50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Marcin K]

going OFFLINE overnight, cya all tomorrow, dream bout Liara:)

Modifié par Marcin R, 05 juin 2010 - 09:35 .

[Noxis6]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

But Liara's character "change" in ME2 is intertwined with the story and it's effects in Shepard's death and the Shadow Broker's actions. It's all had an effect on Liara in some way, and like I say is related to the main plot and narrative of the story.

How in any way could sexualising Liara be tied into the plot at all? It couldn't, and hence it's highly unlikely to happen.

How would they need to tie a potential sexualising of Liara to any plot,they could just do it,as I said its not like they cared

And as I said it was absolutely uncalled for what they did with Liara in ME2 and completely unnatural,if they wanted her out of the squad fine,but they could have done it in a way that made more sense,as I said before this whole mess feels like it was done purely for the sake of "darkness"

Also what did the SB do that was so bad,he tried to sell a corpse,sure not nice and morally questionable and he killed Feron,the guy that is supposed to be the best friend Liara ever had though he screwed her over at every opportunity and she only knew him for a week at best
So you can say Liaras little crusade against the Shadow Broker stand on really weak foundations and personally I find it hard to hate the SB,sure he is a criminal that need to be stopped,but the whole story hardly makes me want to rip his heart out

[WilliamShatner]

Hopefully it will be explained away as delusions caused by meds and being you know, dead, in ME3 and Liara will return to her normal self and tell Shepard "The last time we met you acted really strange."

[kraidy1117]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Hopefully it will be explained away as delusions caused by meds and being you know, dead, in ME3 and Liara will return to her normal self and tell Shepard "The last time we met you acted really strange."

I already have in mind ind away Liara can become the liara we fell in love with in ME, has to do with the SB. Jib knows about the idea and she loved, wanna hear it?

[Spornicus]

Let's tone it down on the ME2 hate. Now I like Liara as much as the rest of you (well, maybe not) and I was a little annoyed seeing her radical change in character, but it doesn't make the game as a whole bad. It's a very good game with very minor problems.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I already have in mind ind away Liara can become the liara we fell in
love with in ME, has to do with the SB. Jib knows about the idea and she
loved, wanna hear it?

Yes please!

Modifié par Lizardviking, 05 juin 2010 - 09:59 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Spornicus wrote...

Let's tone it down on the ME2 hate. Now I like Liara as much as the rest of you (well, maybe not) and I was a little annoyed seeing her radical change in character, but it doesn't make the game as a whole bad. It's a very good game with very minor problems.

No.

I hate ME2 for far more reason other than the terrible ME1 cameo's.

[Spornicus]

Also, keep in mind that to be an info broker, she probably realized she needed to be more ruthless and cutthroat. Picked up a few tips from Aria on not showing weakness, maybe.

[Spornicus]

Lizardviking wrote...

Spornicus wrote...

Let's tone it down on the ME2 hate. Now I like Liara as much as the rest of you (well, maybe not) and I was a little annoyed seeing her radical change in character, but it doesn't make the game as a whole bad. It's a very good game with very minor problems.

No.

I hate ME2 for far more reason other than the terrible ME1 cameo's.

Then maybe the Mass Effect forums aren't the right place for you....

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Spornicus wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Spornicus wrote...

Let's tone it down on the ME2 hate. Now I like Liara as much as the rest of you (well, maybe not) and I was a little annoyed seeing her radical change in character, but it doesn't make the game as a whole bad. It's a very good game with very minor problems.

No.

I hate ME2 for far more reason other than the terrible ME1 cameo's.

Then maybe the Mass Effect forums aren't the right place for you....

Errhhhh okay? I thought ME2 had a terrible plot, and now I should just quit the forums?

[WilliamShatner]

Spornicus wrote...

Let's tone it down on the ME2 hate. Now I like Liara as much as the rest of you (well, maybe not) and I was a little annoyed seeing her radical change in character, but it doesn't make the game as a whole bad. It's a very good game with very minor problems.

I don't consider story and characters to be minor.

[Spornicus]

If you're not a fan of the game, then what are you doing on the forums dedicated to it? Just sayin

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Spornicus wrote...

