50907 réponses à ce sujet

[JamieCOTC]

Why isn't the SB hunting Liara? IMHO, it's because she is the bait for the one thing he needs most - Shepard. Come LotSB, he may even pull an Emperor Palpatine and "allow" Liara to find him, knowing she will bring Shepard.

[Master Wolf]

jlb524 wrote...

Master Wolf wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I don't think it matters how or from where she is hunting him...the SB knows all!

The odd thing is that the SB seems to be letting Liara do her thing.

He didin't know about Liara atack on his base when she was rescuing Shepard body(I think) .

But I agree it's odd that the SB don't seams to care much about Liara and her hunt.

No, it seems the SB didn't know about the attack on the base, which is odd.  Unless the SB was really playing the Collectors the whole time, and wanted Liara to take the body?  IDK...it's odd.

If the SB was playing th collectors then the fact that he don't do nothing against Liara could be explained byt the fact that he never intended to help the reapers but he is still trying to get information about them that's why he let Liara belive that he is the enemie but don't do nothing against her and in the future it will be reveled that everything that he has donne was to help fight the reapers wich will lead to the scenario with the SB as Shepard ally.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

bjdbwea wrote...

They present you with a badly written scene, and you come up with your own interpretation to make sense of it. While your reasoning may make sense, it doesn't change the fact that if it was the reasoning of the writers too (which I doubt, I doubt they've put much thought into it at all), it has to be in the game.

I completely agree with this. We could sit here and put a pleasant spin on Liaras character all day long, but thats fanfiction.

What is in the game is a barely coherent mess that plays next to no part in ME2.

Maybe this DLC will be a great way of repairing what was done, but to put it simply, Liara wasnt important to ME2 (we have been told she is important to ME3 instead, but well see how much truth is in that - particularly after this DLC is released).

Its probably worth paying attention to the nuances of Liaras character when we actually start seeing some significant effort being put in again, rather than just "here is why Liara cant join you in ME2". If it comes good in ME3, great, we have a stepping stone. Not a very interesting one that added anything really positive to the character, but if it kept Liaras place in ME3 as a squadmate where there CAN be such things, okay thats fine and Im okay with that.

Just a question of if it will or not.

[jlb524]

That was a well thought out post, Les. Liara would approve of the care you put into it.



The writing was bad for Liara in ME2, most indeedy. I think Les' main point is that, while the execution of Liara's ME2 characterization was poor, it is not entirely OOC, given a slightly different interpretation of her ME1 character.

[Master Wolf]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

What you're doing there, Les, is basically the writer's job. They present you with a badly written scene, and you come up with your own interpretation to make sense of it. While your reasoning may make sense, it doesn't change the fact that if it was the reasoning of the writers too (which I doubt, I doubt they've put much thought into it at all), it has to be in the game. If you for whatever reason can't be bothered to invest the effort, then you don't force such drastic changes on an important character in the first place.

Maybe, and I did say that alot of Liara's ME2 characterisation and her current story arc in general is in dire need of further elaboration and exposition. However, I am merely suggesting that a significant aspect of her character development as depicted in ME2 may not be quite so unforseen and unexpected as some people believe, especially when taking a retrospective look back at the events of ME1.

Your explanation is a good one although I don't agree with some points but in general I agree with it however if like you said all that Liara has gone through since she has meet Shepard have being a preparation for what would happen in ME2 it's not only in ME2 that there is a problem the problem is also in ME1 because in ME1 we don't see any litle sign that the things that Liara is experiencing are affecting her in such a negative way specialy after her mother death where we see that although Liara is sad she don't seam to have any aparent scar in her personality because of that.

Modifié par Master Wolf, 05 août 2010 - 02:36 .

[bjdbwea]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Maybe, and I did say that alot of Liara's ME2 characterisation and her current story arc in general is in dire need of further elaboration and exposition. However, I am merely suggesting that a significant aspect of her character development as depicted in ME2 may not be quite so unforseen and unexpected as some people believe, especially when taking a retrospective look back at the events of ME1.

Yes, as you showed, with hindsight her development is a possible one. But it was presented very badly. Personally, I would have liked if she had remained the Liara from ME 1, as a companion of course. You could still find enough ways to make her story interesting. But of course, if I had to decide, Shepard would never have died either, and the whole story would have been very different.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 05 août 2010 - 02:34 .

[jlb524]

Master Wolf wrote...

Your explanation is a good one although I don't agree with some points but in general I agree with it however if like you said all that Liara has gone through since she has meet Shepard have being a preparation for what would happen in ME2 it's not only in ME2 that there is a problem the problem is also in ME1 because in ME1 we don't see any litle sign that the things that Liara is experiencing are affecting her in such a negative way specialy after her mother death where we see that although Liara is sad she don't seam to have any aparent scar in her personality because of that.

That's true, though Liara also seems to be a very private person, and may not allow people to see these things.  Just look at how long it takes her to open up to Shepard in ME2.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

I think ME3 will perhaps tell us, not just about Liara but the entire series, exactly how much effort was really put into ME2. Was it really a legitimate attempt at a sequel, or more of a shooter game that throws in a little foreshadow to in some small way justify the title? Or will it show that, even with how little ME2 really achieved, the devs have actually had most of this planned out since the beginning, rather than making it up as they go along in most respects other than the general storyline arc?

For example, will killing off Shepard and ruining the end of ME1 actually turn out to be something they look to have planned from the beginning of the trilogy, or just a crappy reset they flung together at the last minute, explaining why its quickly ignored, and subsequently left to look idiotic throughout the rest of ME2?

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 05 août 2010 - 02:45 .

[Master Wolf]

jlb524 wrote...

