50907 réponses à ce sujet

[kraidy1117]

Ok if I was working for Bioware, I would make this rumored Shadow Broker five hours long and this is the kicker. I would add new weapons, new armor peaces, upgrades and some other goodies and for all these missions you will journey with Liara and Ash/Kaidan.



How would this work you wonder? Well this would be post-suicide mission DLC that Casey has confirmed will happen in the future. Anyways liara tells you she has clues to where the SB is and to start you go and talk to Anderson who also tells you the Council and Alliance are after him too. Ash/Kaidan then joins your team. Now you then begin your adventure where you fly to three planets that are each one hour long, each one gets you closer and closer to the SB. The final planet is where you at last find the SB and this is the longest mission ranging from an hour to two hours then you have the hardest choice ever.



Now if you know me well, you would know that I have a theory that the SB is in fact the last living Prothean(sp). Now this is where the kicker comes in, after conversatinos and a mini fight, the SB is on the ground and Liara says wait. The ME Liara we see kinda comes back and she can not kill the the SB and insist he might know something. The SB agrees to these terms and could help. Ash/Kaidan argue with you that we have to kill him and we can just use his information. This decision will infect how Liara or Ash/Kaidan treat you. If you spare the SB, Liara is very grateful, but Ash/Kaidan are very angry at you and walk. If you kill the SB Liara will not be happy with you and if you are in a romance with her, she will break it off with you. Now on the way back, if you then have a conversation with Liara or Ash/Kaidan and ift hey where your lI you then get a romance scene. However if you did't kill the SB while Ash/Kaidan don't break up with you, you don't get a romance scene and this romance is now on really shaky ground.





That is how I would make the SB DLC.

[bjdbwea]

Spornicus wrote...

Because ME1 was such a great game, people have impossibly high expectations for it. No one seems to realize that sequels almost never top the original.

BG 2. If anyone can do it, it's BioWare. Or so I used to think. They looked at BG 1, and at what the fans liked. Then they did their best to keep the strengths, and improve the flaws. It still wasn't perfect, but nothing more can be expected. They didn't even try for ME 2.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Spornicus wrote...

I'm not a "hard core ME2 fanboy who thinks the game is perfect." I know it has flaws. The planet scanning gets boring and tedious and the load screens seem even slower than the ME1 elevators. But I'm not letting obscenely trivial things get in the way of my experience playing the game. Did anyone ever consider how you would react if Bioware hadn't even included Liara? This thread would be called "BURN THE BIOWARE HQ." They added Liara because the fans demand it.

But that's not good enough. You need an immersive mission that in no way would advance the plot. But then people complain about how too much time is spent with Liara/Ashley/Kaidan/etc and not enough time is spent saving the galaxy. The larger a fanbase is, the more unappeasable it becomes. I actually found this on these forums, ironically: http://tvtropes.org/...leasableFanbase.

You know, in the show Mad Men about an advertising agency, the main character said that the one thing that gets in the way of copywriters making good advertisements is the clients. The same goes for video games. A great game could be made, but its "fans" would be up in arms about something. I see that here. Because ME1 was such a great game, people have impossibly high expectations for it. No one seems to realize that sequels almost never top the original (Dark Knight and Empire Strikes Back notwithstanding). So enjoy it for its strengths, don't hate it for its faults.

Maybe these forums aren't a great place for me. There's an awful lot of poison around.

I have a feeling you don't understand why I don't like ME2 as much as ME1. Story and plot are not "obscenely trivial things" for me as you kindly put it.

[kraidy1117]

bjdbwea wrote...

Spornicus wrote...

Because ME1 was such a great game, people have impossibly high expectations for it. No one seems to realize that sequels almost never top the original.

BG 2. If anyone can do it, it's BioWare. Or so I used to think. They looked at BG 1, and at what the fans liked. Then they did their best to keep the strengths, and improve the flaws. It still wasn't perfect, but nothing more can be expected. They didn't even try for ME 2.

