50907 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Liara could still be told. In fact we only see Liara in ME2 because we have too, a place that TIM tells us to go and Liara is there.

I always wondered if that was a setup (by Liara)...seems like too much of a coincidence.  There has to be tons of info brokers on Illium, ones that TIM/Miranda/Cerberus have been using for years and years and trust more than an upstart like Liara.

Perhaps Liara knew the Normandy was in the system and looking to dock someplace on Illium, so she used her influence to make sure the ship was docked at Nos Astra.  Then, she sends her 'welcoming committee' to point Shepard in her direction.

[jlb524]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Nice pun. ;-)

Liara's ME2 scenes are all about breaking through her emotional walls and barriers. It's just such a shame that when Liara does open up we aren't given the ability to comfort and console her, and reaffirm the romance and tell her everything will be okay. I wish that were possible!

I don't think all the walls and barriers are gone, though.  That's why the romance is still on hold.

[jtav]

I don't think Liara has moved on, if only because Bioware wouldn't do that. You'll get your option to continue the relationship in ME3. I do think that relationship is going to have to largely start at square one because they both have changed so much.

[Master Wolf]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Did`t Liara also argue with miri that they should not even try to bring Shepard back?

It's not quite as straightforward as that, though. It's more that after Miranda informs Liara that the damage to Shepard's corpse is even more extensive than they had feared, Liara worries if what Cerberus will do to Shepard will be any better than what the Collectors had intended to do with the corpse. It's concern for Shepard's own wellbeing.

I also think it's Liara lying to herself that she's doing it for Shepard's sake, rather than her own desire to see her rebuilt. She's putting up token resistence, but allows Cerberus to do so b/c she can't let Shepard go, as she says in-game.

This IMO is the reason why Liara feels guilt for handing the body. Because in a more cold analysis she should not be guilt at all for handing the body because Shepard is death even if they mutilated the body he would not feel anything and cerebus being able to save/rebuild Shepard is the only hope for the galaxy. So is a situation where you can win everytihng and you can't lose anything.

The problem for Liara is that she didn't handed the body because was the only hope for the galaxy but because she can't go on without Shepard, she is feelong guilt because she in a way she forced Shepard working with the enemy for what in her opinion were selfish reasons.

Modifié par Master Wolf, 28 juin 2010 - 06:20 .

[kraidy1117]

jlb524 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Liara could still be told. In fact we only see Liara in ME2 because we have too, a place that TIM tells us to go and Liara is there.

I always wondered if that was a setup (by Liara)...seems like too much of a coincidence.  There has to be tons of info brokers on Illium, ones that TIM/Miranda/Cerberus have been using for years and years and trust more than an upstart like Liara.

Perhaps Liara knew the Normandy was in the system and looking to dock someplace on Illium, so she used her influence to make sure the ship was docked at Nos Astra.  Then, she sends her 'welcoming committee' to point Shepard in her direction.

Welll we do see one of Miri's old contacts.....

[jlb524]

jtav wrote...

I don't think Liara has moved on, if only because Bioware wouldn't do that. You'll get your option to continue the relationship in ME3. I do think that relationship is going to have to largely start at square one because they both have changed so much.

Yeah, in that sense, none of the LIs have moved on, as you will have the chance to romance either Liara/Ash/Kaidan again in ME3 if you do so desire.

I don't think you will be in an active romance with them when the game begins, however, and you will have to re-romance them.  If you did take another ME2 LI, you will start off in an active romance with them and you can 'cheat' on them with the old crew, if you so desire.

[jlb524]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Welll we do see one of Miri's old contacts.....

Right, why not use trusted Cerberus info sources?  Why Liara?  I think Liara jumped in and intercepted the pass!

[Master Wolf]

If they go the way of the re-romance I fear that Liara's cold personality in ME2 wil not be considered just a mask to make her able to do the work she does but it will be considered as her real personality and the one in ME1 will be ignored. I would not like to see this happen.

[IndigoWolfe]

Master Wolf wrote...

If they go the way of the re-romance I fear that Liara's cold personality in ME2 wil not be considered just a mask to make her able to do the work she does but it will be considered as her real personality and the one in ME1 will be ignored. I would not like to see this happen.

I don't see another alternative other than going the re-romance path. As Liara said; it was a long two years. People do change, wether we like it or not. You can't just ignore the period of two years apart. Both of them will, in all likelihood, have to get to know each other again.

[Master Wolf]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Master Wolf wrote...

If they go the way of the re-romance I fear that Liara's cold personality in ME2 wil not be considered just a mask to make her able to do the work she does but it will be considered as her real personality and the one in ME1 will be ignored. I would not like to see this happen.

I don't see another alternative other than going the re-romance path. As Liara said; it was a long two years. People do change, wether we like it or not. You can't just ignore the period of two years apart. Both of them will, in all likelihood, have to get to know each other again.

Yes people change but I belive that Liara is strong enougth to not let what happened to her in this two change her from the caring and compassionate Liara in ME1 to  the Liara Benezia version 2.0, I hope that Liara will be changed in ME3 I just don't want a so radical change that will need for Shepard and Liara to get to know each ohter again.

[jlb524]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I often see this worry voiced by certain Liara fans that BW are somehow going to retcon her personality into the ruthless, more Renegade one we see in ME2. I really don't see that as being the case. From a meta perspective, look at some of Shepard's dialogue choices in ME2. "You've grown cold." "You're obsessed." "I've never seen you ready to execute someone in cold blood." "For a minute then I thought I was talking to Matriarch Benezia." <_< I hate that last one.

