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[Crimmsonwind]

Lizardviking wrote...

Crimmsonwind wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Crimmsonwind wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Crimmsonwind wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Any Shepard that gets pissed and yells at Liara for saving her life and handing her to Cerberus is a hypocritical and moronic jerkass, to be fair.

Or a hardline Renegade. Which is practically the same thing. >.>

Just because it's the lower option don't make it renegade.

I'm pretty sure you get renegade points for it, though.

Nope you don't. I'm pretty sure of that. Could replay to find out, but I don't feel like it.

Well I'll have to disagree with you about it not being renegade. When the only two options are "it's ok," and "it's all your fault," they seem to fit into either Paragon or Renegade IMO.

Renegade Shepard supports Cerberus. But is apperently angry at Liara for handing him over to them? Wait, what?!

Just because it's the lower option don't make it renegade. True renegade will mostly pick the lower option, but sometimes pick middle. Only taking the lower options lead to a VERY inconsistent character.

Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Dark_Helmet]

I can end your argument right now.

Neither of you picked that option and meant it.

So it doesn't matter.

Problem solved!

[Master Wolf]

Nerevar-as wrote...

You can choose in what areas you are Renegade, Lizardviking. Both Paragon and Renegade cover from Good to Evil to Empathic or Sarcastic to etc.
I think she Tried to justified herself there was no choice, can´t remember well. It´s in Youtube anyway.

Yes that's why I think that her hatred has more explanation in that dialoge what I understand is that she hate the SB for puting her in that situation where her only options are Collectors or Cerberus. 

Modifié par Master Wolf, 19 juin 2010 - 07:56 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Nerevar-as wrote...

You can choose in what areas you are Renegade, Lizardviking. Both Paragon and Renegade cover from Good to Evil to Empathic or Sarcastic to etc.
I think she Tried to justified herself there was no choice, can´t remember well. It´s in Youtube anyway.

I just don't see all of it as P/R. Some of the time when the dialog is about how you feel about something, then I just see the lower options as the negative feelings so to speak. Which isn't really renegade or paragon

"EDIT" Sorry. My gramma skills are low today.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 19 juin 2010 - 07:55 .

[Crimmsonwind]

Lizardviking wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

You can choose in what areas you are Renegade, Lizardviking. Both Paragon and Renegade cover from Good to Evil to Empathic or Sarcastic to etc.
I think she Tried to justified herself there was no choice, can´t remember well. It´s in Youtube anyway.

I just don't see all of it as P/R. Some of the time when the dialog is about how you feel about something, then I just see the lower options as the negative feelings so to speak. Which isn't really renegade or paragon

"EDIT" Sorry. My gramma skills are low today.

Which is totally ok. I pick "renegade" options when I feel like using a sarcastic or snarky remark. Humans are full of emotions, we're supposed to be somewhat conflicted and hypocritical.

[Nerevar-as]

Lizardviking wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

You can choose in what areas you are Renegade, Lizardviking. Both Paragon and Renegade cover from Good to Evil to Empathic or Sarcastic to etc.
I think she Tried to justified herself there was no choice, can´t remember well. It´s in Youtube anyway.

I just don't see all of it as P/R. Some of the time when the dialog is about how you feel about something, then I just see the lower options as the negative feelings so to speak. Which isn't really renegade or paragon

"EDIT" Sorry. My gramma skills are low today.

Kind of. But it ranges from sarcastic to complete monster depending on the situation (at least in ME2 there is some coherence with the amount, punching Manuel in ME1 was worse than some murders). Take it as how Shepard aproaches a situation, he can be emphatic or insensitive. I guess is the problem of reducing aligment to just two categories, The D&D way at least it´s clearer but doesn´t fit many Bioware characters either (Morrigan edits in TVTropes were frequent for example).

[Marcin K]

well, it's time to go OFFLINE overnight, cya all tomorrow here, i'll stick to the groups: http://social.biowar...on/6551/&p=3940 this and

http://social.biowar...iscussion/8202/ this for about an hour or so if you need me today:)

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Nerevar-as wrote...
Kind of. But it ranges from sarcastic to complete monster depending on the situation (at least in ME2 there is some coherence with the amount, punching Manuel in ME1 was worse than some murders). Take it as how Shepard aproaches a situation, he can be emphatic or insensitive. I guess is the problem of reducing aligment to just two categories, The D&D way at least it´s clearer but doesn´t fit many Bioware characters either (Morrigan edits in TVTropes were frequent for example).

But does how Shepard feel about something (in this case: Liara handing the body to cerberus) have anything to do with being renegade or paragon?

Let's say in ME3 there's a dialog where somebody ask Shepard.

"Do you like coca-cola?"

Top option: Yes!
Middle option: It's okay
Lower option: No! I hate it!!

Does how Shepard  feels about coca-cola have anything to do with being paragon or renegade? No. the only reason "No" is the lower option is because it's the negative reaction so to speak.

I know it's something of an extreme example to make. But it's true concerning the dialog tree and P/R.

