Yes! I finally got my hands on a partial Redemption script (thank you TMA Live). I'm going to have to take a few liberties, but it shouldn't be too horrible. Just hope I can pull it off, especially the AU element that sets things in motion.
Support Liara T'Soni for ME3 - Squadmate and LI
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Nozybidaj
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#31302
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 02:11
JaylaClark
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Sunnie22 wrote...
No, not really. The comic was supposed to explain what happened between the opening scene and when you wake up at the Cerb base. That however was a fail and just created more questions, and didn't mesh too well with what Liara says in the current ME2 dialoge. They did a terrible job with sidelining her is all there is to it.Titan the Green wrote...
I really try to keep up with this thread but it's hard, so if this has been discussed to death, never mind.LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
...snip.... The manner in which the ME1 LIs act in ME2 is still very believeable in line with their respective characterisations. Looking at Liara in ME2, it is still somewhat consistent with what we were shown of her in ME1, and does make sense to a certain extent. ...snip...
Really? I recently went back to ME1 to build a renagade-ish Vangard. After the Noveria mission my chat with Liara was about her not being into revenge for what Saran had done to her mom. So is it really within Liara's known (read - ME1) characterization to be all "I must destroy the SB for what he did!!" Did I miss something?
Agreed, though I think the comic couldn't do too much. They had to somehow make a series of events canon that dealt with Mister/Ms. Variable-Canon him/herself, Commander Shepard ... there's not much to draw on. They couldn't even show her rushing away to the escape pods after getting ordered to do so, because ... well I presume that between 40 to 60 percent of the time, she's sitting in the back of the escape pod watching Kaidan or Ashley doing the same time. (I think 40, personally. I know like two people who didn't romance Liara. Oddly enough, they still like her a lot, they just like Ashley or Kaidan better as a romance.)
#31303
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 02:12
jlb524
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Sunnie22 wrote...
No, not really. The comic was supposed to explain what happened between the opening scene and when you wake up at the Cerb base. That however was a fail and just created more questions, and didn't mesh too well with what Liara says in the current ME2 dialoge. They did a terrible job with sidelining her is all there is to it.Titan the Green wrote...
I really try to keep up with this thread but it's hard, so if this has been discussed to death, never mind.LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
...snip.... The manner in which the ME1 LIs act in ME2 is still very believeable in line with their respective characterisations. Looking at Liara in ME2, it is still somewhat consistent with what we were shown of her in ME1, and does make sense to a certain extent. ...snip...
Really? I recently went back to ME1 to build a renagade-ish Vangard. After the Noveria mission my chat with Liara was about her not being into revenge for what Saran had done to her mom. So is it really within Liara's known (read - ME1) characterization to be all "I must destroy the SB for what he did!!" Did I miss something?
It is quite odd and jarring, though.
Saren is partially responsible for her mothers death: no revenge desired.
The SB possibly killed some shady drell she knew for only a few weeks: OMG! I NEED REVENGE!!!!!
Of course, Liara's also going after the SB due to his/her/its connection to the Collectors. Inevitibly, it was just poorly executed writing, like you said.
#31304
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 02:15
jlb524
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jtav wrote...
Yes! I finally got my hands on a partial Redemption script (thank you TMA Live). I'm going to have to take a few liberties, but it shouldn't be too horrible. Just hope I can pull it off, especially the AU element that sets things in motion.
There's not much in the Redemption plot to begin with, so I'm sure your taking of some liberties with it won't kill it
#31305
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 02:25
Sunnie
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Yep.. I have presented a couple better scripted versions of that scene, probably had about the same screen time but ended up satifying me (at least) when I read through it. Just infuriates me even more when an amature (me) can write scene scripts better than supposed professionals.jlb524 wrote...
Sunnie22 wrote...
No, not really. The comic was supposed to explain what happened between the opening scene and when you wake up at the Cerb base. That however was a fail and just created more questions, and didn't mesh too well with what Liara says in the current ME2 dialoge. They did a terrible job with sidelining her is all there is to it.Titan the Green wrote...
I really try to keep up with this thread but it's hard, so if this has been discussed to death, never mind.LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
...snip.... The manner in which the ME1 LIs act in ME2 is still very believeable in line with their respective characterisations. Looking at Liara in ME2, it is still somewhat consistent with what we were shown of her in ME1, and does make sense to a certain extent. ...snip...