I do prefer ME2 over mE but mE2 does have some flaws, same as ME. If Bioware wants to grow some balls and risk it, ME3 could be the best game ever, they won't k=tho. They will make it for new comers with a bunch of newcomers and everyone gets cameos

[TMA LIVE]

bjdbwea wrote...

Here's what they should have done: Let the ME 1 LIs be abducted by the collectors, to be rescued in the end. It's so simple and obvious, really. There you have a good explanation why they can't be part of the crew, and you add a great deal of personal attachment to the whole plot for all fans of those characters. They already had everyhing set up for this regarding Ash and Kaidan, and it would have been easy to come up with something for Liara too.

It would just have created a slight problem in the end, as of course there would have needed to be a small reunion scene, and if Shepard had found a new LI, that conflict would have needed to be dealt with. Though the easiest way would have been to just ignore the ME 1 romance if Shepard had found a new LI. An easy and crude way of dealing with it, but overall of course much better - and not less crude - than what they actually did.

I'd hate that, since that's just turning Mass Effect into a Mario plot. Also, which is better: Moving on because you're hurt by Ash/Kaidan/Liara, or screwing someone else while trying to save your old girlfriend? Also, how is this a three act love story if it just consists of you saving them, and they go "Shepard! You're the best!:wub:"

I prefer what they did then that. I'd rather hate my ME1 LI, then stare at a picture because I can't move on. Why do I prefer this? Because it has more meaning then a Mario plot.

[Spornicus]

...Am I the only one on these forums who actually likes ME2?

[kraidy1117]

mashavasilec wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Here's what they should have done: Let the ME 1 LIs be abducted by the collectors, to be rescued in the end. It's so simple and obvious, really. There you have a good explanation why they can't be part of the crew, and you add a great deal of personal attachment to the whole plot for all fans of those characters. They already had everyhing set up for this regarding Ash and Kaidan, and it would have been easy to come up with something for Liara too.

It would just have created a slight problem in the end, as of course there would have needed to be a small reunion scene, and if Shepard had found a new LI, that conflict would have needed to be dealt with. Though the easiest way would have been to just ignore the ME 1 romance if Shepard had found a new LI. An easy and crude way of dealing with it, but overall of course much better - and not less crude - than what they actually did.

I think they actually planned it from the beginning, but then Casey realised  that if you're saving a damsel in distress, new "compelling LIs" would not be so compelling. Then Casey cried and they dismissed that scenario and quickly made up new crappy cameos.

That's my theory, anyway.

Damsel in distress are stupid tho, no one plays Mario for the story which is why that plot always works, but for Bioware? It would stupid. Really I could have wrote a better cameo for crying out loud, i can rewrite many aspects of ME2 and I am not even a proper writer!

[Noxis6]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
See, this is what I don't get with you, you constantly whine and whinge about how Liara's motivations are weak and don't make any sense and blah blah blah, but when someone proposes a perfectly plausible theory as to why Liara is hunting the Shadow Broker, if you perhaps don't think that her reasons in the first place are sufficient enough, you then try to disregard them by saying "Oh no, that wouldn't work, I'd rather such and such be kept out of it." Why? Doesn't implementing a stronger reasoning behind Liara's hunt make it all better? Or do you just want an excuse to ****** and whinge?

The whole reaper thing is based on what,this mysterious data cache,if they really want a connection there have to be hints,they cant just wait for a Liara DLC if that ever comes out someday and then say "oh btw the SB is reaper puppet",that doesnt make it better just throws up more questions,also why wouldnt Liara tell Shepard its not like that would brake his/her focus for the mission since Shepard basicly takes everything with a

[kraidy1117]

Spornicus wrote...

...Am I the only one on these forums who actually likes ME2?

Majority of people on the social prefer ME2, but on the liara thread, there is more ME fans and the odd ME2 fans like me but I can see the flaws and the main plot in ME2 was like a ball of crap rolled up windy mountain.

