50907 réponses à ce sujet

[pf17456]

TMA LIVE wrote...


Well, I do do the quest in the end, but I (me personally) didn't like that she asked me to help kill someone, and that if I didn't help, she'd kill all 5. That's it. And I said that, because (from my Shepard's POV), he doesn't know about the Shadow Broker and his body. He just knows Liara wants to kill him because he might have Feron, and that killing the Observer makes her closer to killing him. I would continue with more to say, but I'm really, really, really tired of typing the same thing.

I think Liara asking Shepard for help in trying to wack someone suggests she's got some issues to deal with and she's taken a step toward the dark side much like Garrus. You go to the Citidal with Garrus knowing his intent is a revenge assassination and you choose the P or R option in the end. I think Liara's quest will end in a similar fashion. As things turn out though by following through with Liara's quest you wind up saving her life by exposing her secretary.

[TMA LIVE]

Either way, I know my Shepard wants to trust her. I guess the bested example I can think of is, imagine me as Ash talking to Shepard on Horizon. Ash said she wanted to trust Shepard, but can't believe he's working for Cerberus. Imagine that with me and Liara.

[Master Wolf]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Master Wolf wrote...

Perhaps after SB failed in recover Shepard's body Harbinger decided to make him pay in a productive way and after the colecter ship misson the report mention something about Harbinger information network being as big as SB and cerberus perhaps that's because he's geting is information from SB, but I think that the SB was only indoctrinated after Redemption because he is prety defiante in the first issue.

The Shadow Broker is actually an incredibly useful tool for the Reapers to exploit. With the Citadel relay now unavailable to them, the Reapers now have no way to acquire information on government, ecomonics, colonies, militaries, dispersal of people etc, something which they have always had and utilised at the beginning of each harvest. They could therefore use an indoctrinated Shadow Broker to compensate for losing the Citadel, and use the SB's vast wealth of knowledge for what they need. Vigil even foreshadows this in ME1 by saying "Knowledge is power".

I fully expect that the SB is assisting the Reapers, and that Liara is aware of this.

Especialy now that the collectores were destroyed.

[bjdbwea]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Well when it comes to my Shepard, he feels like he doesn't know her anymore. He wants to trust her, but doesn't, because he feels like she's a completley different person, and won't talk to him (at least that's how I felt on my first playthrough). That's just my POV, anyways. Well, I don't know about "Don't trust". Maybe it's just too hard to believe. I don't know.

If only it were just that. That could actually be an interesting development, as long as it's resolved some day of course. But I can't even "role-play" my Shepard in that situation, can't imagine what my Shepard might think, because all I see is an unbelievable and incoherent scene. Talk about destroying immersion.

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Well when it comes to my Shepard, he feels like he doesn't know her anymore. He wants to trust her, but doesn't, because he feels like she's a completley different person, and won't talk to him (at least that's how I felt on my first playthrough). That's just my POV, anyways. Well, I don't know about "Don't trust". Maybe it's just too hard to believe. I don't know.

My Shepard trusts that Liara is capable of handling her own business and still maintains a sensible and compassionate core, in spite of her current predicamate, so never had a problem helping her, even if it was a bit blindly. 

[Sunnie]

jlb524 wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

leeboi2 wrote...

360 ftw Marcin I didn't have a single problem with it, pc's are just problems tbh

PC here and rarely crash.  Don't have to switch discs either.  Am ready foir the 5 DVD disc ME3! 

Yeah!  No disc swapping is another PC benefit.  Mine doesn't crash that much either.  If it does, it happens on the same day for some reason.

Mine only crashes when I make a booboo modding something...

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Liara even draws attention to the friendship and trust issues.

"It should be about friendship or trust, but that's not how it works on Illium."

That's all Liara asks of you. That you trust her as a friend or lover that she's doing the right thing. She asks or expects nothing else of you.

Again, I think I feel like what Ash and Kaidan feels when Shepard shows up. They want to trust Shepard, but can't believe he's working with Cerberus. And even though Shepard asks for help, they both say no because they can't work for Cerberus, and because they're loyal to the Alliance. With me, I want to trust her, but can't believe she's doing what she's doing, and when she asks for help, I don't want to do it, because doing so feels like a betrayal of my beliefs.

