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[JPfanner]

St Mael wrote...

JPfanner wrote...

I'm at A, simply because there is only one reason Liara would ever be remotely against Shepard since she knows what the stakes are. And I sure as hell don't want Liara to be indoctrinated. There isn't any "light" or "dark" side in this game beyond having free will or being some brain raped indoctrinated slave. Having that happen to her wouldn't be intriguing or interesting to me at all, it'd just be like a slap in the face and I'd be disgusted.

She's obviously not indoctrinated, and she isn't against Shepard either.

I was talking about looking forward to ME3.  That there is no way she would naturally be against him, she is one of the few people in the galaxy who knows what the stakes are; she even came up with the galactic extinction theory on her own before meeting Shepard.  The whole needing to redeem her doesn't appeal to me either, because it would be needlessly angsty to go through when a lot of people either won't care or will just put a bullet in her like Shiala.

[jbauck]

JPfanner wrote...
I was talking about looking forward to ME3.  That there is no way she would naturally be against him, she is one of the few people in the galaxy who knows what the stakes are; she even came up with the galactic extinction theory on her own before meeting Shepard.  The whole needing to redeem her doesn't appeal to me either, because it would be needlessly angsty to go through when a lot of people either won't care or will just put a bullet in her like Shiala.

I actually agree here.  My personal reading of Liara in ME1-through-ME2 is that she's way in love with Shep whether Shep reciprocates or not (Liara likes two things: Protheans and Shep).  So, yeah, the only way I buy her as a villain in ME3 is if she's indoctrinated.  Which I would hate.  I think we can ALL agree on that point.  Largely because the only way I could see her becoming indoctrinated in the first place is if the Shadow Broker is, in fact, a Reaper Agent (I still hate that idea).

Otherwise, ME1 Love Interest Becoming Indoctrinated and Shep Must Find an Indoctrination Cure (really ... Shep is going to need this in ME3 anyway ... might as well add a LI hook to the whole thing) isn't too terrible, especially when compared with ME2.  Provided it happened incredibly early (like - first thing Shep does) and the ME1 LI was a squaddie the entire game after that.  But - Faithful To ME1 LI Big Payoff = Late-Game-ME3 Love-Conquers-Indoctrination?  That would be painfully, epically, tragically bad.

Ack!  Quick - someone please come up with ME3/Liara DLC content that would actually make us happy ... my brain is sliding into the dark abyss of all the things that could go horribly wrong in ME3/Liara DLC!  Or ... pretty screenshot!  Stat!

[jbauck]

Littledoom wrote...

[Pineappletree]

[jbauck]

Littledoom wrote...

The abyss isn't big enough for the both of us so I do what I can to keep you out of it

And thank you for that.  Now that I'm feeling better - here's my DLC/ME3 scenario:

DLC - Shadow Broker Vengeance Kick Resolved.  During this resolution/mission, Liara actually TALKS to Shep.  Shep actually talks back.  There's a whole "conversation" thing happening.  It ends with:
Paragon Option: Shep stops Liara from killing the Shadow Broker, because terrible bloody vengeance is WRONG.  Liara recovers from her dark path. 
Far-More-Satisfying-Paragon-Renegade-Mix Option: Shep kills the Shadow Broker before Liara can do it herself, to spare her from the guilty-conscience angst of actually tracking down and murdering someone.  Liara recovers from her dark path, but is a little sadder and wiser.
Disturbingly-Satisfying-Because-I-Like-Playing-Paragon-Renegade-Option: Both the Shadow Broker and Feron die a painful, horrible death.  There is much rejoicing.

Regardless - with that Shadow Broker stuff out of the way, Liara either ends up on the Normandy with Shep where she belongs (LI option) or is going through the Shadow Broker's data to try to find things to help Shep against Collectors/Reapers (not LI option). 

ME3: Liara is either still on the Normandy (Liara LI ending from DLC) or has completed her data-quest (non-LI ending from DLC).  If Liara was not a LI in ME1, Shep is given the opportunity to romance her in ME3, because it's so completely obvious that she's the only one who ever really loved Shep anyway.  If Liara was an ME1 LI and Shep cheated, Liara will be so totally awesome that Shep will feel terrible, but, as I mentioned before, will not be able to win back her affections without hunting down and bringing her 50 Prothean Data Disks.  From the Mako.

