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Support Liara T'Soni for ME3 - Squadmate and LI


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#44626
Master Wolf

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One thing that I don't understand about Liara's hunt is why she stays in just one place that's very dangerous after all if the SB gets desperate he has the resources to send a army after her I think that it would make more sense if Liara took an aproach to her hunt similar to the aproach the SB has with his business Liara will hunt the SB from the shadows without nobody knowing her true identety more or less like Garrus in Omega nobody knows who he realy is I think that Liara hunting the SB in such open way is very dangerous.

Modifié par Master Wolf, 04 août 2010 - 10:23 .


#44627
jlb524

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Master Wolf wrote...

One thing that I don't understand about Liara's hunt is why she stays in just one place that's very dangerous after all if the SB gets desperate he has the resources to send a army after her I think that it would make more sense if Liara took an aproach to her hunt similar to the aproach the SB has with his business Liara will hunt the SB from the shadows without nobody knowing her true identety more or less like Garrus in Omega nobody knows who he realy is I think that Liara hunting the SB in such open way is very dangerous.


I don't know...perhaps she does move around, from office to office?  Though, the SB obviously knows Liara is where she is now, as Nyxeris was sent to spy on her.

Something is just fishy....you would think the SB would easily be able to wipe out an upstart, no matter how powerful and intelligent they were.  Instead, the SB is just spying on her, probably playing her.

#44628
Master Wolf

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jlb524 wrote...

I don't know...perhaps she does move around, from office to office?  Though, the SB obviously knows Liara is where she is now, as Nyxeris was sent to spy on her.

Something is just fishy....you would think the SB would easily be able to wipe out an upstart, no matter how powerful and intelligent they were.  Instead, the SB is just spying on her, probably playing her.


One thing that I thought is that perhaps the SB is keeping Liara alive to later use her against Shepard like TIM said the collectors are looking for people related to Shepard that's why they atacked Horizon by keeping her under obeservation the SB could use her any time Shepard became too much problem for his masters (reapers) or perhaps cerberus is keeping Liara safe like it's said in game cerberus take care of their own.

I hope that we don't find out that the SB have been playing Liara that would make very sad although for what we have saw that's the most likely scenario IMO.

#44629
jlb524

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Yeah, the SB might be using Liara to get to Shepard again. I worry that Liara will be leading Shep and crew into a trap set up by the SB in this DLC.

#44630
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*

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Serious? Don't you believe that Liara would be aware that she was being manipulated in that manner, and act accordingly?

#44631
kraidy1117

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Serious? Don't you believe that Liara would be aware that she was being manipulated in that manner, and act accordingly?


Not if she is focused too much on vengance.

#44632
Master Wolf

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Serious? Don't you believe that Liara would be aware that she was being manipulated in that manner, and act accordingly?


She wasn't aware of Nyxeris  and she have been give her information what if the targets that Nyxeris have been given to Liara has in fact SB enemies and not his agents that would mean that Liara have been doing the SB job and that would make me sad and very furious.

Modifié par Master Wolf, 04 août 2010 - 11:48 .


#44633
Master Wolf

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jlb524 wrote...

Yeah, the SB might be using Liara to get to Shepard again. I worry that Liara will be leading Shep and crew into a trap set up by the SB in this DLC.


If this was the last DLC to bridge the ME2 and ME3 i would say that this DLC would end with Shepard being captured by the SB and this will prepare the begining of ME3 where Liara would rescue Shepard.

Modifié par Master Wolf, 04 août 2010 - 11:46 .


#44634
jlb524

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Serious? Don't you believe that Liara would be aware that she was being manipulated in that manner, and act accordingly?


We are talking about the Shadow Broker...one sneaky little devil.  I know Liara is really smart and awesome, but the SB has been doing this for many many years and is very good at it.

#44635
jlb524

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Master Wolf wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Yeah, the SB might be using Liara to get to Shepard again. I worry that Liara will be leading Shep and crew into a trap set up by the SB in this DLC.


If this was the last DLC to bridge the ME2 and ME3 i would say that this DLC would end with Shepard being captured by the SB and this will prepare the begining of ME3 where Liara would rescue Shepard.


I like that idea too, but since it isn't the last story DLC (I think), and if it is indeed a trap, the trap will just not work and the plan would completely blow up in the SB's face (if he/she/it even has one :P).

#44636
Dark Star

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Master Wolf wrote...

One thing that I don't understand about Liara's hunt is why she stays in just one place that's very dangerous after all if the SB gets desperate he has the resources to send a army after her I think that it would make more sense if Liara took an aproach to her hunt similar to the aproach the SB has with his business Liara will hunt the SB from the shadows without nobody knowing her true identety more or less like Garrus in Omega nobody knows who he realy is I think that Liara hunting the SB in such open way is very dangerous.