That's true, though Liara also seems to be a very private person, and may not allow people to see these things.  Just look at how long it takes her to open up to Shepard in ME2.

Liara is a private person but that kind of things shows because it starts to in slow way to afect people and change them but I think that in ME2 Liara take a lot of time to open to Shepard because she is afraid that he will hater the fact that she is a privete person might play a part in it but IMO the major part is because of her fear that Shepard will hate her.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

I think ME3 will perhaps tell us, not just about Liara but the entire series, exactly how much effort was really put into ME2. Was it really a legitimate attempt at a sequel, or more of a shooter game that throws in a little foreshadow to in some small way justify the title? Or will it show that, even with how little ME2 really achieved, the devs have actually had most of this planned out since the beginning, rather than making it up as they go along in most respects other than the general storyline arc?

For example, will killing off Shepard and ruining the end of ME1 actually turn out to be something they look to have planned from the beginning of the trilogy, or just a crappy reset they flung together at the last minute, explaining why its quickly ignored, and subsequently left to look idiotic throughout the rest of ME2?

That is pretty much the reason why I look foward to ME3. Once we play it, we can find out if the ME2 story truly deserve all the hate it does right now (from me and a few others). Or was it all part of a greater scheme that just wasn't excecuted very well?

[jlb524]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

That's true, though Liara also seems to be a very private person, and may not allow people to see these things.  Just look at how long it takes her to open up to Shepard in ME2.

This too. After all, it is revealed in ME1 that Liara grieved in private after Benezia died. To me, that indicates that Liara, due to her reserved and introverted personality, may not wish for others to see when she is emotionally vulnerable.

Indeed. 

Yeah, that seems to be correct.

The problem with Liara's current character, I think, is that they tried to do too much in a very small cameo.  Her character needs more attention, period.  There is still enough there for fans, such as yourself, to come up with interesting theories and interpretations.   However, when they get around to finally giving Liara's character the attention it needs and deserves, how they develop her character may be contrary to what you suggest...or not.

Right now, there's definitely nothing to contradict your analysis on the last page, Les, and it makes sense.  We will see come LotSB if it still makes sense

[jlb524]

Master Wolf wrote...

Liara is a private person but that kind of things shows because it starts to in slow way to afect people and change them but I think that in ME2 Liara take a lot of time to open to Shepard because she is afraid that he will hater the fact that she is a privete person might play a part in it but IMO the major part is because of her fear that Shepard will hate her.

But she's reluctant to really talk about Benezia too, either before her death or after.  We do know Benezia's death upsets her, from her reaction to it on Noveria.

[Master Wolf]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Yeah, but like I said, it is entirely possible that the effects of Liara's grief, anguish and emotional pain as we see in ME2 are a cumulative effect of everything that has happened to her across both games. Everyone has a pain threshold, physically, mentally and emotionally, and it could be that the entirety of Liara's suffering for the duration of ME1, coupled with what happens to her after the destruction of the Normandy, culminates in her pain manifesting itself at last, as we see in ME2. After suffering so much and enduring so much pain ever since she left Therum, Liara is no longer able prevent her grief from affecting her actions.

Like I said that makes sense but the kind of change it's not something that happens from one moment to the other that kind of change starts and goes progresing and the changes starts to be viseble to other persons but in ME1 we don't see any clue that everything that happened is having a negative effect on Liara and that's what IMO is lacking some small indication that the events are indeed affecting Liara because in ME1 for what we see I would say that Liara have gone throught all that without any emotional scar so if they intended to use all that happened to Liara as justificaation for her change they shoul have put clues in ME1 that the events are starting to affect Liara.

[Master Wolf]

jlb524 wrote...

But she's reluctant to really talk about Benezia too, either before her death or after.  We do know Benezia's death upsets her, from her reaction to it on Noveria.

I don't say she is not a private person I say that in ME2 for her main reason for not open with Shepard is because of her fear that he would hate her after all she and Shepard have melded for what Liara explained in ME1 I don't think that Liara would have a problem in open herself with Shepard if not for her fear after all she shared everything she was with Shepard when she melded with him.

Modifié par Master Wolf, 05 août 2010 - 03:01 .

[jlb524]

I guess it comes down to this....either Les' explanation is spot on but the execution by the writers was horrible, or Les is off the mark. 

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Lizardviking wrote...

That is pretty much the reason why I look foward to ME3. Once we play it, we can find out if the ME2 story truly deserve all the hate it does right now (from me and a few others). Or was it all part of a greater scheme that just wasn't excecuted very well?

Yeah, I do agree, as much as I detest ME2s story and its characterisation of Shepard etc. etc.

Its never going to fix it fully. No matter how good ME3 is, ME is always going to be a "nice series, shame about the second act" trilogy to me. ME2 will always suck. Its just a question of if it was a necessary kind of suck, or just a careless, greedy, "they just screwed it up when they had such a good start" kind of suck.

Just like with the Liara role in ME2, is it going to be a necessary part of making certain transitions from ME1 to ME3, or just one big, poorly thought out waste of time?

[jlb524]

Master Wolf wrote...

I don't say she is not a private person I say that in ME2 for at least her main reason for not open with Shepard is because of her fear that he would hate her after all she and Shepard have melded for what Liara explained in ME1 I don't think that Liara would have a problem in open herself with Shepard if not for her fear after all she shared everything she was with Shepard when she melded with him.

I'm not trying to compare her ME1 reasons to her ME2 reasons...ME2 is far more complicated.


I just don't think it's easy for her to put her feelings and emotions into words, as I assume, she probably has never been close enough to someone and has never had the experience with doing such, and has probably never felt the desire to do so.  I see her as being somewhat stoic.