50907 réponses à ce sujet

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Noxis6 wrote...

Also I know people around here seem to be quite eager to cram the reapers into this story arc to somehow give it more substance,I'm not sure it really deserves that nor am I sure if that would actually help it or make it better,frankly I think the SB is a good enough villain on his own,also on what exactly is this based on,because he made a deal with the Collectors,then Okeer must have been one too,many make deals with them since they seem to pay quite good
Or is it the vague speculation that he was with the Collectors in person,which would be kind of strange for one of the most ellusive persons of the galaxy,who never deals with anyone in person to suddenly change that
Also after Sovereign went down the reapers have no physical presence in the galaxy,thoug Harbinger made me wish Sovereign was still alive at times,at least the later was sort of menacing

See, this is what I don't get with you, you constantly whine and whinge about how Liara's motivations are weak and don't make any sense and blah blah blah, but when someone proposes a perfectly plausible theory as to why Liara is hunting the Shadow Broker, if you perhaps don't think that her reasons in the first place are sufficient enough, you then try to disregard them by saying "Oh no, that wouldn't work, I'd rather such and such be kept out of it." Why? Doesn't implementing a stronger reasoning behind Liara's hunt make it all better? Or do you just want an excuse to ****** and whinge?

The problem is, it's a theory, LET. You're trying to make something bigger in order to make things better. People don't want that. They want to love someone based on who they are, not what they want them to be.

[TMA LIVE]

bjdbwea wrote...
*snip*

I didn't say it was perfect. There should never have been any need to find a way to keep them out of ME 2 in the first place. It should have been a continuation of ME 1, and the team should have stayed the same, give or take a few.

That said, I would have preferred my suggestion over the botched, artificial and incoherent roles they gave the characters now. As far as the cheating is concerned: Well, maybe many players wouldn't have done so if the could look forward to the rescue of and reunion with their favourite character? Who knows how many just moved on because their LIs were just written so badly and disappointingly? Of course if they still decided to cheat, it would be much worse. But so what, it's still everyone's own decision.

Part 3 could have been exactly what it hopefully will be now: A proper continuation of the travel and the romance.

I have my reasons for moving on, because I was in pain, and found new love. Or I didn't move on, because I can't, and it's painful. As Shepard says to Jacob, everyone's changed because Shepard was gone, "And I'm still the same." It's the theme of ME2. Change is painful, especially when they turn into something you can't love. Because of this, Liara has more depth then a Mario plot. You have have more depth then a Mario plot. And her romance, whether it continues or ends because of ME2, has more depth.

Just saying. My opinion.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 05 juin 2010 - 11:26 .

[kraidy1117]

TMA LIVE wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...
*snip*

I didn't say it was perfect. There should never have been any need to find a way to keep them out of ME 2 in the first place. It should have been a continuation of ME 1, and the team should have stayed the same, give or take a few.

That said, I would have preferred my suggestion over the botched, artificial and incoherent roles they gave the characters now. As far as the cheating is concerned: Well, maybe many players wouldn't have done so if the could look forward to the rescue of and reunion with their favourite character? Who knows how many just moved on because their LIs were just written so badly and disappointingly? Of course if they still decided to cheat, it would be much worse. But so what, it's still everyone's own decision.

Part 3 could have been exactly what it hopefully will be now: A proper continuation of the travel and the romance.

I have my reasons for moving on, because I was in pain, and found new love. Or I didn't move on, because I can't, and it's painful. As Shepard says to Jacob, everyone's changed because Shepard was gone, "And I'm still the same." It's the theme of ME2. Change is painful, especially when they turn into something you can't love. Because of this, Liara has more depth then a Mario plot. You have have more depth then a Mario plot. And her romance, whether it continues or ends because of ME2, has more depth.

Just saying. My opinion.

They could have done a better job.

[TMA LIVE]

kraidy1117 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...
*snip*

I didn't say it was perfect. There should never have been any need to find a way to keep them out of ME 2 in the first place. It should have been a continuation of ME 1, and the team should have stayed the same, give or take a few.

That said, I would have preferred my suggestion over the botched, artificial and incoherent roles they gave the characters now. As far as the cheating is concerned: Well, maybe many players wouldn't have done so if the could look forward to the rescue of and reunion with their favourite character? Who knows how many just moved on because their LIs were just written so badly and disappointingly? Of course if they still decided to cheat, it would be much worse. But so what, it's still everyone's own decision.

Part 3 could have been exactly what it hopefully will be now: A proper continuation of the travel and the romance.