If you're not a fan of the game, then what are you doing on the forums dedicated to it? Just sayin

Cause I like the character Liara? And because all the worthwhile topics about the mass effect series is here? Also I don't totally hate ME2, it still have some decent qualities about (gameplay and soundtrack).

[kraidy1117]

Ok other then Liz, anyone else want to hear my idea? I have rewriten many aspects of ME2 that people have loved including some of the romances (wtf was Bioware thinking with miri's scene o.O)



Also I am a ME2 fan but ME2 main story just plain sucked, that is not debatable, the plot was everywhere and there is some other issues.

[WilliamShatner]

Spornicus wrote...

If you're not a fan of the game, then what are you doing on the forums dedicated to it? Just sayin

Because I am a fan of Mass Effect (my favourite game of all time actually).  Do you really think I'd be here writing about the games if I didn't care about the series in some way? 

[kraidy1117]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Spornicus wrote...

If you're not a fan of the game, then what are you doing on the forums dedicated to it? Just sayin

Because I am a fan of Mass Effect (my favourite game of all time actually).  Do you really think I'd be here writing about the games if I didn't care about the series in some way? 

I think this is just a hard core ME2 fanboy who thinks the game is perfect and refuses to see that it does have some flaws, like the main plot.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Ok other then Liz, anyone else want to hear my idea? I have rewriten many aspects of ME2 that people have loved including some of the romances (wtf was Bioware thinking with miri's scene o.O)

Also I am a ME2 fan but ME2 main story just plain sucked, that is not debatable, the plot was everywhere and there is some other issues.

Please post it! I would like to hear it.

Also don't call me Liz, sounds like a girl name !

[kraidy1117]

Lizardviking wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Ok other then Liz, anyone else want to hear my idea? I have rewriten many aspects of ME2 that people have loved including some of the romances (wtf was Bioware thinking with miri's scene o.O)

Also I am a ME2 fan but ME2 main story just plain sucked, that is not debatable, the plot was everywhere and there is some other issues.

Please post it! I would like to hear it.

Also don't call me Liz, sounds like a girl name !

Liz reminds me of a lizard, anyways I want to know if anyone else is intrested? You are but I don't feel like typing it out for just one person.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Ok other then Liz, anyone else want to hear my idea? I have rewriten many aspects of ME2 that people have loved including some of the romances (wtf was Bioware thinking with miri's scene o.O)

Also I am a ME2 fan but ME2 main story just plain sucked, that is not debatable, the plot was everywhere and there is some other issues.

Please post it! I would like to hear it.

Also don't call me Liz, sounds like a girl name !

Liz reminds me of a lizard, anyways I want to know if anyone else is intrested? You are but I don't feel like typing it out for just one person.

My name is viking...

lizardviking.

But just write Lizard if you want to save time!

Also just post it! If only for me! :innocent:

[Noxis6]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
I happen to feel that if it was executed and handled better, it can feel very natural and a believeable progression of Liara's character. It's subjective, and if the writing was up to scratch, then it can work very well in Liara's character arc.

You're also not taking into consideration Liara's guilt and grief over what happened to Shepard and what she had to do with the body, emotions and pain that are her chief motivations as outlined in ME2. The fact that Liara doesn't even really like Feron on a personal level is exactly the point the comic tried to ram down our throats, it's becouse she appreciates his sacrifice, not him personally. Also, since when did guilt, grief, sorrow and pain ever have someone acting in a completely 100% rational manner? Liara actually hates the things she's having to do in order to locate the Shadow Broker, but does it out of necessity, not out of desire. Pain and grief is taking it's toll on her, and she's trying to find a solution.

Also, I don't think we've actually been told the full extent of the Shadow Broker's actions and antics. I sense there's more to it than meets the eye. Reaper involvement, very likely IMO.