Staying in one place doesn't seem quite as dangerous if you think that she can easily make herself disappear.  Take Morinth for example.  Sure, she was on the run a lot, but from what I gathered in ME2, she stayed in one place for months at a time until Samara learned of her location.  Liara seems very well connected, and with her resourcefullness I don't think it would be difficult for her to find a place to lay low for a time while she continued her hunt.

Whether or not hunting the SB from the shadows would be more efficient/effective/better option, I really can't say. 

#44637
Master Wolf

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Dark Star wrote...

Staying in one place doesn't seem quite as dangerous if you think that she can easily make herself disappear.  Take Morinth for example.  Sure, she was on the run a lot, but from what I gathered in ME2, she stayed in one place for months at a time until Samara learned of her location.  Liara seems very well connected, and with her resourcefullness I don't think it would be difficult for her to find a place to lay low for a time while she continued her hunt.

Whether or not hunting the SB from the shadows would be more efficient/effective/better option, I really can't say. 


But look what happened to Morinth she was caught by suprise because Samara knew where she was the same thing could happen to Liara I think that would be more safe and beter for Liara to hunt the SB from the shadows because this way the SB would not have a target and he would not be able to infiltrate someone so close to Liara because he would not know who was hunting him. Take the SB example his best deffense is the fact that nobody knows who he is and where he is I think that it would be beter if Liara had done the same when she started to hunt the SB she would keep everything about her and her hunt in the dark.

Modifié par Master Wolf, 05 août 2010 - 02:47 .


#44638
Dark Star

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Master Wolf wrote...


But look what happened to Morinth she was caught by suprise because Samara knew where she was the same thing could happen to Liara I think that would be more safe and beter for Liara to hunt the SB from the shadows because this way the SB would not have a target and he would not be able to infiltrate someone so close to Liara because he would not know who was hunting him. Take the SB example his best deffense is the fact that nobody knows who he is and where he is I think that it would be beter if Liara had done the same when she started to hunt the SB she would keep everything about her and her hunt in the dark.



And it took 400 years for Samara to catch Morinth.  But anyhow, do you think Liara would even be able to hunt from the shadows?  I mean the SB's business is centered around information, so even if Liara were to hide, the SB would likely find out quickly.

In either case, she's not hunting from the shadows, so we can blame BioWare for that :P

#44639
Master Wolf

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Dark Star wrote...

And it took 400 years for Samara to catch Morinth.  But anyhow, do you think Liara would even be able to hunt from the shadows?  I mean the SB's business is centered around information, so even if Liara were to hide, the SB would likely find out quickly.

In either case, she's not hunting from the shadows, so we can blame BioWare for that :P


But the fact that Samara always know where Morinth was made her be always in the run in Liara case she can't do that because if she is always in the run she can't hunt the SB and in Liara case the fact that the SB knows who she is and where she is made it possible to infiltrate someone very close to her.  Yes I think that Liara would be able to hunt the SB from the shadows even the SB would not know who is hunting him if she don't let anyone know her identity but even if he knows who is hunting him if she kept herself in the shadows will always be more difficult for him to find her or even  try anything against her. This is just my idea.

Yeah she his not hunting the SB from the shadows but it would be more cool if she was.Image IPB

Modifié par Master Wolf, 05 août 2010 - 04:10 .


#44640
jlb524

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I don't think it matters how or from where she is hunting him...the SB knows all!



The odd thing is that the SB seems to be letting Liara do her thing.


#44641
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Serious? Don't you believe that Liara would be aware that she was being manipulated in that manner, and act accordingly?


It's a theory that's been brought up a few times now in this thread. It is possible that the SB is working (either directly or indirectly) for the Reapers and is currently being passive and waiting for Liara to finish her hunt for him. Only so that when Liara and Shepard arrives at the SB base they find themselves surrounded by evil Reaper henchmen who's sole purpose is to capture Shepard again and bring him to the Reapers.  Imagine how broken Liara will be when she realised that Shepard got captured because of her and she's unknowingly been manipulated this entire time.

The theory it self seems somewhat implausiable because the Liara-DLC seems not the only post suicide mission DLC which will be released

#44642
Nerdage

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jlb524 wrote...

Master Wolf wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Yeah, the SB might be using Liara to get to Shepard again. I worry that Liara will be leading Shep and crew into a trap set up by the SB in this DLC.


If this was the last DLC to bridge the ME2 and ME3 i would say that this DLC would end with Shepard being captured by the SB and this will prepare the begining of ME3 where Liara would rescue Shepard.


I like that idea too, but since it isn't the last story DLC (I think), and if it is indeed a trap, the trap will just not work and the plan would completely blow up in the SB's face (if he/she/it even has one :P).