I have my reasons for moving on, because I was in pain, and found new love. Or I didn't move on, because I can't, and it's painful. As Shepard says to Jacob, everyone's changed because Shepard was gone, "And I'm still the same." It's the theme of ME2. Change is painful, especially when they turn into something you can't love. Because of this, Liara has more depth then a Mario plot. You have have more depth then a Mario plot. And her romance, whether it continues or ends because of ME2, has more depth.

Just saying. My opinion.

They could have done a better job.

Yep.

[Noxis6]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
What? That wasn't the point or purpose of what I was trying to say at all. What I was saying is that the guy constantly whines about Liara's motivations and the whole arc being built on flimsy foundations, but when someone posts a very plausible and possible explanation it's disregarded with little more than "Nah, don't want that, don't like it." I'm not trying to say that you should be obliged to be believe any theories in order to make things better, just that the poster in question disregards any theory because it compromises said poster's ability to whinge.

It's not about whether I'm trying to make Liara's whole plot seem bigger or better at all, as I actually think with sufficient clarification and exposition it's very believeable, but that it's just been executed badly. That's even without considering any SB/Reaper theories. I'm just trying to make a point that I think the poster readily disregards any plausible theories because it gives him an ability to whine.

I know this is slightly offtopic but I want to clarify English is not my native language and I'm not illiterate,just so you can continue your badmouthing correctly in the fangroup,also I reported one of your posts there I found insulting,well thats that and I propably wasted more words for that then necessary 

Anyway on topic there are hardly plausible theories,as for the the SB/Reaper thing,I still say it needs a build up rather then just getting thrown at us in a DLC out of nowhere

Modifié par Noxis6, 05 juin 2010 - 11:46 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

kraidy1117 wrote...

They could have done a better job.

This is what is ultimatively wrong with ME2. It's wasted potential. The ideas are there, but they did a mediocre job with it.

[kraidy1117]

Lizardviking wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

They could have done a better job.

This is what is ultimatively wrong with ME2. It's wasted potential. The ideas are there, but they did a mediocre job with it.

Good ideas, just done like a pile of crap rolled up windy mountain.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Good ideas, just done like a pile of crap rolled up windy mountain.

Heh. Your way of describing it is better I think.

[kraidy1117]

Lizardviking wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Good ideas, just done like a pile of crap rolled up windy mountain.

Heh. Your way of describing it is better I think.

Conker refrence FTW!!!!

[bjdbwea]

TMA LIVE wrote...

I have my reasons for moving on, because I was in pain, and found new love. Or I didn't move on, because I can't, and it's painful. As Shepard says to Jacob, everyone's changed because Shepard was gone, "And I'm still the same." It's the theme of ME2. Change is painful, especially when they turn into something you can't love. Because of this, Liara has more depth then a Mario plot. You have have more depth then a Mario plot. And her romance, whether it continues or ends because of ME2, has more depth.

Just saying. My opinion.

And you're entitled to it, even though I don't really understand what you're saying. You've made up your own explanations, and that's fine, but nothing of it is in the game. There is no depth. Just a botched scene that doesn't even attempt to be deep. You could still make up your own stuff if Liara had a proper role, even if it were just a "Mario plot" simple one.

Just like you could still have pursued your Tali romance. Even if Liara would have remained a proper alternative. Maybe you wouldn't have liked to choose, maybe that's why you are okay with what they did to Liara?

[kraidy1117]

bjdbwea wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I have my reasons for moving on, because I was in pain, and found new love. Or I didn't move on, because I can't, and it's painful. As Shepard says to Jacob, everyone's changed because Shepard was gone, "And I'm still the same." It's the theme of ME2. Change is painful, especially when they turn into something you can't love. Because of this, Liara has more depth then a Mario plot. You have have more depth then a Mario plot. And her romance, whether it continues or ends because of ME2, has more depth.

Just saying. My opinion.

And you're entitled to it, even though I don't really understand what you're saying. You've made up your own explanations, and that's fine, but nothing of it is in the game. There is no depth. Just a botched scene that doesn't even attempt to be deep. You could still make up your own stuff if Liara had a proper role, even if it were just a "Mario plot" simple one.

Just like you could still have pursued your Tali romance. Even if Liara would have remained a proper alternative. Maybe you wouldn't have liked to choose, maybe that's why you are okay with what they did to Liara?

While your idea does sound intresting, I just don't like the whole rescue thing my self. The cameos could have been amazing, if Bioware took there time and put heart into and not put together in the last second.