Frankly they never really put much effort into Liara for ME2,the cut content was even worse,then what we got,the main goal was clearly get her out of the squad at all costs,actually doing this by just having her not appear would have been the better solution for that
Her whole role as the person that brought Shepards corpse back doesnt require her at all,as said before the role could have been given to other characters it would have worked as well

Also part of doesnt get the whole "Liara went through hell to get the body" stuff thats flying around,I mean compared to Saren and his Geth the Blue Suns and some SB thugs were almost a joke,plus she just did this within maybe a week the hunt didnt even take a month
If the comic really try to explain me some sort of guilt or appreciation for Ferons sacrifice it for sure failed to do it for me
If she hates her new job maybe not sure,she seems quite proud of how good she is with it,but frankly in the end who cares why she does it or how she feels about it,Bioware for sure wont,they ignore nearly everything she was in ME1 so this does not really give hope they will ever bring that up again nor care how she felt about her new job in ME2,if they for example want her to be the next SB she will be it not matter what we interpreted by attempting to read between the lines

Also I know people around here seem to be quite eager to cram the reapers into this story arc to somehow give it more substance,I'm not sure it really deserves that nor am I sure if that would actually help it or make it better,frankly I think the SB is a good enough villain on his own,also on what exactly is this based on,because he made a deal with the Collectors,then Okeer must have been one too,many make deals with them since they seem to pay quite good
Or is it the vague speculation that he was with the Collectors in person,which would be kind of strange for one of the most ellusive persons of the galaxy,who never deals with anyone in person to suddenly change that
Also after Sovereign went down the reapers have no physical presence in the galaxy,thoug Harbinger made me wish Sovereign was still alive at times,at least the later was sort of menacing

[bjdbwea]

Here's what they should have done: Let the ME 1 LIs be abducted by the collectors, to be rescued in the end. It's so simple and obvious, really. There you have a good explanation why they can't be part of the crew, and you add a great deal of personal attachment to the whole plot for all fans of those characters. They already had everyhing set up for this regarding Ash and Kaidan, and it would have been easy to come up with something for Liara too.

It would just have created a slight problem in the end, as of course there would have needed to be a small reunion scene, and if Shepard had found a new LI, that conflict would have needed to be dealt with. Though the easiest way would have been to just ignore the ME 1 romance if Shepard had found a new LI. An easy and crude way of dealing with it, but overall of course much better - and not less crude - than what they actually did.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 05 juin 2010 - 10:25 .

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Spornicus wrote...

Also, keep in mind that to be an info broker, she probably realized she needed to be more ruthless and cutthroat. Picked up a few tips from Aria on not showing weakness, maybe.

That's very true. Liara says as much that she's having to put up a front when Shepard (inconsiderately and heartlessly) compares her to Benezia. She doesn't like it, hates it in fact, but she's having to do so out of necessity.

You think Shepard's heartless because he compare her to Benezia? But he didn't. She simply quotes her mother, and then says she's not like her, after Shepard tells her to be carefull. He never compared her. Liara did it herself.

Anyways, you can pretty up everything she's doing, but in the end, she's become an addict, who only cares about killing the Shadow Broker, and she cares more about that then Shepard. She is now a murderer who has no problem with violence. And even if she kills the Shadow Broker, I doubt she'll just walk away from her new life. Instead, she'll just keep selling and killing. Sure she doesn't like it, but who really likes doing what they do? Hating what you're doing is one thing, but stopping is another. And she won't stop.

[Spornicus]

I'm not a "hard core ME2 fanboy who thinks the game is perfect." I know it has flaws. The planet scanning gets boring and tedious and the load screens seem even slower than the ME1 elevators. But I'm not letting obscenely trivial things get in the way of my experience playing the game. Did anyone ever consider how you would react if Bioware hadn't even included Liara? This thread would be called "BURN THE BIOWARE HQ." They added Liara because the fans demand it.



But that's not good enough. You need an immersive mission that in no way would advance the plot. But then people complain about how too much time is spent with Liara/Ashley/Kaidan/etc and not enough time is spent saving the galaxy. The larger a fanbase is, the more unappeasable it becomes. I actually found this on these forums, ironically: http://tvtropes.org/...leasableFanbase.



You know, in the show Mad Men about an advertising agency, the main character said that the one thing that gets in the way of copywriters making good advertisements is the clients. The same goes for video games. A great game could be made, but its "fans" would be up in arms about something. I see that here. Because ME1 was such a great game, people have impossibly high expectations for it. No one seems to realize that sequels almost never top the original (Dark Knight and Empire Strikes Back notwithstanding). So enjoy it for its strengths, don't hate it for its faults.



Maybe these forums aren't a great place for me. There's an awful lot of poison around.