[WilliamShatner]

I've been thinkering about writing a short treatment of how ME2 could have a better plot and be a direct continuation of ME, I have a pretty good idea how I would develop the characters and relationships, as well as some of the big dramatic beats, but the one wall I hit (besides laziness) is making the reapers an plausible villian again. The whole Citadel plan is so elaborate that you'd have to wonder why they'd use it if they had another plan. But then this is something BioWare should have known when announcing the game as a trilogy.

[TMA LIVE]

Spornicus wrote...

I'm not a "hard core ME2 fanboy who thinks the game is perfect." I know it has flaws. The planet scanning gets boring and tedious and the load screens seem even slower than the ME1 elevators. But I'm not letting obscenely trivial things get in the way of my experience playing the game. Did anyone ever consider how you would react if Bioware hadn't even included Liara? This thread would be called "BURN THE BIOWARE HQ." They added Liara because the fans demand it.

But that's not good enough. You need an immersive mission that in no way would advance the plot. But then people complain about how too much time is spent with Liara/Ashley/Kaidan/etc and not enough time is spent saving the galaxy. The larger a fanbase is, the more unappeasable it becomes. I actually found this on these forums, ironically: http://tvtropes.org/...leasableFanbase.

You know, in the show Mad Men about an advertising agency, the main character said that the one thing that gets in the way of copywriters making good advertisements is the clients. The same goes for video games. A great game could be made, but its "fans" would be up in arms about something. I see that here. Because ME1 was such a great game, people have impossibly high expectations for it. No one seems to realize that sequels almost never top the original (Dark Knight and Empire Strikes Back notwithstanding). So enjoy it for its strengths, don't hate it for its faults.

Maybe these forums aren't a great place for me. There's an awful lot of poison around.

As a guy that's actually in the advertisement business, I agree 100% with you. Which is why I always think it's best to never listen to the fans, or never just do just what a client wants. Because at the end of the day, you're talking about a group of people that have different opinions. It's like the abortion topic. If you're with it, they hate you. And if you're against it, they hate you. And in the end, they're basing their opinions on what makes "them" happy. If another group screws with that, they'll ****, ****, ****. Same goes with the other group.

If you really want to make something good, you have to do what "you" want to do. If you're only doing what people want you to do, then you're only going to go where "they" want you to go. If people don't like it, then whatever. But at least what you did was more "you" then "them".

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 05 juin 2010 - 10:52 .

[bjdbwea]

TMA LIVE wrote...

I'd hate that, since that's just turning Mass Effect into a Mario plot. Also, which is better: Moving on because you're hurt by Ash/Kaidan/Liara, or screwing someone else while trying to save your old girlfriend? Also, how is this a three act love story if it just consists of you saving them, and they go "Shepard! You're the best!

I didn't say it was perfect. There should never have been any need to find a way to keep them out of ME 2 in the first place. It should have been a continuation of ME 1, and the team should have stayed the same, give or take a few.

That said, I would have preferred my suggestion over the botched, artificial and incoherent roles they gave the characters now. As far as the cheating is concerned: Well, maybe many players wouldn't have done so if the could look forward to the rescue of and reunion with their favourite character? Who knows how many just moved on because their LIs were just written so badly and disappointingly? Of course if they still decided to cheat, it would be much worse. But so what, it's still everyone's own decision.

Part 3 could have been exactly what it hopefully will be now: A proper continuation of the travel and the romance.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 05 juin 2010 - 10:52 .

[TMA LIVE]

Spornicus wrote...

...Am I the only one on these forums who actually likes ME2?

ME2 is awesome. Better then ME1.

[kraidy1117]

WilliamShatner wrote...

I've been thinkering about writing a short treatment of how ME2 could have a better plot and be a direct continuation of ME, I have a pretty good idea how I would develop the characters and relationships, as well as some of the big dramatic beats, but the one wall I hit (besides laziness) is making the reapers an plausible villian again. The whole Citadel plan is so elaborate that you'd have to wonder why they'd use it if they had another plan. But then this is something BioWare should have known when announcing the game as a trilogy.