[Spornicus]

I can't find anything about LET insulting your grammar noxis.

[Mithran88]

how about we talk more about Liara and less about simple infighting amongst Liara fans... Just a thought

-everyone is entitled to his/her ideas, none are wrong nor right in theory. I don't understand why people must argue with bricks to make "their" point.

[TMA LIVE]

bjdbwea wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I have my reasons for moving on, because I was in pain, and found new love. Or I didn't move on, because I can't, and it's painful. As Shepard says to Jacob, everyone's changed because Shepard was gone, "And I'm still the same." It's the theme of ME2. Change is painful, especially when they turn into something you can't love. Because of this, Liara has more depth then a Mario plot. You have have more depth then a Mario plot. And her romance, whether it continues or ends because of ME2, has more depth.

Just saying. My opinion.

And you're entitled to it, even though I don't really understand what you're saying. You've made up your own explanations, and that's fine, but nothing of it is in the game. There is no depth. Just a botched scene that doesn't even attempt to be deep. You could still make up your own stuff if Liara had a proper role, even if it were just a "Mario plot" simple one.

Just like you could still have pursued your Tali romance. Even if Liara would have remained a proper alternative. Maybe you wouldn't have liked to choose, maybe that's why you are okay with what they did to Liara?

I don't see Liara as an alternative. I see Liara as something I can't do anything about, but still feel like I'm not giving her a chance (which is why I'm waiting for the DLC). I hate the scene, yet it's on my mind a lot. Heck, I doubt you were supposed to like it. Most likely the point was to make you want to move on. In my case, it worked. To some, it doesn't. Either way, that's the drama. That's the way I see it.

[Noxis6]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
I apologise for the illiteracy remark, then. That doesn't mean that I do not disagree with your posts any less, I still think you're way off base in what you say. If you're reporting me for disagreeing with you, then grow up.

Also, SB/Reaper thing not having any build up? The Shadow Broker is working with the Collectors, agents of the Reapers. How the hell is that not build up?

That's just one of many, though.

First things first I didnt report you for disagreeing with me,I found callng me illiterate a bit insulting,granted I hardly write in perfect english,also I found doing it in the rather false security of a fangroup rather impolite,though I can accept the apology and there is no need to carry this further

So and now on topic,it is correct the SB was hired to get Shepards body back so far so good,yet there is no indication their relationship goes beyond that,sure theres this mysterious data cache flying around but it never sees the light,also the SB is well pretty much nonexistant in the game
Sure we have Nyxeris but thats it,no signs that he wants to catch Shepard,of course while you could take the Warden as a hint its more likely the Collectors put out the bounty themselves,sadly after Purgatory it never gets picked up again
So there are no real hints to a deeper relationship taking Liaras "whatever hes doing with the Collectors" as a hint is rather weak,now if there was something like I dont know Liara found something in Nyxeris files that hints to a deeper connection and she would tell you about it,that would be a somewhat acceptable built up,they could still have her say she needs to do more research into this and will contact you should she find more and we even would have a lead up to a DLC

Modifié par Noxis6, 06 juin 2010 - 12:11 .

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Noxis6 wrote...

I know this is slightly offtopic but I want to clarify English is not my native language and I'm not illiterate,just so you can continue your badmouthing correctly in the fangroup,also I reported one of your posts there I found insulting,well thats that and I propably wasted more words for that then necessary 

Anyway on topic there are hardly plausible theories,as for the the SB/Reaper thing,I still say it needs a build up rather then just getting thrown at us in a DLC out of nowhere

I apologise for the illiteracy remark, then. That doesn't mean that I do not disagree with your posts any less, I still think you're way off base in what you say. If you're reporting me for disagreeing with you, then grow up.

Also, SB/Reaper thing not having any build up? The Shadow Broker is working with the Collectors, agents of the Reapers. How the hell is that not build up?

That's just one of many, though.

We don't know if he still is working for the Collectors.

[kraidy1117]

Mithran88 wrote...

how about we talk more about Liara and less about simple infighting amongst Liara fans... Just a thought
-everyone is entitled to his/her ideas, none are wrong nor right in theory. I don't understand why people must argue with bricks to make "their" point.

Sadly this always happens. Both games are fantastic, and noth have flaws. Both are not even in my top 10 if that makes anyone happy

[TMA LIVE]

Mithran88 wrote...

how about we talk more about Liara and less about simple infighting amongst Liara fans... Just a thought
-everyone is entitled to his/her ideas, none are wrong nor right in theory. I don't understand why people must argue with bricks to make "their" point.