SB: "Right men, once Shepard is over by that conspicuously placed cover, then we attack in waves of 4 or 5."
*Fighting starts*
SB: "Oh no, wait, bad idea..."

#44643
Dinkamus_Littlelog

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Lizardviking wrote...

The theory it self seems somewhat implausiable because the Liara-DLC seems not the only post suicide mission DLC which will be released


Yeah, while I think the probability that this may not even be post suicide mission "bridging DLC", or even if it is that it wont be the last rules it out, its still an okay idea.

Really though, Im hesitent to put too much into the SB at the moment. Its one of the reasons why this DLCs execution needs to be the right kind. There are far too many unanswered questions, and I never once thought the SB arc would be put to bed in a DLC (as some marketing comments have suggested). If thats the case, you cant do that effectively if youre spending most of the time shooting. Either the SB isnt as important to the galaxy as the first game made out (very likely if the SB is taken out in this DLC - DLC not everyone will play), or Bioare is really going to be firing on all cylinders with this DLC, and it will be a huge DLC with lots of dialogue, almost getting close to a full on expansion.

#44644
Pwnisher

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Hopefully this SB DLC explains everything we wanted to know about the SB, especially if we kill it at the end of the DLC.

#44645
Master Wolf

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jlb524 wrote...

I don't think it matters how or from where she is hunting him...the SB knows all!

The odd thing is that the SB seems to be letting Liara do her thing.


He didin't know about Liara atack on his base when she was rescuing Shepard body(I think) .Image IPB

But I agree it's odd that the SB don't seams to care much about Liara and her hunt.

#44646
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Last night, I was discussing Liara's ME2 characterisation with J and I proposed that, in hindsight, her current character arc is not quite so unexpected or forced as it at first seems. She wanted me to repost my theories and what I suggested here.

First of all, prior to meeting Shepard on Therum, Liara had always enjoyed a somewhat comfortable lifestyle. As the only daughter of a powerful, influential and renowned Matriarch, the hardships Liara would have endured in her life so far would have limited to difficulties with her social interactions. It is very likely that she was ostracised from her peers due to the fact that she is a Matriarch's daughter, and also because she happens to be a pureblood which, as we all know, are subjected to discrimination in asari society. Aside from that, Liara has led a somewhat comfortable, easy lifestyle. Benezia was very wealthy, and possessed alot of political clout. Accordingly, Liara's needs as a child would have been well catered to.

Now, consider what happens when Liara meets Shepard on Therum. Suddenly, she is violently torn away from the comfortable life she has always known. Although Liara does possess some combat experience through fighting off roving bands of mercenaries or privateers, or hostile indigenous lifeforms whilst on remote digsites, Liara has no experience of being involved in warfare whilst serving with the military. Upon joining the Normandy, Liara would have become acquainted with Alliance soldiers, a seasoned krogan mercenary and a turian C-Sec agent. This already begins the process of Liara being exposed to the darker, seedier side to the galaxy. As I mentioned before, Liara has only ever had experience fighting off seemingly benign enemies whilst working as an archaeologist. Upon joining Shepard's squad, Liara is almost immediately exposed to aspects of the galaxy and it's inhabitants that, although she is aware of, has never experienced firsthand.

Furthermore, Liara has dedicated half of her life to studying the Protheans and embraced science and archaeology in order to do so. In addition, Liara's passion for the Protheans has existed for even longer, likely since she were a child. Liara has always viewed the Protheans as being wonderous, magical and mysterious. The Protheans have been the object of Liara's devotion for most of her life, likely since she were a child as I said before. However, during her travels with Shepard Liara learns of the true nature of their fate. It is revealed to her that the Protheans, the entity that Liara has always held in the highest regard and that have been a source of wonderment for her, were systematically butchered and wiped out. Brutally extinguished, eradicated. Wiped from existence. Considering the fact that Liara has always seen the Protheans as being magical, wonderous people, it is likely that this revelation would have affected Liara a great deal. It may have even resulted in her questioning her very ideals and beliefs, and ultimately it would have been very upsetting for her to learn of the true nature of the fate of the Protheans. The figures that Liara has dedicated half of her life to studying, that have been the source of her passion and devotion for the majority of her life so far, subjected to methodical genocide? Horrifying stuff.

Additionally, Liara simultaneously learns of the perpetrators of the aforementioned genocide. The Reapers. A hyper-advanced race of AI warships that are seemingly invincible, and that have exterminated all sapient life in the galaxy many, many times over. She also learns that said machine race also manipulate and control the growth of galactic civilization in order to facilitate each of their invasions of the galaxy. Nightmarish, and is again something that would have had a profound effect of Liara. The fact that she does not allow it to affect her to any significant degree during the events of ME1 is testament to her emotinal strength and resilience. Liara also happens to share the visions experienced by Shepard that were induced by the Prothean beacons. She happens to witness, firsthand, just how the Reapers methodically and brutally wipe out organic species, and the horror and gravity of the situation. Truly upsetting, chilling, disturbing and nightmarish stuff.