Really? I recently went back to ME1 to build a renagade-ish Vangard. After the Noveria mission my chat with Liara was about her not being into revenge for what Saran had done to her mom. So is it really within Liara's known (read - ME1) characterization to be all "I must destroy the SB for what he did!!" Did I miss something?
It is quite odd and jarring, though.
Saren is partially responsible for her mothers death: no revenge desired.
The SB possibly killed some shady drell she knew for only a few weeks: OMG! I NEED REVENGE!!!!!
Of course, Liara's also going after the SB due to his/her/its connection to the Collectors. Inevitibly, it was just poorly executed writing, like you said.
Modifié par Sunnie22, 24 mai 2010 - 02:26 .
#31306
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 03:00
bjdbwea
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jtav wrote...
If I seem like I gloat, I'm sorry. And I sort of dread the prospect of Miranda, at least showing up in ME3.
No, I didn't mean you. I don't read any other character threads, but from what I've read elsewhere, some people seem to enjoy what happened to the ME 1 LIs.
Modifié par bjdbwea, 24 mai 2010 - 03:00 .
#31307
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 03:06
EvilIguana966
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Asheer_Khan wrote...
I am really pissed of at this permanent silent from Bioware side about "theoretical" development of ME 3 when ToR team publish from time to time so called developer notes presenting many stuff regarding incoming game.
But Bioware - Edmonton protect ME 3 devs notes like some sort national secret and that's why i seriously starting to question anything what is related to ME 3 because i am starting to expect that one day i will read news started by title Mass Effect 3 R.I.P...
Star Wars: The Old Republic has been in development a lot longer than Mass Effect 3. There is probably not a lot at this stage in the creation of ME3 that is even close to finalized. You can expect a lot more information towards the end of the development cycle when they have a good amount of finished product to show off.
I personally plan to buy ME3 pretty much sight unseen. The majority of the regular posters here seem to really dislike ME2, but I found it to be a wonderful game. Was I disappointed with some aspects? Obviously yes, the sub-par treatment of the ME1 romances being one of those. But I don't consider my character's relationship with Liara to be the only important part of the story, which some people here seem to. The romances are nice, but Mass Effect is first and foremost a story about Commander Shepard fighting the Reapers and ultimately saving all organic life from destruction. I think if people expect that to take a second seat to Shepard's love life they are setting themselves up for disappointment.
The bottom line on ME2 is that the story was not as good as the story of ME1, but pretty much everything else was improved. And even if the story was not AS good, it was still GOOD, at least as far as computer games go. ME2 was, overall, an amazing game. If you were disappointed because your favorite part wasn't as good as you expected I understand why you would be upset, but I think you need to have some perspective. Repeatedly denouncing the game as an abject failure because of that one part does nobody any good.
#31308
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 03:27
bjdbwea
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EvilIguana966 wrote...
The romances are nice, but Mass Effect is first and foremost a story about Commander Shepard fighting the Reapers and ultimately saving all organic life from destruction.
Not in ME 2, it wasn't. <_<
And that's part of the problem. You are absolutely right, the romances are not the most important part. I actually went to Illium quite late on my first playthrough. At that moment, I was already very disappointed with the rest of the game but fully expected at least the Liara reunion to be a highlight. As you can imagine, it wasn't.
Bottom line: I for one don't denounce the whole game because of one botched Liara scene, but because I do consider most of the game to be bad in comparison to ME 1, and in comparison to what could rightfully be expected for a successor.
Modifié par bjdbwea, 24 mai 2010 - 03:27 .
#31311
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 07:08
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
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Morning Liara fans!
It is very much in line with Liara's ME1 characterisation in terms of her caring and compassionate attitude, as well as her social awkwardness. Her guilt over handing Shepard over to Cerberus, as well as her fear that Shepard will hate her for this due to the fact that she handed over to corpse to a known terrorist black-ops organisation because she was desperate to see Shepard revived, all of which is fuelling her desire to off the Shadow Broker and is her chief motive. Her guilt over handing the corpse over to Cerberus showcases her compassion, and how she wants what's best for Shepard and cares about her well-being, and how said guilt eats her up inside and causes that tremendous amount of self-loathing because she handed the corpse to Cerberus. Her fear that Shepard will hate her is another example of her social awkwardness, Liara being unsure of just how Shepard will react to her if she ever learns of what Liara did. All of this, which is fuelling her desire to off the Shadow Broker, is very much in line with her ME1 charactersation. Liara's compassion and empathy, plus her social awkwardness.