Regardless of relationship status, Liara will be a completely awesome and powerful squaddie with a way improved Singularity like in ME1.  This will be one of her normal powers.  Her "special" power will be Biotic Crush with which she reduces her enemies to tiny bits that will fit in a coffee cup.

Liara will also use her Super Archaeologist Powers in a completely satisfying plot-driven way, in which she figures out something incredibly and hugely important like "Ilos!  The Conduit is on Ilos!"

After that, a Shep that is romancing Liara will have the opportunity to declare his/her undying love and devotion (because smart chicks are just so ... ).  Because Shep is no fool, Shep will immediately marry her.  Joker will be the Best Man/Maid of Honor (he'll wear a very pretty taffeta bridesmaid dress if he is the Maid of Honor for a Fem!Shep).  The actual main plot will continue with a resounding defeat of the Reapers due in no small part to Liara's Super Archaeologist Powers, and the epilogue will have Shep and Liara flying off into the Galactic Equivalent Of Sunset to live happily ever after.  There is much schmoopiness and hugs and puppies and rainbows.

ETA: okay - the puppies and rainbows might be a little overboard.  But still - Liara + Shep = Happy Ending.  Self-evident like 2+2 = 4, but also far more satisfying.

Modifié par jbauck, 20 février 2010 - 09:27 .

[bjdbwea]

jbauck wrote...

DLC - Shadow Broker Vengeance Kick Resolved. During this resolution/mission, Liara actually TALKS to Shep. Shep actually talks back. There's a whole "conversation" thing happening. It ends with:

Paragon Option: Shep stops Liara from killing the Shadow Broker, because terrible bloody vengeance is WRONG. Liara recovers from her dark path.

Far-More-Satisfying-Paragon-Renegade-Mix Option: Shep kills the Shadow Broker before Liara can do it herself, to spare her from the guilty-conscience angst of actually tracking down and murdering someone. Liara recovers from her dark path, but is a little sadder and wiser.

Disturbingly-Satisfying-Because-I-Like-Playing-Paragon-Renegade-Option: Both the Shadow Broker and Feron die a painful, horrible death. There is much rejoicing.

Exactly. When I spoke of redeeming earlier, that doesn't necessarily mean she'd have to have become a real villain, nor indoctrinated, let alone an enemy. Just look how she behaves in ME 2. Quite cruel, isn't it. The events after ME 1 could have changed her to be like this. One way to continue the relationship would be for Shepard either to accept and encourage her new character - or to try and get back the old Liara.

But given the history of BioWare DLCs, I doubt something like that will happen there. They are all too short, and apart from BdtS, all superficial and unsubstantial. Conclusion: BioWare/EA figures that DLCs must be quick and cheap to produce, otherwise it doesn't pay off (as much as they want anyway). Would gladly be proven wrong of course. I for one have never bought DLC for any game for the above reasons, but even though I do think this content should have been in the main game, I might just buy this if it's done as you describe. But I won't hold my breath and rather hope that ME 3 will not only bring back the real Liara, but the real BioWare as well.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 20 février 2010 - 09:52 .

[Fromyou]

That would nice though I hope that she will be NICE and not so cold hearted

[St Mael]

Does anybody else here hope that we might get news about Liara DLC at GDC? As you may now there was a thread about Casey Hudson revealing info on future DLC at the conference. Although it is just a rumor and GDC seems like an odd place to reveal info like that, I mean it's mostly aimed at other developers instead of the public market.

[ratzerman]

Well.... wasn't Gears of War 2 announced at GDC?

It's unlikely we'll hear about any DLC, but not impossible.

[DigitalMaster37]

St Mael wrote...

Does anybody else here hope that we might get news about Liara DLC at GDC? As you may now there was a thread about Casey Hudson revealing info on future DLC at the conference. Although it is just a rumor and GDC seems like an odd place to reveal info like that, I mean it's mostly aimed at other developers instead of the public market.

I do, but whatever it is, I hope it doesn't jeopardize her chances of returning in ME3.

[ratzerman]

FdL_Ananas wrote...

These are incredible!  Thanks for sharing!

[St Mael]

ratzerman wrote...

Well.... wasn't Gears of War 2 announced at GDC?

Yeah, but that's the only major announcement I know of that was ever made at GDC. I just remember how this time last year we were all hoping for big announcements regarding ME2 at GDC, but Chris kept shooting us down saying that it shouldn't concern us since we weren't developers and stuff like that to not get our hopes up. So remembering that, it just seems that the Bioware marketing department doesn't consider GDC appropriate for that sort of thing.