There is also the actions of Benezia, which would also have a significant effect of Liara. She is forced to watch on helplessly as her mother painfully succumbs to the horrifying effects of indoctrination, and perishes as a result. Although Liara was somewhat estranged from her mother, the two still loved each other very deeply and it is likely that Benezia was the only person in Liara's life that she had even grown close to so far. To see her mother die in absolute agony, brainwashed and no longer in control of her own actions is something that would have ultimately disturbed and upset Liara deeply. Although she is able to overcome her grief soon after confronting Benezia on Noveria, Liara still grieves for her mother. This is, of course, again testament to Liara's emotional strength and resilience. However, her mother's truly horrifying death is something that would have had a profound effect on Liara.

These are just some of the emotional hardships that Liara is subjected to during the events of ME1, before ME2 even begins and she loses the person she loves during the Collector attack on the Normandy. What I am getting at is that, in hindsight, Liara's character development and her character arc featured in ME2 may not have been so unforeseen and forced as some people believe. It is not unreasonable to believe that Liara's "Break the Cutie", in which a happy, contented character is systemically subjected to a large amount of emotional hardships in order to facilitate character development, had already began as soon as she had left Therum in ME1. Therefore, in retrospect, I believe that the player can look back at alot of the events surrounding Liara in ME1 as possible foreshadowing of her character development as featured in ME2. Her lost idealism and naivety, as well as Liara's new jaded cynicism and somewhat more depressed, anguished and deeply unhappy personality development may have been developing all the way back in ME1. Although Liara was able to endure alot of the pain she was subjected to in ME1, there is an emotional pain threshold for everybody and the further emotional torment that she experienced post-ME1 may have been too much for Liara to be able to withstand without any effect on her psyche when added to what she has already suffered with in ME1.

To summarise, what I am basically suggesting is that what some believe to be forced character development for Liara in ME2, and that it seems to come out of left field, may not be true after all when looking back at the events of ME1, and the resulting effects on Liara, in retrospect. Of course, the execution in ME2 needs some serious work and Liara's ME2 character is in dire need of exposition and elaboration, but it may not be as unforeseen as some believe. It may have always been the writing team's intention that Liara suffer in this manner, and becomes somewhat more jaded and cynical in ME2 as a progression of her character.

#44647
jlb524

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Master Wolf wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I don't think it matters how or from where she is hunting him...the SB knows all!

The odd thing is that the SB seems to be letting Liara do her thing.


He didin't know about Liara atack on his base when she was rescuing Shepard body(I think) .Image IPB

But I agree it's odd that the SB don't seams to care much about Liara and her hunt.


No, it seems the SB didn't know about the attack on the base, which is odd.  Unless the SB was really playing the Collectors the whole time, and wanted Liara to take the body?  IDK...it's odd.

#44648
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I hope that the SB's seeming indifference to Liara, planting Nyxeris as a double agent aside, does not turn out to be a plothole. I want an interesting story reason behind it!

#44649
jlb524

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Lizardviking wrote...

It's a theory that's been brought up a few times now in this thread. It is possible that the SB is working (either directly or indirectly) for the Reapers and is currently being passive and waiting for Liara to finish her hunt for him. Only so that when Liara and Shepard arrives at the SB base they find themselves surrounded by evil Reaper henchmen who's sole purpose is to capture Shepard again and bring him to the Reapers.  Imagine how broken Liara will be when she realised that Shepard got captured because of her and she's unknowingly been manipulated this entire time.

The theory it self seems somewhat implausiable because the Liara-DLC seems not the only post suicide mission DLC which will be released


Yeah, the old version of the theory (which thought that the Liara DLC might be the last DLC) would have had Shepard getting captured, explaining why there was to be a skills reset at the beginning of ME3.

I think it's still plausible that the SB is setting up a trap for Shepard, it's just no longer plausible that Shepard will get captured.  The plan will horribly backfire on the SB.

#44650
bjdbwea

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What you're doing there, Les, is basically the writer's job. They present you with a badly written scene, and you come up with your own interpretation to make sense of it. While your reasoning may make sense, it doesn't change the fact that if it was the reasoning of the writers too (which I doubt, I doubt they've put much thought into it at all), it has to be in the game. If you for whatever reason can't be bothered to invest the effort, then you don't force such drastic changes on an important character in the first place.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 05 août 2010 - 02:19 .