Regarding what happened with Benezia and what Liara says post-Noveria, I take that to mean that all of this suffering in such and short space of time snowballs, and has a cumulative effect on Liara. Benezia's death and indoctrination, whilst still hurting Liara greatly, was not yet enough to cause any significant reaction in her. However, the destruction of the Normandy and Shepard's death, as well as being ripped away from the only life she has known for all of her life, that combined with Benezia's death and the grief and sorrow that would have caused Liara is enough to fuel what is shown of her in ME2. All of the terrible things that have happened to Liara have snowballed together, and cumulated into a massive amount of emotional pain and torment, enough to fuel her desire to off the Shadow Broker, I think. The grief for Benezia could also be very much on Liara's mind when she's hunting for the SB, who knows.
But really, this is just reiterating my initial point. That Ashley, Kaidan and Liara's respective ME2 scenes only really make sense and seem consistent with their prior characterisations if you read between the lines, analyse it in depth and read deeper. Otherwise, they make no sense at all. Their scenes lack exposition and clarification, and are is desperate need of that in order to help them make sense.
Titan the Green wrote...
Really? I recently went back to ME1 to build a renagade-ish Vangard. After the Noveria mission my chat with Liara was about her not being into revenge for what Saran had done to her mom. So is it really within Liara's known (read - ME1) characterization to be all "I must destroy the SB for what he did!!" Did I miss something?
It is very much in line with Liara's ME1 characterisation in terms of her caring and compassionate attitude, as well as her social awkwardness. Her guilt over handing Shepard over to Cerberus, as well as her fear that Shepard will hate her for this due to the fact that she handed over to corpse to a known terrorist black-ops organisation because she was desperate to see Shepard revived, all of which is fuelling her desire to off the Shadow Broker and is her chief motive. Her guilt over handing the corpse over to Cerberus showcases her compassion, and how she wants what's best for Shepard and cares about her well-being, and how said guilt eats her up inside and causes that tremendous amount of self-loathing because she handed the corpse to Cerberus. Her fear that Shepard will hate her is another example of her social awkwardness, Liara being unsure of just how Shepard will react to her if she ever learns of what Liara did. All of this, which is fuelling her desire to off the Shadow Broker, is very much in line with her ME1 charactersation. Liara's compassion and empathy, plus her social awkwardness.
Regarding what happened with Benezia and what Liara says post-Noveria, I take that to mean that all of this suffering in such and short space of time snowballs, and has a cumulative effect on Liara. Benezia's death and indoctrination, whilst still hurting Liara greatly, was not yet enough to cause any significant reaction in her. However, the destruction of the Normandy and Shepard's death, as well as being ripped away from the only life she has known for all of her life, that combined with Benezia's death and the grief and sorrow that would have caused Liara is enough to fuel what is shown of her in ME2. All of the terrible things that have happened to Liara have snowballed together, and cumulated into a massive amount of emotional pain and torment, enough to fuel her desire to off the Shadow Broker, I think. The grief for Benezia could also be very much on Liara's mind when she's hunting for the SB, who knows.
But really, this is just reiterating my initial point. That Ashley, Kaidan and Liara's respective ME2 scenes only really make sense and seem consistent with their prior characterisations if you read between the lines, analyse it in depth and read deeper. Otherwise, they make no sense at all. Their scenes lack exposition and clarification, and are is desperate need of that in order to help them make sense.
#31312
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 07:08
muskettman87
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Woah, heh, really slow tonight...
Edit: nvm bad timing
Edit: nvm bad timing
Modifié par muskettman87, 24 mai 2010 - 07:09 .
#31313
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 07:16
AZ RUSH
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You seem to get ninja'd a lotmuskettman87 wrote...
Woah, heh, really slow tonight...
Edit: nvm bad timing
#31314
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 07:20
muskettman87
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I also think Liara's reasons for this anti-SB mentality could revolve around the Collectors. I mean if she knows the SB is working with the Collectors thats reason enough to take him(?) down.Not only that she could know something about the situation we don't.
#31315
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 07:20
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
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Haha, that was pretty funny muskett.
#31316
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 07:22
muskettman87
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Yeah, thats pretty much the story of my thread experiance here.AZ RUSH wrote...