I find the Collector story fine, it's how it was handled. Like I can rewrite the whole plot while keeping the Collectors and the same missions but make it better. I did a rewrite somewhere where I would have added three missions into the game to give the player the feeling that they where not safe, that they could not beat the Collectors and a sence of urgancy. I also would have rewrote alot of the dialog, the cameo scenes, suicide mission and even how the personal missions where handled. In short, while the Collector plot was good, Bioware handled it very poorly.

[WilliamShatner]

kraidy1117 wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

I've been thinkering about writing a short treatment of how ME2 could have a better plot and be a direct continuation of ME, I have a pretty good idea how I would develop the characters and relationships, as well as some of the big dramatic beats, but the one wall I hit (besides laziness) is making the reapers an plausible villian again. The whole Citadel plan is so elaborate that you'd have to wonder why they'd use it if they had another plan. But then this is something BioWare should have known when announcing the game as a trilogy.

I find the Collector story fine, it's how it was handled. Like I can rewrite the whole plot while keeping the Collectors and the same missions but make it better. I did a rewrite somewhere where I would have added three missions into the game to give the player the feeling that they where not safe, that they could not beat the Collectors and a sence of urgancy. I also would have rewrote alot of the dialog, the cameo scenes, suicide mission and even how the personal missions where handled. In short, while the Collector plot was good, Bioware handled it very poorly.

The Collector plot would have been easier to swallow had they appeared or been reference to in ME.  Now they just seem like a cheap, throwaway villain that BioWare came up with because they needed someone for Shepard to fight in ME2 because we won't be dealing with the reapers until ME3.  It's things like that that should be planned for when you have decided from the outset to write a trilogy. 

[kraidy1117]

WilliamShatner wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

I've been thinkering about writing a short treatment of how ME2 could have a better plot and be a direct continuation of ME, I have a pretty good idea how I would develop the characters and relationships, as well as some of the big dramatic beats, but the one wall I hit (besides laziness) is making the reapers an plausible villian again. The whole Citadel plan is so elaborate that you'd have to wonder why they'd use it if they had another plan. But then this is something BioWare should have known when announcing the game as a trilogy.

I find the Collector story fine, it's how it was handled. Like I can rewrite the whole plot while keeping the Collectors and the same missions but make it better. I did a rewrite somewhere where I would have added three missions into the game to give the player the feeling that they where not safe, that they could not beat the Collectors and a sence of urgancy. I also would have rewrote alot of the dialog, the cameo scenes, suicide mission and even how the personal missions where handled. In short, while the Collector plot was good, Bioware handled it very poorly.

The Collector plot would have been easier to swallow had they appeared or been reference to in ME.  Now they just seem like a cheap, throwaway villain that BioWare came up with because they needed someone for Shepard to fight in ME2 because we won't be dealing with the reapers until ME3.  It's things like that that should be planned for when you have decided from the outset to write a trilogy. 

Meh I kinda expected the Collectors to be in ME2 before Bioware even announced them because I read the book and I found them intresting and I felt very giidy going into the relay, the problem with the plot was the Collectors had hardly any build-up. Plus the plot was just everywhere.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

kraidy1117 wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

I've been thinkering about writing a short treatment of how ME2 could have a better plot and be a direct continuation of ME, I have a pretty good idea how I would develop the characters and relationships, as well as some of the big dramatic beats, but the one wall I hit (besides laziness) is making the reapers an plausible villian again. The whole Citadel plan is so elaborate that you'd have to wonder why they'd use it if they had another plan. But then this is something BioWare should have known when announcing the game as a trilogy.

I find the Collector story fine, it's how it was handled. Like I can rewrite the whole plot while keeping the Collectors and the same missions but make it better. I did a rewrite somewhere where I would have added three missions into the game to give the player the feeling that they where not safe, that they could not beat the Collectors and a sence of urgancy. I also would have rewrote alot of the dialog, the cameo scenes, suicide mission and even how the personal missions where handled. In short, while the Collector plot was good, Bioware handled it very poorly.