The ME2 Liara treatment has made us all bitter. Also, there's isn't much more to talk about till the DLC in announced.

[kraidy1117]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Mithran88 wrote...

how about we talk more about Liara and less about simple infighting amongst Liara fans... Just a thought
-everyone is entitled to his/her ideas, none are wrong nor right in theory. I don't understand why people must argue with bricks to make "their" point.

The ME2 Liara treatment has made us all bitter. Also, there's isn't much more to talk about till the DLC in announced.

Or till Bioware comfirms everyone gets cameos and we get a new band of badasses

[Sunnie]

Mithran88 wrote...

how about we talk more about Liara and less about simple infighting amongst Liara fans... Just a thought
-everyone is entitled to his/her ideas, none are wrong nor right in theory. I don't understand why people must argue with bricks to make "their" point.

Why do people argue? It's quite simple really. People argue when you leave a subject so vague and full of holes. Everyone has a slightly different thought process so eveyone tends to fill all the holes and blanks with what they imagine and then convince themselves that its the only logical way. When different people with differing opinions start to discuss them with each other, it usually ends up in arguements when the dirrent people are so convinced their version is "the" correct one, and can't get past themselves. This has happened here, and in every other character support thread.  One would have to be nieve to think it will ever not be this way.

OH and, I love Liara! BW, you ruined her character!

[Crimmsonwind]

The only reason SB would be working with the Collectors at this point would be to settle a grudge. The Shadow Broker doesn't work "for" anyone, he just trades information, and apparently bodies on occasion. The Collectors paid the Shadow Broker for what I can only assume is Shepard's genetic info in the form of a corpse, and received credits and possibly Collector tech or info on tech in return.



Even then, the Collectors were just the middlemen between the SB and the Reapers. He was never working for the Collectors in the first place. It's possible that the Reapers are still trading with the Shadow Broker; maybe they're promising not to kill him when they come out of dark space in exchange for whatever information he has that they find valuable. Most likely information on military secrets, troop numbers, and anything they can use to keep the sentient races from uniting against them if it comes to that.



To be honest, I have a feeling that Liara could have very easily been killed by the Shadow Broker if he wanted her dead (though it pains me to say that). She may have some serious biotics on her side, but one well-placed sniper shot through that giant window in her office, and she's done for. It's possible that he's keeping tabs on her, just as I'm sure Cerberus is.



But a lot can happen in ME3. So I guess we just have to wait and see. Maybe we'll see another round of comics, too. Those could shed some light on things. Or the rumored DLC, that would be fantastic.

[pf17456]

Noxis6 wrote...



So and now on topic,it is correct the SB was hired to get Shepards body back so far so good

Building upon a theory must have an origin. It really isn't enough to say the SB was hired to get Shepard's body when there is no particular reason given other than TIM saying that Shepard killed a reaper. We do know that the Collectors engage in genitic experiments so this begs the question about what it is about Shepard's genitic makeup that makes Shepard so important to the Collectors and ultimately to the Reapers. That's where the theory should begin. Does Shepard's DNA hold some key to get the Reapers out of Dark Space ? Did Shepard's encounter with Prothean beacons somehow alter Shepard's genitics ? The Thorian ? The encounter with Soverign ? Something plausable in this regard would speak to why TIM wanted Shepard restored to original form and having the answer to that would help explain Liara's guilt. I think the SB was only after money but TIM's motives seem much more ambitious.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

pf17456 wrote...

Noxis6 wrote...



So and now on topic,it is correct the SB was hired to get Shepards body back so far so good

Building upon a theory must have an origin. It really isn't enough to say the SB was hired to get Shepard's body when there is no particular reason given other than TIM saying that Shepard killed a reaper. We do know that the Collectors engage in genitic experiments so this begs the question about what it is about Shepard's genitic makeup that makes Shepard so important to the Collectors and ultimately to the Reapers. That's where the theory should begin. Does Shepard's DNA hold some key to get the Reapers out of Dark Space ? Did Shepard's encounter with Prothean beacons somehow alter Shepard's genitics ? The Thorian ? The encounter with Soverign ? Something plausable in this regard would speak to why TIM wanted Shepard restored to original form and having the answer to that would help explain Liara's guilt. I think the SB was only after money but TIM's motives seem much more ambitious.

I always imagined that the reapers original idea was to get Shepard's body so they could get a new "Saren" so to speak, an deep-cover agent. It could also serve as a moral blow to organics to wacht their champion be reduced to a reaper puppet. Thereby showing what fate awaits them if they resist.