You seem to get ninja'd a lotmuskettman87 wrote...
Woah, heh, really slow tonight...
Edit: nvm bad timing
#31317
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 07:27
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
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muskettman87 wrote...
I also think Liara's reasons for this anti-SB mentality could revolve around the Collectors. I mean if she knows the SB is working with the Collectors thats reason enough to take him(?) down.Not only that she could know something about the situation we don't.
Agreed. I'm hoping that with this data cache that Liara is now in possession of, she's aware that the Shadow Broker, as I theorise, is in deep with the Reapers and assisting them. It would show that she's still very much aware of the bigger picture with regards to the whole Reaper plot.
#31318
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 07:30
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
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Also:
Joking? Oh, By the Goddess, how could I have been so dense? You must think I am a complete fool!
Joking? Oh, By the Goddess, how could I have been so dense? You must think I am a complete fool!
#31319
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 07:40
muskettman87
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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Agreed. I'm hoping that with this data cache that Liara is now in possession of, she's aware that the Shadow Broker, as I theorise, is in deep with the Reapers and assisting them. It would show that she's still very much aware of the bigger picture with regards to the whole Reaper plot.
Yeah, The cool part is now that Nyxeris is out of the way, she can focus on that data cache that was found, instead of the crap Nyxeris was spoon feeding her for god knows how long.
I'm curious about the Reaper/SB thing. In theory it would make sense if he was a Reaper, or AI working for the Reapers (like the Geth). But if he is an organic?. I think if he's an organic is raises the question "why would he work for a race of machines that want to wipe out all life?". It would be pretty hard to perform an info broker buisness if everyones dead.
Modifié par muskettman87, 24 mai 2010 - 07:41 .
#31320
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 07:42
muskettman87
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I love those Liara gifs
.Sooo adorable!
.Sooo adorable!
#31321
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 07:46
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
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muskettman87 wrote...
I'm curious about the Reaper/SB thing. In theory it would make sense if he was a Reaper, or AI working for the Reapers (like the Geth). But if he is an organic?. I think if he's an organic is raises the question "why would he work for a race of machines that want to wipe out all life?". It would be pretty hard to perform an info broker buisness if everyones dead.
He could be another Saren, an organic who has been subjected to soft indoctrination and promised salvation from the coming Reaper invasion in return for assistance. The Shadow Broker is a very useful tool for the Reapers. Like Vigil says in ME1, information is power and the Shadow Broker has more than any other entity in the galaxy.
If Liara knows of this, which I'm hoping that she does, then it makes her whole SB story arc alot more worthwhile in the grand scheme of the main plot of the trilogy.
#31323
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 07:51
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
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There are more Liara gifs!
EDIT: Hi Erin!
EDIT: Hi Erin!
Modifié par LesEnfantsTerribles, 24 mai 2010 - 07:52 .
#31324
Posté 24 mai 2010 - 07:52
Noxis6
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muskettman87 wrote...
Yeah, The cool part is now that Nyxeris is out of the way, she can focus on that data cache that was found, instead of the crap Nyxeris was spoon feeding her for god knows how long.
I'm curious about the Reaper/SB thing. In theory it would make sense if he was a Reaper or AI working for the Reapers (like the Geth). But if he is an organic. I think if he's an organic is raises the question "why would he work for a race of machines that want to wipe out all life?". It would be pretty hard to perform an info broker buisness if everyones dead.
Well personally I have my doubts if the SB has anything to do with the reapers at all,something tells me hes just the next in line of people about to get gunned down by Shepard,though I still find the idea that one of the most ellusive persons of the galaxy would come out to fight you rather unbelievable
As for the data cache I wouldnt be to suprised if it never ever comes up again,overall the whole Liara/SB thing is still weak and has tons of holes in it
Like why the SB seemingly didnt care about Liara running around for two years and now decided to do something,or Liaras reasons for revenge they are again really weak,personally I find it hard to see such a degree of wanting revenge against the as justified
Sure he did try to sell Shepards corpse,sure thats not a nice thing and he for sure is not a nice person in general,but I mean he didnt kill Shepard or hurt him/her in any way,if it was revealed that he sold the position of the Normandy to the collectors or something the whole thing might have had more substance
As for Feron thats the weakest reason of all,I mean he basicly went from the guy that screwed Liara at every opportunity to the best friend she ever had withing a few pages,that didnt give me the feeling the SB needs to die either
