50907 réponses à ce sujet

[TMA LIVE]

rynluna wrote...

Liara saved all of our asses from the Shadowbroker.  We'd all still be dead if it weren't for her.  So if she needs help taking down his agents, of course Shepard is going to help.  I think people on here don't give Liara enough credit.  Yeah, her character has changed a bit but it's been a long two years.  She witnessed her lover or very good friend killed and then proceeded to go after getting the body back and it wasn't easy.

Do people expect anyone who has gone through all that to be all happy bunnies and rainbows?? 

Yeah, but Shepard doesn't know that till later. Or he never does.

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Shepard doesn't know anything except "I want to kill this person, to kill that person". And if you read the data, the people that are on the hit list aren't even Shadow Broker agents. Instead, they are people the Observer is spying on. And you don't know the Observer is Liara's assistant till later. In the end, it's all vague and shady. And a merc goon at least is shooting at you. It's easier to tell he's a bad guy.

Right, and that's why trust plays a role.  If you don't trust Liara to begin with, you may worry that what she is doing is unjustified or immoral and not want to help her.

Shepard doesn't know anything about Sidonis, but agrees to follow Garrus across the galaxy to help track him down and exact vengeance on him.  Why?  Because Shepard trusts Garrus.

Modifié par jlb524, 17 juin 2010 - 08:13 .

[pf17456]

TMA LIVE wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Also, why is Liara wanting to kill a person, a person who is far from innocent, out of self defence and in order to further her goals so abhorrently bad? Isn't Shepard gunning down random Eclipse goon #234 on the way to recruiting Thane alot worse?

Shepard doesn't know anything except "I want to kill this person, to kill that person". And if you read the data, the people that are on the hit list aren't even Shadow Broker agents. Instead, they are people the Observer is spying on. And you don't know the Observer is Liara's assistant till later. In the end, it's all vague and shady. And a merc goon at least is shooting at you. It's easier to tell he's a bad guy.

I don't see this as being any different from the Garus loyality mission except that Liara's is yet to be completed.

[muskettman87]

TMA LIVE wrote...

rynluna wrote...

Liara saved all of our asses from the Shadowbroker.  We'd all still be dead if it weren't for her.  So if she needs help taking down his agents, of course Shepard is going to help.  I think people on here don't give Liara enough credit.  Yeah, her character has changed a bit but it's been a long two years.  She witnessed her lover or very good friend killed and then proceeded to go after getting the body back and it wasn't easy.

Do people expect anyone who has gone through all that to be all happy bunnies and rainbows?? 

Yeah, but Shepard doesn't know that till later. Or he never does.

The fact that Shepard could potentially not know about what she did it kind of irrelevent here. You know what happened, I know what happened, everyone on this thread knows what happened.

[jlb524]

I just think there is a difference between trusting someone that is working for themselves and of their own free-will, vs. trusting someone who is working for a know terrorist organization and may or may not be operating under their own free-will. Ash and Kaidan rightfully worry that Cerberus is influencing or even controlling Shepard. Liara is doing what she is doing for herself and all by herself.

[TMA LIVE]

pf17456 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Also, why is Liara wanting to kill a person, a person who is far from innocent, out of self defence and in order to further her goals so abhorrently bad? Isn't Shepard gunning down random Eclipse goon #234 on the way to recruiting Thane alot worse?

Shepard doesn't know anything except "I want to kill this person, to kill that person". And if you read the data, the people that are on the hit list aren't even Shadow Broker agents. Instead, they are people the Observer is spying on. And you don't know the Observer is Liara's assistant till later. In the end, it's all vague and shady. And a merc goon at least is shooting at you. It's easier to tell he's a bad guy.

I don't see this as being any different from the Garus loyality mission except that Liara's is yet to be completed.

I going to say this once. You're right, It's not different. I never said it was. I had a problem doing both. I did both. I stopped both from killing needlessly. But didn't like helping out with something that could be dirty, but did it anyways. I told both I had a problem with it. They both said they'd do it anyways. I then stopped them. They are the same, and my feeling are the same.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

I just think there is a difference between trusting someone that is working for themselves and of their own free-will, vs. trusting someone who is working for a know terrorist organization and may or may not be operating under their own free-will. Ash and Kaidan rightfully worry that Cerberus is influencing or even controlling Shepard. Liara is doing what she is doing for herself and all by herself.

She threaten to do the nasty with her mind on someone when you meet her. She then has you break the law and hack terminals if you ask. She then asks you to help kill someone. It's shady work in the end.

I don't feel like she'll betray me, but what she's asking me to do is a betrayal of my beliefs.

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

I going to say this once. You're right, It's not different. I never said it was. I had a problem doing both. I did both. I stopped both from killing needlessly. But didn't like helping out with something that could be dirty, but did it anyways. I told both I had a problem with it. They both said they'd do it anyways. I then stopped them. They are the same, and my feeling are the same.

So, your Shepard trusts Garrus more than Liara, basically?

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I just think there is a difference between trusting someone that is working for themselves and of their own free-will, vs. trusting someone who is working for a know terrorist organization and may or may not be operating under their own free-will. Ash and Kaidan rightfully worry that Cerberus is influencing or even controlling Shepard. Liara is doing what she is doing for herself and all by herself.

Especially as Liara reiterates time and time again that Shepard should trust her as a friend and lover. That's all she expects, and would never be so crass as to demand it. She only hopes that Shepard will respect her that much.

