SB is just some random dude then the choice to kill him would be easy and a waste of time. ME2 had many hard choices (Genophage cure reserch, the Geth rewrite decsion and the Collector base) These challanged your moral and ethics very well and for osmething as big as the SB to be a easy decsion would be cheap.