Anyway, as I said, looking at it from a meta perspective it's clear that we're encouraged to be taken aback and shocked by Liara's supposed change in ME2. That it's not something desirable, or what we should accept. It's supposed to be disconcerting and jarring to the player. To me, this shows that it's going to be something that we be able to be eased and rectified eventually, and Liara will be free of the guilt and pain that's causing all of this.

Good point.  There is no, 'Wooo hooo!  Go Liara!!!  Love your new personality.' option.

While I think she will have to be re-romanced in the sense that the relationship will start out rocky and Liara will still have her walls up at the beginning of ME3 and both Shep and Liara will have to get past this, etc. etc., I'm still not sure if she will be open to new players to romance.  It wouldn't make much sense to jump into the romance during the re-reconciliation period that will occur after the 'rocky second act'.  

I expect they will have new characters for new ME3 players to romance, in all honesty. 

[IndigoWolfe]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Remember peeps, if the "rocky second chapter" of the romance with the ME1 LIs is resolved in the story bridging DLC before ME3, then the re-romance route may not be a necessity after all. We could actually be treated to a proper third part of the romance, rather than a rehash of the first part.

Re-romance doesn't necessarily mean a rehash of the ME1 romance. A re-romance could also serve as a proper third part of the romance. It would depend of the writing.

What I mean when I say re-romance is taking a step back and trying to deal with whatever rifts that have grown between the two. In my mind, the worst thing that could happen is that in Mass Effect 3, Shepard and Liara's interactions for their overarching romance is "Oh, we're in a romance, we've had our problems but love shall conquer all!". I want some uncertainty to make a final resolution all the more rewarding.

[jlb524]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Remember peeps, if the "rocky second chapter" of the romance with the ME1 LIs is resolved in the story bridging DLC before ME3, then the re-romance route may not be a necessity after all. We could actually be treated to a proper third part of the romance, rather than a rehash of the first part.

Nah, I don't expect romance content in DLC.  This is important stuff, and they will take care of it in non-optional content.

The romance won't really be a rehash, at least in content.  Structurally, it may be a rehash of the past romance.  You start out not in a romance, talk to her, pick the right options, voila!  Now you are in the romance and you get a romance scene with her at the end.  The dialog and content of the romance will be completely different from ME1, though.

[IndigoWolfe]

jlb524 wrote...

I expect they will have new characters for new ME3 players to romance, in all honesty. 

Oh, of course. That's how Bioware roll. It would be rather unfair for new players to have the option of romance closed off to them.

Unless the previous ME1 LIs are independently available in Mass Effect 3.

[jlb524]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I still have hopes that we will receive what I consider to be the proper third part of a romance story, that of the development of the romance into something extremely deep and spiritual. The pair of them becoming soulmates and their relationship ascending to a whole new plane.

Yeah, that would be nice.   I know this is supposed to happen with the asari and their 'union'.   I wonder how an an asari and another become 'bondmates'?  Is it simply a verbal agreement, like how humans agree to 'go steady' with each other.  Is it legal, akin to human marriage in Western culture?   Or, does it have something to do with the melding?  Like, if you meld enough times with each other, you both become deeply connected and form the bond that makes you 'bondmates'.

[Master Wolf]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Master Wolf wrote...

If they go the way of the re-romance I fear that Liara's cold personality in ME2 wil not be considered just a mask to make her able to do the work she does but it will be considered as her real personality and the one in ME1 will be ignored. I would not like to see this happen.

I often see this worry voiced by certain Liara fans that BW are somehow going to retcon her personality into the ruthless, more Renegade one we see in ME2. I really don't see that as being the case. From a meta perspective, look at some of Shepard's dialogue choices in ME2. "You've grown cold." "You're obsessed." "I've never seen you ready to execute someone in cold blood." "For a minute then I thought I was talking to Matriarch Benezia." <_< I hate that last one.

Anyway, as I said, looking at it from a meta perspective it's clear that we're encouraged to be taken aback and shocked by Liara's supposed change in ME2. That it's not something desirable, or what we should accept. It's supposed to be disconcerting and jarring to the player. To me, this shows that it's going to be something that we be able to be eased and rectified eventually, and Liara will be free of the guilt and pain that's causing all of this.

I also don't belive that this is what will happen but this IMO is the only thing that wil justify a re-romance.
I belive that we will be able to confort Liara to ease her pain, show to Liara that she can be happy again with Shepard,that she doesn't need to keep her barriers up that she can let her true personality surface again,that she doesn't need any more masks, I also hope that we will be able to show that Shepard love for Liara as only became stronger, and the things will be diferent sure but they will be even beter than they were before.

Modifié par Master Wolf, 28 juin 2010 - 07:06 .

[Master Wolf]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

To be honest, I want the "rocky second chapter" of Liara's romance to be resolved as soon as possible. That way, as I've said before, we can proceed with the third chapter of the romance in which the relationship between Shepard and Liara deepens into something truly deep and spiritual, the pair of them reaffirming their connection and love to each other and forging their unbreaking and powerful bond. Have them become true soulmates.

I totaly agree.

Modifié par Master Wolf, 28 juin 2010 - 07:16 .