Anyways, thanks for being nice people guys. I feel more like I'm discussing then fighting off attacks. You're all a great group of people.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 17 juin 2010 - 07:46 .

[pf17456]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Liara even draws attention to the friendship and trust issues.

"It should be about friendship or trust, but that's not how it works on Illium."

That's all Liara asks of you. That you trust her as a friend or lover that she's doing the right thing. She asks or expects nothing else of you.

My Shepard trusts Liara more than any other character in the Mass Effect Universe. Liara is Shepard's rock and she will never betray. Shepard also will never betray Liara. Without Liara the Reapers win

[jlb524]

Liara also isn't working for a large well-known and well-funded terrorist organization.

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

It's not really fair to compare the Horizon scene with Liara's scenes, due to Shepard's dialogue choices being so incredibly vague and derpy. Like I said, Liara is very honest and forthright about what she's doing, and why she's doing it. She just asks you to trust her, and believe that she's doing the right thing.

On Horizon, Shepard acts like a moron and gives some vague, crappy answer trying to justify working for Cerberus with some of the weakest excuses possible. Plus, Ash and Kaidan openly admit later that they lost their heads a little, and blew up somewhat. They weren't thinking entirely rationally.

If romanced though. But they are the same. Shepard is as honest and vague as Liara. Everything he/she is saying is the truth, and Ash/Kaidan can't believe it. Also, talking about my thoughts till after Liara's scenes are ober. And Shepard didn't ask Ash to help kill someone (well, unless you count the Collectors.)

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

Liara also isn't working for a large well-known and well-funded terrorist organization.

But she does want you to help her in killing someone, or will kill all 5 people. They are the same. At least from my POV.

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Liara also isn't working for a large well-known and well-funded terrorist organization.

Yes. On the contrary, Liara is actually working to neutralise an entity referred to by Anderson in ME1 as a "necessary evil of galactic politics."

Since when was the Shadow Broker some kind of sympathetic figure?

But she is threatening to skin people alive with her mind. And asks you to help her kill someone, or she'll kill all 5.

Also, Shepard said he's going to kill the Collectors. The same things that took everyone. That was his noble goal.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 17 juin 2010 - 08:04 .

[TMA LIVE]

double post. Sorry.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 17 juin 2010 - 08:00 .

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

But she does want you to help her in killing someone, or will kill all 5 people. They are the same. At least from my POV.

Right, so Shepard showing up after two years, working for a known abhorrent terrorist organisation and giving some of the most vague and bullsh!t reasons to attempt to justify it is the same as Liara requesting help to eliminate a target out of self defence, a target who is not innocent at all and in which she is very honest about why she is doing so?

Jeez.

He tells her he's doing it because he's after the Collectors, and because the Alliance isn't doing ****. The same creatures that took everyone. He tells them, "You know me. I'd only do this for the right reasons." Everything he says is true.

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Liara also isn't working for a large well-known and well-funded terrorist organization.

But she does want you to help her in killing someone, or will kill all 5 people. They are the same. At least from my POV.

Shepard kills thugs all the time...even helps other squad mates kill thugs.  I think the Liara thing is similar to that (killing mercs/thugs).

Cerberus is responsible for great heinous deeds....they've wiped out colonies with their experiments, for example, and they are a much greater threat to life than Liara is.

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Also, why is Liara wanting to kill a person, a person who is far from innocent, out of self defence and in order to further her goals so abhorrently bad? Isn't Shepard gunning down random Eclipse goon #234 on the way to recruiting Thane alot worse?

Shepard doesn't know anything except "I want to kill this person, to kill that person". And if you read the data, the people that are on the hit list aren't even Shadow Broker agents. Instead, they are people the Observer is spying on. And you don't know the Observer is Liara's assistant till later. In the end, it's all vague and shady. And a merc goon at least is shooting at you. It's easier to tell he's a bad guy.

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

He tells her he's doing it because he's after the Collectors, and because the Alliance isn't doing ****. The same creatures that took everyone. He tells them, "You know me. I'd only do this for the right reasons." Everything he says is true.

So? Liara happens to be targeting the Shadow Broker, an entity manipulating galactic society for it's own needs for generations. Why is Shepard's goal any more noble than Liara's?

You're saying, taking down the Collectors, who almost killed Kaidan and Ash, have taken 10's of thousands of humans, and are working for the reapers isn't noble?