My biggest problem with Harby+collectors is the fact that their little scheme is doomed from the start. If you can find a way to make it plausible, then i'm all in.

[Spornicus]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Spornicus wrote...

I'm not a "hard core ME2 fanboy who thinks the game is perfect." I know it has flaws. The planet scanning gets boring and tedious and the load screens seem even slower than the ME1 elevators. But I'm not letting obscenely trivial things get in the way of my experience playing the game. Did anyone ever consider how you would react if Bioware hadn't even included Liara? This thread would be called "BURN THE BIOWARE HQ." They added Liara because the fans demand it.

But that's not good enough. You need an immersive mission that in no way would advance the plot. But then people complain about how too much time is spent with Liara/Ashley/Kaidan/etc and not enough time is spent saving the galaxy. The larger a fanbase is, the more unappeasable it becomes. I actually found this on these forums, ironically: http://tvtropes.org/...leasableFanbase.

You know, in the show Mad Men about an advertising agency, the main character said that the one thing that gets in the way of copywriters making good advertisements is the clients. The same goes for video games. A great game could be made, but its "fans" would be up in arms about something. I see that here. Because ME1 was such a great game, people have impossibly high expectations for it. No one seems to realize that sequels almost never top the original (Dark Knight and Empire Strikes Back notwithstanding). So enjoy it for its strengths, don't hate it for its faults.

Maybe these forums aren't a great place for me. There's an awful lot of poison around.

As a guy that's actually in the advertisement business, I agree 100% with you. Which is why I always think it's best to never listen to the fans, or never just do just what a client wants. Because at the end of the day, you're talking about a group of people that have different opinions. It's like the abortion topic. If you're with it, they hate you. And if you're against it, they hate you. And in the end, they're basing their opinions on what makes "them" happy. If another group screws with that, they'll ****, ****, ****. Same goes with the other group.

If you really want to make something good, you have to do what "you" want to do. If you're only doing what people want you to do, then you're only going to go where "they" want you to go. If people don't like it, then whatever. But at least what you did was more "you" then "them".

TMA LIVE, you're all right.

[Noxis6]

WilliamShatner wrote...

I've been thinkering about writing a short treatment of how ME2 could have a better plot and be a direct continuation of ME, I have a pretty good idea how I would develop the characters and relationships, as well as some of the big dramatic beats, but the one wall I hit (besides laziness) is making the reapers an plausible villian again. The whole Citadel plan is so elaborate that you'd have to wonder why they'd use it if they had another plan. But then this is something BioWare should have known when announcing the game as a trilogy.

Well I always imagined the alternative to Sovereigns rather elaborate plot to be costly for the reapers,like building a second relay that fullfills the citadels function,in light of ME2 the collectors could have fullfilled the role of building it,also I always thought they would "march" to the galaxy after Sovereign failed but it would cause them to lose an amount of ships
Thats also a problem with the whole human reaper thing in ME2 what did they want to achieve with that,attack the citadel a second time,otherwise there are no real options how building it would have helped the reapers cause

[kraidy1117]

Lizardviking wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

I've been thinkering about writing a short treatment of how ME2 could have a better plot and be a direct continuation of ME, I have a pretty good idea how I would develop the characters and relationships, as well as some of the big dramatic beats, but the one wall I hit (besides laziness) is making the reapers an plausible villian again. The whole Citadel plan is so elaborate that you'd have to wonder why they'd use it if they had another plan. But then this is something BioWare should have known when announcing the game as a trilogy.

I find the Collector story fine, it's how it was handled. Like I can rewrite the whole plot while keeping the Collectors and the same missions but make it better. I did a rewrite somewhere where I would have added three missions into the game to give the player the feeling that they where not safe, that they could not beat the Collectors and a sence of urgancy. I also would have rewrote alot of the dialog, the cameo scenes, suicide mission and even how the personal missions where handled. In short, while the Collector plot was good, Bioware handled it very poorly.