Now that I think about those times I just remembered the excitement and uncontainable glee that I had when thinking about ME 2 back then, when I didn't know anything about what they had in store for Liara and was expecting the world from her. Ah, how disappointment hit me right in the quads  .

Modifié par St Mael, 20 février 2010 - 11:37 .

[morrie23]

FdL_Ananas, they are bloody awesome, thanks for posting them!

[Fiannawolf]

Honestly, when both my Sheps that romanced Liara walked into her office, massive confusion took place. Mainly because I wanted an interupt that caused Shep to remove the creeepy Nixy from the room. Or prehaps have Garrus and Tali totally nock her upside the head and then wink at my Sheps. Yes! That would work, they would interact with Liara as former SR1 buddies and remove the stalker-like helper from the room.

[Pineappletree]

Youre welcome

Here's a bit of Liara happyness:



I'll continue the screenshot hunt

Modifié par FdL_Ananas, 21 février 2010 - 01:18 .

[Taritu]

I'd rather have her as a major character/squadmate in ME3 than have her resolved in ME2 DLC which most players will never see.

[jbauck]

FdL_Ananas wrote...

Youre welcome

Here's a bit of Liara happyness:



I'll continue the screenshot hunt

These are great - thank you! 

[jbauck]

Taritu wrote...

I'd rather have her as a major character/squadmate in ME3 than have her resolved in ME2 DLC which most players will never see.

Well, yes - absolutely - if it's an either/or choice.  But the Liara vs. SB arc starts in the comic books, is two silly hacking sidequests in ME2, and given that - I'd like that arc tied up in ME2 DLC, leaving Liara available to immediately be a squaddie in ME3.

Really, most players won't see the beginning of the SB arc, because it's in the comic books, so why not end that arc in DLC that most players also won't see?  That way, they'd be free to really tailor it for Liara fans, as they would be the vast, vast majority of buyers - and ME3 won't have this dangling SB arc hanging out there.  IME3 can concentrate on the Reapers.  With Liara as a squaddie, of course - ME3 can just assume a resolution of the Liara/SB DLC the way ME2 has defaults for all the major choices in ME1.

[Nozybidaj]

jbauck wrote...

Taritu wrote...

I'd rather have her as a major character/squadmate in ME3 than have her resolved in ME2 DLC which most players will never see.

Well, yes - absolutely - if it's an either/or choice.  But the Liara vs. SB arc starts in the comic books, is two silly hacking sidequests in ME2, and given that - I'd like that arc tied up in ME2 DLC, leaving Liara available to immediately be a squaddie in ME3.

Really, most players won't see the beginning of the SB arc, because it's in the comic books, so why not end that arc in DLC that most players also won't see?  That way, they'd be free to really tailor it for Liara fans, as they would be the vast, vast majority of buyers - and ME3 won't have this dangling SB arc hanging out there.  IME3 can concentrate on the Reapers.  With Liara as a squaddie, of course - ME3 can just assume a resolution of the Liara/SB DLC the way ME2 has defaults for all the major choices in ME1.

Agreed.

[Phen0m20]

FdL_Ananas wrote...

Youre welcome

Here's a bit of Liara happyness:



I'll continue the screenshot hunt

This should have been the picture in Shepard's quarters.

[JPfanner]

She could be in M3 without any additional on screen resolution. I mean look at the string of coincidences that lead to the recruitment of Garrus and Tali in ME2. So having her wrap up the Shadow Broker issue in the background in some manner explained through a few lines of dialog isn't any less contrived. I'd assume there is going to be at least some passage of time between the end of ME2 and the start of ME3.



I think they will do some more with DLC though, especially with the comic. It'll just be optional to what you experience in ME3. Like she'll be there in ME3 but whether that is because she resolved it on her own (if you didn't do, or screwed up her missions in ME2), with your help in catching the Observer, or with your help in the DLC. Just a few different dialog choices and knowledge on your part of the specifics of that resolution being the only difference.



Shepard will be trying to stop the Reapers once and for all, at least I think that is the consensus for the plot of ME3. All of ME2 was pretty much spent as Counselor Shepard, combing the galaxy to bring psychological well-being to squadmates. I'd rather they focused time on developing an interesting, satisfying continuation and resolution of the relationship between Liara and Shepard (and even with your other friends) that didn't involve gunning people down. That should really be handled between Liara and Shepard themselves and not a mission entry.