I cannot stress enough how different Horizon and Liara's scenes are. Ash and Kai express concern that
Cerberus is using the threat of a Reaper to manipulate Shepard into working for them. Liara insists that what she is doing is of her own free will, and asks Shepard to trust her that she's doing the right thing. They're wildly different.

They both say they're doing this of their own free will, and asks for help.

Anyways, I don't think Liara uses the word trust because she wanst Shepard to trust her. She more of saying, "I can't talk to you because everything I'm saying is being recorded, and used by some broker somewhere. It's not that I don't trust you. It's just that I can't talk."

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I going to say this once. You're right, It's not different. I never said it was. I had a problem doing both. I did both. I stopped both from killing needlessly. But didn't like helping out with something that could be dirty, but did it anyways. I told both I had a problem with it. They both said they'd do it anyways. I then stopped them. They are the same, and my feeling are the same.

So, your Shepard trusts Garrus more than Liara, basically?

Garrus didn't tell me he'd kill 5 people if I didn't help him kill Sidonis. He might just do that, but he'd never tell me that.

Also, if you asked me if I trust Garrus more then Liara, then yes, I do.

[TMA LIVE]

rynluna wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
She threaten to do the nasty with her mind on someone when you meet her. She then has you break the law and hack terminals if you ask. She then asks you to help kill someone. It's shady work in the end.

I don't feel like she'll betray me, but what she's asking me to do is a betrayal of my beliefs.

So does your belief system involve outing what Tali's father did with the Geth??  That was pretty unethical what he did.  I mean if you are going to pick on Liara and what she made you do and go against your beliefs, did you do the same thing for a whole bunch of other characters you encounter??

What did you do?

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

She threaten to do the nasty with her mind on someone when you meet her. She then has you break the law and hack terminals if you ask. She then asks you to help kill someone. It's shady work in the end.

I don't feel like she'll betray me, but what she's asking me to do is a betrayal of my beliefs.

But your beliefs allow you to gun down random merc goon #214?

I walk in the room, and he tries to gun me down.

[pf17456]

TMA LIVE wrote...

pf17456 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Also, why is Liara wanting to kill a person, a person who is far from innocent, out of self defence and in order to further her goals so abhorrently bad? Isn't Shepard gunning down random Eclipse goon #234 on the way to recruiting Thane alot worse?

Shepard doesn't know anything except "I want to kill this person, to kill that person". And if you read the data, the people that are on the hit list aren't even Shadow Broker agents. Instead, they are people the Observer is spying on. And you don't know the Observer is Liara's assistant till later. In the end, it's all vague and shady. And a merc goon at least is shooting at you. It's easier to tell he's a bad guy.

I don't see this as being any different from the Garus loyality mission except that Liara's is yet to be completed.

I going to say this once. You're right, It's not different. I never said it was. I had a problem doing both. I did both. I stopped both from killing needlessly. But didn't like helping out with something that could be dirty, but did it anyways. I told both I had a problem with it. They both said they'd do it anyways. I then stopped them. They are the same, and my feeling are the same.

So you recognize your friends are getting carried away with their anger but you wait till the time is right to intervene and either help them toward an 'R' or  'P'. Yes Shepard is troubled by Liara's attitude change as well but it doesn't change how Shepard feels, nor does it necessairly negate trust.

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Shepard doesn't know anything except "I want to kill this person, to kill that person". And if you read the data, the people that are on the hit list aren't even Shadow Broker agents. Instead, they are people the Observer is spying on. And you don't know the Observer is Liara's assistant till later. In the end, it's all vague and shady. And a merc goon at least is shooting at you. It's easier to tell he's a bad guy.

What.

They're referred to as "contacts". They're Shadow Broker agents.

The fact that the merc goon is shooting at you is irrelevant. He's a danger, the Observer is a danger. They're both dangers to Shepard/Liara's lives, but in differing ways.

Exactly, contacts. Like Feron. People that do buiness for the broker out of freelance.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 17 juin 2010 - 08:37 .

[Sunnie]

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I just think there is a difference between trusting someone that is working for themselves and of their own free-will, vs. trusting someone who is working for a know terrorist organization and may or may not be operating under their own free-will. Ash and Kaidan rightfully worry that Cerberus is influencing or even controlling Shepard. Liara is doing what she is doing for herself and all by herself.

She threaten to do the nasty with her mind on someone when you meet her. She then has you break the law and hack terminals if you ask. She then asks you to help kill someone. It's shady work in the end.

I don't feel like she'll betray me, but what she's asking me to do is a betrayal of my beliefs.

She is asking you to do things you may not feel are right, but the reason is clearly to combat the organisation that was in the middle of selling your sorry butt to the Collectors/Reapers. I'd say she deserves all the help Shep can give her, because without Liara and what she did, Shepard would have been part of the next reaper, or even the next Robo-Shep, Saren style.  She also askes you to help her find the undercover SB spy, she doesnt ask you to kill that target. And in doing that task you help Liara stay alive. Nyxeris was so well planted Liara would have been an easy assassination, and even says so.  Consider the reasons and suddenly it was not all so wrong...maybe?

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I walk in the room, and he tries to gun me down.

Observer is attempting to assassinate Liara. What's the difference?

We don't know that till later. And even then, we don't know what the Observer was suppose to do. If she was supposed to kill Liara, she wouldn't have seen it coming. But again, we don't know that till later, or if the Observer was going to kill her.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 17 juin 2010 - 08:41 .

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Also, if you asked me if I trust Garrus more then Liara, then yes, I do.

I think that's the bottom line...you (or your Shepard) just doesn't trust Liara that much.