My biggest problem with Harby+collectors is the fact that their little scheme is doomed from the start. If you can find a way to make it plausible, then i'm all in.

As I said, my rewrites even have dialog with Harby! Which was lacking plus with a enimei like the collectors the reader or player needs these feelings

Dread
Fear
Urgancy
Vegnaful

My rewrites have that, I don't have all the dialog done but I have the summary for each.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

I've been thinkering about writing a short treatment of how ME2 could have a better plot and be a direct continuation of ME, I have a pretty good idea how I would develop the characters and relationships, as well as some of the big dramatic beats, but the one wall I hit (besides laziness) is making the reapers an plausible villian again. The whole Citadel plan is so elaborate that you'd have to wonder why they'd use it if they had another plan. But then this is something BioWare should have known when announcing the game as a trilogy.

I find the Collector story fine, it's how it was handled. Like I can rewrite the whole plot while keeping the Collectors and the same missions but make it better. I did a rewrite somewhere where I would have added three missions into the game to give the player the feeling that they where not safe, that they could not beat the Collectors and a sence of urgancy. I also would have rewrote alot of the dialog, the cameo scenes, suicide mission and even how the personal missions where handled. In short, while the Collector plot was good, Bioware handled it very poorly.

My biggest problem with Harby+collectors is the fact that their little scheme is doomed from the start. If you can find a way to make it plausible, then i'm all in.

As I said, my rewrites even have dialog with Harby! Which was lacking plus with a enimei like the collectors the reader or player needs these feelings

Dread
Fear
Urgancy
Vegnaful

My rewrites have that, I don't have all the dialog done but I have the summary for each.

Also would you kindly rewrite the "derelict reaper" mission in ME2? Whoever wrote that mission should get punched for wasting an awesome oppurtunity to reveal something about the reapers and instead just created left4dead in SPAAACE!

Instead of killing waves upon waves of husk, the derelict reaper should more of a "mind ****" experince (can't come up with a better way to describe it).

Modifié par Lizardviking, 05 juin 2010 - 11:05 .

[kraidy1117]

Lizardviking wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

I've been thinkering about writing a short treatment of how ME2 could have a better plot and be a direct continuation of ME, I have a pretty good idea how I would develop the characters and relationships, as well as some of the big dramatic beats, but the one wall I hit (besides laziness) is making the reapers an plausible villian again. The whole Citadel plan is so elaborate that you'd have to wonder why they'd use it if they had another plan. But then this is something BioWare should have known when announcing the game as a trilogy.

I find the Collector story fine, it's how it was handled. Like I can rewrite the whole plot while keeping the Collectors and the same missions but make it better. I did a rewrite somewhere where I would have added three missions into the game to give the player the feeling that they where not safe, that they could not beat the Collectors and a sence of urgancy. I also would have rewrote alot of the dialog, the cameo scenes, suicide mission and even how the personal missions where handled. In short, while the Collector plot was good, Bioware handled it very poorly.

My biggest problem with Harby+collectors is the fact that their little scheme is doomed from the start. If you can find a way to make it plausible, then i'm all in.

As I said, my rewrites even have dialog with Harby! Which was lacking plus with a enimei like the collectors the reader or player needs these feelings

Dread
Fear
Urgancy
Vegnaful

My rewrites have that, I don't have all the dialog done but I have the summary for each.

Also would you kindly rewrite the "derelict reaper" mission in ME2? Whoever wrote that mission should get punched for wasting an awesome oppurtunity to reveal something about the reapers and instead just created left4dead in SPAAACE!

Instead of killing waves upon waves of husk, the derelict reaper should more of a "mind ****" experince (can't come up with a better way to describe it).

I loved the Reaper IFF but it failed because the Collector plot was just so bad that when you get to the Reaper IFF the only good thing about it was Legion. When I saw Legion I screamed at my TV!