[Nerevar-as]

Ah, I see your point. In other situations there was a R/P aproach to a P/R situation (Earthborn mission in ME1 or Intimidate instead of killing). So maybe there should have been a Paragon way of saying you didn´t aprove. It´s overcomplicating things too much at least for ME, I could see the DA devs doing it though.

[Crimmsonwind]

Yeah. If you start adding too many dialogue choices, you lose the neat little wheel and you're back to a Baldur's Gate number of choices. Which isn't a bad thing, but I like the wheel. D:

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Crimmsonwind wrote...

Yeah. If you start adding too many dialogue choices, you lose the neat little wheel and you're back to a Baldur's Gate number of choices. Which isn't a bad thing, but I like the wheel. D:

I'm not complaining. Just trying to prove my point that lower option does not equal renegade.

[Crimmsonwind]

Lizardviking wrote...

Crimmsonwind wrote...

Yeah. If you start adding too many dialogue choices, you lose the neat little wheel and you're back to a Baldur's Gate number of choices. Which isn't a bad thing, but I like the wheel. D:

I'm not complaining. Just trying to prove my point that lower option does not equal renegade.

Not always, no. But it depends on your character, and how you interpret renegade. Renegades don't necessarily have to agree with Cerberus. You could choose more paragon options to disagree with Cerberus, but you won't hesitate to kill someone with renegade options. To me a renegade is a jerk. To you a renegade is someone who agrees with Cerberus. So, I think it's a renegade move to tell Liara that it's her fault by picking the lower option. You don't because that's not how you feel, because you're not me. That's totally ok.

[Nerevar-as]

Renegade is not necessarily evil, and some evil choices can be done in a Paragon way. BW have been trying this since Jade Empire (at least with the Closed Fist explanation, execution was close to Epic Fail).

[WilliamShatner]

Crimmsonwind wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Crimmsonwind wrote...

Yeah. If you start adding too many dialogue choices, you lose the neat little wheel and you're back to a Baldur's Gate number of choices. Which isn't a bad thing, but I like the wheel. D:

I'm not complaining. Just trying to prove my point that lower option does not equal renegade.

Not always, no. But it depends on your character, and how you interpret renegade. Renegades don't necessarily have to agree with Cerberus. You could choose more paragon options to disagree with Cerberus, but you won't hesitate to kill someone with renegade options. To me a renegade is a jerk. To you a renegade is someone who agrees with Cerberus. So, I think it's a renegade move to tell Liara that it's her fault by picking the lower option. You don't because that's not how you feel, because you're not me. That's totally ok.

In the conversation with Ashley/Kaidan on Horizon you have to pick a renegade option to say you don't agree with Cerberus and aren't part of them.  That's bs right there.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

WilliamShatner wrote...
In the conversation with Ashley/Kaidan on Horizon you have to pick a renegade option to say you don't agree with Cerberus and aren't part of them.  That's bs right there.

Actuelly Shepard just say he don't answer to Cerberus. He doesn't say anything about agreeing with them.

[Nerevar-as]

It´s an Enemy Mine situation, they are the only ones with the will and means to help. Does not mean the moment Reapers are dealt with you´ll go for them.

[leeboi2]

Liaaaaaaaaaaaaraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Liara loves Shepdawg if they're paragon or renegade!

[WilliamShatner]

Lizardviking wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...
In the conversation with Ashley/Kaidan on Horizon you have to pick a renegade option to say you don't agree with Cerberus and aren't part of them.  That's bs right there.

Actuelly Shepard just say he don't answer to Cerberus. He doesn't say anything about agreeing with them.

You know what I mean. (I didn't memorise the game's script).  You have to pick a renegade to show you are not affliated/agreeing/being a puppet of/whater of Cerberus.  That's wrong.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

[quote]WilliamShatner wrote...

[/quote]

You know what I mean. (I didn't memorise the game's script).  You have to pick a renegade to show you are not affliated/agreeing/being a puppet of/whater of Cerberus.  That's wrong.

[/quote]

Well.  Just because he doesn't work for them. doesn't mean he not sharing the same agenda and whatnot.

But your right about a paragon taking this option as a way to say to the vimire survivor about not being a part of Cerberus. A renegade will say this a way to appear non-cerberus when the truth is they pretty much are furthering cerberus cause.

[Nerevar-as]

The only quests you must take are related to the Collectors. Doing sidequests helping Cerberus in other issues is up to you. A "Go to hell" response mail option would have been nice, and there´s also the issue Cerberus agenda often involves dealing with greater threats.



The weirdest Renegade points where rejecting Tali (which is way nicer than the ME1 equivalent) and Jack (either lovers or **** off? Who wrote that?). But we are going at puntual examples rather than overall mechanic. The same happened with some approvals in DA.

[TMA LIVE]

What does "BGG" stand for anyways? Best Galaxy Girlfriend?

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Beautiful Blue Goddess. Very apt!

Ah, k. Someone put a G instead of a B in the name I copied it from. Wondered if you ever thought of the idea of calling yourselves the The BBG Group, or BBG Supporters?